D
DallasCatholic
Guest
I don’t think that is what Protestant101 is referring to, even OSAS Protestants believe in the final judgement.
- Status
D
distracted
Guest
That is true… and i’m particularly glad you put in that part about Protestants are generally sincere people… doing their best… (etc)… I think a lot of people on this forum & elsewhere forget that…Keep in mind that there are alot of Protestants who don’t believe in that kind of Happy Meal theology. Most Protestants are generally sincere, well-meaning people who are doing their best to live out a Christian life. I would contribute most anyone who subscribes to this false belief to be simply ignorant, or spiritually immature. Pray for them.
I want to add, for the people you find that do believe in OSAS, talk through it with them, and be sure they are really saying what you think they are. I know alot of people that say OSAS, but when you talk to them and go in depth, it’s not really what they believe.
In any case, OSAS is a very dangerous doctrine… I ought to know since i believed it for a long time
That was when i was young and didn’t think such things through (plus i didn’t know the Catholic faith very well
).
D
distracted
Guest
D
distracted
Guest
You realize this is illogical, don’t u? I mean, to say that someone gets saved and then loses their salvation means they weren’t saved to begin with… That doesn’t make sense… I guess you mean that if a person goes through the motions (whatever that may be), then he wasn’t really saved…
In any case, the Catholic Church teaches we are saved by Grace that comes from the sacrifice of Christ… Only Jesus saves, not our good works…
Yet, you can lose your soul through neglect of the good works that Christ commands. Matt 25:31: Jesus tells us that when we visit the prisoners, feed the hungry, etc, we go to Heaven. When we neglect to do those things, we do not. It may seem contradictary to some, but it is not… To hold onto grace, we need to do things… & refrain from doing others… Jesus said the way to eternal life was through fulfilling the Commandments, the greatest of which is 2 love God. The 2nd greatest is to love each other… These are works (and if you knew the people in my life, you would realize HOW MUCH work it really is
And i am not kidding…Anyway, OSAS is definitely NOT in the Bible so i don’t know where people come up with that…
Wishful thinking, i guess - and/or taking other scirptures out of context, making them more important than Matt 25:31(etc)…Thank God for the Church, which is given to us to clear up these and other seeming contradictions.
T
The_Confused_1
Guest
I see! well thanks for clearing that up.once saved always saved… I think!
E
Exodus15
Guest
Non-Catholics - Saved when I found Jesus
Catholics - Saved when Jesus finds me
Catholics - Saved when Jesus finds me
S
smolderingwick
Guest
cckz7,
It makes perfect sense that people who claim to have been saved and therefore are “good to go forever” would be misled into thinking they are right with God when they are not… hence the saying of “Lord, Lord”, yet not making it… Who else would this verse be referring to? I think it refers to those who violate Matt 25:31 (don’t do charitable works 4 their brethren, etc.).
i think it is anything BUT judgmental… How is there any judgment at all in it? You repent, accept Jesus, then do whatever you want and yet get into Heaven, no Purgatory, do not pass go, etc… How UN judgmental can u get???
And this other scripture proves my point better than yours (which is, apparently, in support of OSAS):
S
smolderingwick
Guest
Never thought of it that way - but seems right on.
S
smolderingwick
Guest
HUh???
Catholics don’t believe in anything remotely like “once damned always damned”.I’ve been Catholic all my life… If anything, Catholics are the most forgiving of all… (at least theoretically).
S
Steadfast_love
Guest
Lol. I’m against OSAS which is why I cited Jer 18 as an “antidote” and “contradiction” to the “overly judgmental” doctrine of OSAS.
No. Once Saved Always Saved is You repent, accept Jesus and are forevermore supernaturaly prevented from falling from grace. I say it’s overly judgemental because Christians need forgiveness too.i think it is anything BUT judgmental… How is there any judgment at all in it? You repent, accept Jesus, then do whatever you want and yet get into Heaven, no Purgatory, do not pass go, etc… How UN judgmental can u get???
C
Chris_LaRock
Guest
One of the major defenses for this doctrine is:The Bible, which Protestants claim to go by and know so well… distinctly disproves the once saved, always saved doctrine…
How can Protestants read passages like Matthew 18:23, James 2:12, Matthew 25:31 and many, many others and still come up with this belief??
Just wondering… don’t get it…
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,** neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand**.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
M
mgrobertson79
Guest
The only thing is when they sin, they aren’t being plucked out, they are falling. We always have free will. We choose every day, every minute whether to accept or reject the gift God has given us. It isn’t a one time deal, as I was taught as a child.
I grew up in a relatively strict southern baptist family. When was 9 I went to the front of the church and went through the motions as everyone else had done. I can’t tell you what I really believed, though I can tell you I loved God.
As the years went on, I went through the typical teen stage of rebellion and fell away from what I had been raised to believe. When I was 14 or so I started listening to EWTN on shortwave radio. I had to do it in private as my mother disapproved of my listening to anything Catholic. I went on like that for a few years and ended up not going to church at all. When I was 25, after a lot a problems in my life I went and spoke with a Priest and eventually went through the RCIA program at the local parish. It has been 2 years now and though I am not perfect by any means, I do still love God, more than ever now, and wish I had sought the guidance of a Priest much sooner.
