How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? (Please, any adivce appreciated)
- Status
Awkward sentence. Sorry. Surely you don’t believe that Luther thought confession wasunnecessary
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
I followed my own advice yesterday and went to my Lutheran pastor for Confession and Absolution. Wow! The knowledge that God not only forgives me, but is always forgiving me and is eager for me to be in a right relationship with Him is awe- inspiring! I felt clean and as fresh as if I were baptized yesterday. Thanks be to God for the sacrament of Confession!
AmenI followed my own advice yesterday and went to my Lutheran pastor for Confession and Absolution. Wow! The knowledge that God not only forgives me, but is always forgiving me and is eager for me to be in a right relationship with Him is awe- inspiring! I felt clean and as fresh as if I were baptized yesterday. Thanks be to God for the sacrament of Confession!
V
Vonsalza
Guest
That wasn’t the targeted juxtaposition.
What was would be Itwin’s use of “sorrow” and Luther’s use of “bold”.
I still don’t see it. How are you understanding Luther’s use of the word bold?
I don’t see it as somehow opposite of sad. I see it as the opposite of timid. Don’t be reluctant to preach mercy.
C
Contarini
Guest
This sort of thing is one of the huge problems with Catholicism. I struggle against it all the time since becoming Catholic in April. It’s called “scrupulosity.” It’s what led to Luther’s radical theology, since it drove Luther himself crazy. (Catholics sometimes blame Luther’s alleged psychological problems for this–but a brief look at these forums shows that many, many people struggle with the same thing.)
First of all, consent for mortal sin has to be fully deliberate. Just entertaining a thought for an instant probably does not count. You can’t get too hung up on this–we all have all kinds of thoughts flying through our heads. Probably it was venially, not mortally sinful.
Secondly, according to Catholic teaching anyone who has “perfect contrition” is forgiven. Perfect contrition is a confusing term–it doesn’t mean “as sorry as you possibly could be” but “genuinely sorry because you love God and not just out of fear of hell.”
You need a dose of Luther here: the voice in your head telling you that you should obsess about this thought is not the voice of God. It is not the voice of your conscience. It is the voice of Satan the accuser. Look to Jesus and get on with your life.
Edwin
R
Reuben_J
Guest
I am only on your OP and have not read the rest of the posts in this thread. I think you probably had good answers already, and if that is so, I just want to state my thought only.
From a Catholic point of view, a thought does not necessary amount to mortal sin. You not being a Catholic, or perhaps not one yet,
, you may be glad to know this. 
A thought will only be a mortal sin when we act on it, of course it being grave matter and that you willfully do it… For example if we feel like killing a person, and then really do it.
Usually bad sinful thoughts are common in the lives of Christians and if we confess them, the priest would usually advise us to pray or to reflect on how much God loves us, etc., they are never really mortal sins.
What is really encouraging in your sharing, is that you really were repented of them. I think you are as good as new.
Do not be too hard on yourself because as you probably known already, God is a good God, loving and forgiving, and He tends to overlook our sins especially when we regret them.
Of course, Confession is truly a grace given by Jesus to the Church, and of course, it is really wonderful to really know that one is forgiven in the Sacrament of Confession.
God bless.
Reuben
P
poche
Guest
How can Protestants be forgiven for sins?
Protestants can be forgiven for sin in the same way that Catholics can be forgiven when they do not have access to a priest. We all must be sorry for our sins. It is by an act of perfect contrition that we are forgiven.
Protestants can be forgiven for sin in the same way that Catholics can be forgiven when they do not have access to a priest. We all must be sorry for our sins. It is by an act of perfect contrition that we are forgiven.
R
Rosebud77
Guest
Grateful for this thread as it has reminded me so strongly of the graces of my earlier life and the words we prayed in those days that are written on my heart
Almighty God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Maker of all things, Judge of all men: We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we, from time to time, most grievously have committed, By thought, word and deed, Against thy Divine Majesty, Provoking most justly thy wrath and indignation against us.
We do earnestly repent, And are heartily sorry for these our misdoings; The remembrance of them is grievous unto us; The burden of them is intolerable.
Have mercy upon us, have mercy upon us, most merciful Father; For thy Son our Lord Jesus Christ’s sake, Forgive us all that is past; And grant that we may ever hereafter Serve and please thee In newness of life, To the honour and glory of thy name; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
and the fuller version
DEARLY beloved brethren, the Scripture moveth us in sundry places to acknowledge and confess our manifold sins and wickedness; and that we should not dissemble nor cloke them before the face of Almighty God our heavenly Father; but confess them with an humble, lowly, penitent, and obedient heart; to the end that we may obtain forgiveness of the same, by his infinite goodness and mercy. And although we ought at all times humbly to acknowledge our sins before God; yet ought we most chiefly so to do, when we assemble and meet together to render thanks for the great benefits that we have received at his hands, to set forth his most worthy praise, to hear his most holy Word, and to ask those things which are requisite and necessary, as well for the body as the soul. Wherefore I pray and beseech you, as many as are here present, to accompany me with a pure heart and humble voice unto the throne of the heavenly grace, saying after me:
A general Confession to be said of the whole Congregation after the Minister, all kneeling.
ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father, We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep, We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts, We have offended against thy holy laws, We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, And we have done those things which we ought not to have done, And there is no health in us: But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offenders; Spare thou them, O God, which confess their faults, Restore thou them that are penitent, According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesu our Lord: And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
The Absolution or Remission of sins to be pronounced by the Priest alone, standing: the people still kneeling.
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live; and hath given power, and commandment, to his Ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, being penitent, the Absolution and Remission of their sins: He pardoneth and absolveth all them that truly repent, and unfeignedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore let us beseech him to grant us true repentance, and his Holy Spirit, that those things may please him, which we do at this present; and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure, and holy; so that at the last we may come to his eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
A
ajcstr
Guest
Just another thought (hey I made a pun) from a Catholic perspective:
“The story is told of the priest who asked a man in the confessional, “My son, do you entertain evil thoughts?” The penitent quickly responded, “Oh no, Father, they entertain me!” It is concupiscence that makes our minds more vulnerable to thoughts that incline us to sin and to sinful actions, but neither concupiscence nor those thoughts are sinful in themselves. The morality is determined by what we do in response: to beg God’s grace to turn away from thoughts of sin is meritorious, but to offer no resistance and give in to immoral or disordered acts is the very definition of sin itself. Concupiscence corrupts the will to the point that we are tempted to conclude that something less than God will ultimately satisfy.”
Full article on concupiscence that I pulled this from:
osv.com/Article/TabId/493/ArtMID/13569/ArticleID/10340/What-Is-Concupiscence.aspx
Concupiscence is the remnant of original sin that remains with us. In Luther’s theology man’s will is totally depraved. In Catholic theology it’s broken because concupiscence remains but not totally depraved.
“The story is told of the priest who asked a man in the confessional, “My son, do you entertain evil thoughts?” The penitent quickly responded, “Oh no, Father, they entertain me!” It is concupiscence that makes our minds more vulnerable to thoughts that incline us to sin and to sinful actions, but neither concupiscence nor those thoughts are sinful in themselves. The morality is determined by what we do in response: to beg God’s grace to turn away from thoughts of sin is meritorious, but to offer no resistance and give in to immoral or disordered acts is the very definition of sin itself. Concupiscence corrupts the will to the point that we are tempted to conclude that something less than God will ultimately satisfy.”
Full article on concupiscence that I pulled this from:
osv.com/Article/TabId/493/ArtMID/13569/ArticleID/10340/What-Is-Concupiscence.aspx
Concupiscence is the remnant of original sin that remains with us. In Luther’s theology man’s will is totally depraved. In Catholic theology it’s broken because concupiscence remains but not totally depraved.
C
Contarini
Guest
I don’t think you are right that a thought can’t be a mortal sin. The Sermon on the Mount seems to teach otherwise, and I’m quite sure that Catholic moral theology historically agrees with me.I am only on your OP and have not read the rest of the posts in this thread. I think you probably had good answers already, and if that is so, I just want to state my thought only.
From a Catholic point of view, a thought does not necessary amount to mortal sin. You not being a Catholic, or perhaps not one yet,
A thought will only be a mortal sin when we act on it, of course it being grave matter and that you willfully do it… For example if we feel like killing a person, and then really do it.
Usually bad sinful thoughts are common in the lives of Christians and if we confess them, the priest would usually advise us to pray or to reflect on how much God loves us, etc., they are never really mortal sins.
But I think your intent in counseling the OP is right. As I understand it, a thought is only a mortal sin if you deliberately dwell on it after you realize it’s an evil thought.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
That is a good observance. Normally it is not a sin.
But you are right, deliberately doing it is impurity of thought which we can confess (I would). In my case, again of course depending on the thought, the priest would advise to overcome it usually by being closer to God, anything that allow us to be that.
In the context of counselling anyone with bad sinful thought, I would say the same because more importantly is to get over it. A person who is willing to do that would be fine and should not be too hard on himself and to look at the bigger picture of the loving and forgiving God.
In the Catholic context, one does confess that but in non-Catholic, a sincere repentance (changing) should be acceptable, knowing that God would not keep count on our weaknesses and wrongdoing when we repent of them.
A bad sinful thought needs not necessarily be a mortal sin. I am not sure when it is though there may be time it is. I am not sure what it is though. Can you give an example?
Thanks for the feed back.
P
Peter_J
Guest
To the Protestants on this thread I just want to say, Good posts. (And I’m happy to be Catholic. 
)
(And I’m happy to be Catholic. )
A
ajcstr
Guest
Well, if there is an impure thought and one acts on it rather than putting it out of their head. Not saying this would always be mortal either. A lot depends on the circumstance and the intent of the individual.
The thing I struggle with the most about with all this is I think we would all agree (Protestants and Catholics) that we all sin and we sin frequently. I have a tough time reconciling that with the idea that we are “born again” of incorruptible seed. Jesus even told the woman at the well to go but sin no more. Yet this is not possible.