Yes, My family does believe in OSAS. I believe they would shut you out if you tried to reason with them about it. My grandfather, who was born into a Catholic family, has been a southern baptist minister for over 30 years now. His pride prevents him from even discussing the subject. I guess he doesn’t want to admit his life has been spent defending and pushing a fallacy.
We have those who have run the race before us to follow. Protestants seem to think it all ended in Revelations and the Saints are just ordinary people who led ordinary lives. I believe they were ordinary people who led extraordinary lives.
“The gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. But the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Mt 7:13-14)
I believe this is an ongoing decision, which path to take. One can veer off course and be on the wrong path, but if he repents and changes course, through the Sacraments instituted by Christ, he can get back on the right path.
St. Benedict Pray for us,
St. Bernard Pray for us,
O Mary Conceived Without Sin, Pray For Us Who Have Recourse To Thee
G
guanophore
Guest
Now you are contradicting yourself. One cannot gain or preserve one’s salvation by doing good works. Salvation is by grace, through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.
It is not contradictory if those actions flow out of faith. They are the evidence of saving faith, not the means to it. Saving faith expresses itself in love, but expressing good works alone is not salvific. there are many people who do good works, but give no glory to God.
LOL! God knows what we have need of before we ask it!To hold onto grace, we need to do things… & refrain from doing others… Jesus said the way to eternal life was through fulfilling the Commandments, the greatest of which is 2 love God. The 2nd greatest is to love each other… These are works (and if you knew the people in my life, you would realize HOW MUCH work it really is
The “works salvation” thread has a very good representation of this model, and I recommend it for reading. There are a vast number of scriptures that support an OSAS position.Anyway, OSAS is definitely NOT in the Bible so i don’t know where people come up with that…
Yes, but if you want to understand and dialogue with OSAS people, it is important to know where they come from.
M
mgrobertson79
Guest
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and in lack of food, and one of you says to them,“Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things they needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
One more thing,
St. John 6
52: The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53: So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55: For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57: As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
58: This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”
M
Malcolm_McLean
Guest
Once Saved Always Saved. In Catholic terms of course we beleive this is true - salvation inherently can’t be undone. However most Protestants mean that once having “made a commitment to Jesus” they are saved and assured of heaven.
In a way it might be true. The soul has a case that once it was with Jesus, so that relationship can be rekindled. And as long as there is the faintest glimmer of hope, you can’t be in Hell.
The problem is that it is usally allied to an abandonment of the sacrament of Confession and doesn’t acknowledge the reality and seriousness of sin, which can occur after a person has become an active Christian as well as before it. The other problem is that the event identified as the commitment to Jesus is often a rather shallow one. People can be carried away by the excitement of a rally and, whilst stepping forwards means something, it doesn’t necessarily mean all that much.
Catholics are not, as you might think, primarily concerned about what OSAS primarily says about the soul’s ultimate destination. It is the effect it has in the here and now that is the worry.
J
Jerry-Jet
Guest
It is true because Jesus said so–those people who believe in Once Saved Always Saved and do not Eat his Flesh and Drink His Blood have no life in them.
Who cares about their arguments for Once Saved Always Saved if by following their churches and not Eating Jesus’ Flesh and Drinking His Blood one ends up in Hell?
As long as Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10;26-32 are in the bible I don’t see how anyone can believe Once Saved always Saved.
Wouldn’t Paul be quite foolish in telling people to work out their salvation with fear and trembling" if they were Once Saved Always Saved?
Paul didn’t believe that–if he did he wouldn’t have told people otherwise
How can you have the blessed Assurance of Once Saved Always Saved and Work out your salvation with Fear and Trembling?
The real answer is you can’t and the real answer is Once Saved Always Saved does not exist!
Who cares about their arguments for Once Saved Always Saved if by following their churches and not Eating Jesus’ Flesh and Drinking His Blood one ends up in Hell?
As long as Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10;26-32 are in the bible I don’t see how anyone can believe Once Saved always Saved.
Wouldn’t Paul be quite foolish in telling people to work out their salvation with fear and trembling" if they were Once Saved Always Saved?
Paul didn’t believe that–if he did he wouldn’t have told people otherwise
How can you have the blessed Assurance of Once Saved Always Saved and Work out your salvation with Fear and Trembling?
The real answer is you can’t and the real answer is Once Saved Always Saved does not exist!
M
mgrobertson79
Guest
Actually I care a great deal because this means the people I love the most are deluding themselves straight to hell. I sure hope not and pray that somehow they will see the light before it is to late.
C
Chris_LaRock
Guest
That makes sense.
Also:
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
In order for this to be true, the oppisite would also have to be true.
J
Jerry-Jet
Guest
All my relatives aren’t Catholic. It makes me want to weep.
Jesus felt like that when He wept over Jerusalem and it not wanting to believe His words.
Jesus felt like that when He wept over Jerusalem and it not wanting to believe His words.
C
contramundum7
Guest
I don’t think any of these proves OSAS… especially when taken in context w/ the other scripures… It seems Protestants take Scirpture out of context a lot… (don’t mean to sound negative, just stating my opinion)… But its understandable they do so because they take the Bible out of context - meaning out of the context ofthe Church that put (New T) together… It is a learned thing with them…
Anyway, the OSAS thing has been totally disproved by the NEw Testament, takne in its entirety…
- Status