And if the whole idea is to recognize sin, well that just makes the gravity sin greater if you know its a sin. Kind of like a catch-22 that is impossible to break from, Catholic OR Protestant.
P
poche
Guest
This is a story I heard many years ago. Huey Long was known for helping the Catholic Church when he was governor of Louisianna. He fought to make sure that the students in the Catholic schools got the same text books as the students in teh public schools.
When he was shot he was brought to a Catholic hospital. A nun asked him if he wanted a priest. He said, “No sister, I am not a Catholic.”
The sister took his hand in hers and led him in saying the act of perfect contritioin. I don’t know if he is in Heaven or not but that is oneof the reasons why we pray for the souls in Purgatory.
When he was shot he was brought to a Catholic hospital. A nun asked him if he wanted a priest. He said, “No sister, I am not a Catholic.”
The sister took his hand in hers and led him in saying the act of perfect contritioin. I don’t know if he is in Heaven or not but that is oneof the reasons why we pray for the souls in Purgatory.
T
tgGodsway
Guest
Question. Forgiven by God? … or men? I imagine that a Protestant Catholic is forgiven in the same way that a Roman Catholic is forgiven. By asking God to forgive them and truly meaning it in their hearts.
P
poche
Guest
There is anecdotal evidence of that.
P
psalm90
Guest
Paragraph 1735 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
***Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
This paragraph sounds legalistic but it is really about God’s mercy. There are factors that diminish our responsibility for, in the case of the OP, a thought. “inadvertence” is one of the listed factors, which means, by exclusion, the rest of these factors involve deliberate actions or thoughts. So, even if the sin was somewhat intentional – you gave in to your thoughts for a moment, that doesn’t automatically push that action (thought) into the “grave” category (of mortal sin). The Church has left this paragraph open-ended, with “other” factors that might take away our full freedom (and thus responsibility) for an action.
When I bring this up, invariably people disagree with me, BUT – this is part of the “deposit of faith” of the Catholic Church and cannot be disputed with authority.
I heard a well-known radio priest say that he cannot tell if a penitent’s sins are mortal or venial, it is not immediately obvious, even if a person were to confess what you are concerned about. My opponents say everything is “black or white” but the Church says that’s not so, as stated above.
So, if you had some moments of thought that you immediately tried to suppress – by replacing them with prayer, for example – your responsibility may not be as bad as you feel it is. The Bible calls us to holiness and even Christ was tempted. The Church doesn’t say that you have 4.2 microseconds to banish a thought – it takes time to overcome a temptation. But, you must be actively involved in overcoming the temptations. “A humble and a contrite heart I will not despise.” (Isaiah)
I don’t know what Protestants (of all types) feel about this question. Some would say that all our sins were paid for by Jesus, on the cross. But, surely, the Bible directs us to repentance – turning away from our sins.
***Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
This paragraph sounds legalistic but it is really about God’s mercy. There are factors that diminish our responsibility for, in the case of the OP, a thought. “inadvertence” is one of the listed factors, which means, by exclusion, the rest of these factors involve deliberate actions or thoughts. So, even if the sin was somewhat intentional – you gave in to your thoughts for a moment, that doesn’t automatically push that action (thought) into the “grave” category (of mortal sin). The Church has left this paragraph open-ended, with “other” factors that might take away our full freedom (and thus responsibility) for an action.
When I bring this up, invariably people disagree with me, BUT – this is part of the “deposit of faith” of the Catholic Church and cannot be disputed with authority.
I heard a well-known radio priest say that he cannot tell if a penitent’s sins are mortal or venial, it is not immediately obvious, even if a person were to confess what you are concerned about. My opponents say everything is “black or white” but the Church says that’s not so, as stated above.
So, if you had some moments of thought that you immediately tried to suppress – by replacing them with prayer, for example – your responsibility may not be as bad as you feel it is. The Bible calls us to holiness and even Christ was tempted. The Church doesn’t say that you have 4.2 microseconds to banish a thought – it takes time to overcome a temptation. But, you must be actively involved in overcoming the temptations. “A humble and a contrite heart I will not despise.” (Isaiah)
I don’t know what Protestants (of all types) feel about this question. Some would say that all our sins were paid for by Jesus, on the cross. But, surely, the Bible directs us to repentance – turning away from our sins.
E
e_c
Guest
I am not convinced you are describing a mortal sin, though you have not given many details. You say the content was “not sexual or obviously blasphemous,” and yet some kinds of consent to these kinds of thoughts does not constitute mortal sin, and you seem to be elevating this kind of content above the content of your own thought.
The best thing you can do is become a Catholic - not only because we do have the possibility of frequent Confession (with a valid priesthood), but because Catholicism is the truth. Delaying conversion is what should be disturbing you, as a prayerful reading of the parable of the ten virgins should show, not a thought with mildly irreverent or sinful content that you have already manifested sorrow for.
As for “the sin,” you have done what you immediately can. There is nothing to be gained from by dwelling upon it. Move on, and have perspective… There are probably many other things you are doing or not doing that God is much more concerned about. When in doubt, ask your friends, family, and neighbors to tell you what they think are your faults!
- Status