How can relatives/friends of people who go to hell be happy in heaven?

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Jerome100 said:
I have been dealing with doubts about our faith recently and one thing that has been disturbing me is the question of how a person can be happy in heaven if someone they love is in hell. Wouldn’t they miss that person? And therefore wouldn’t they not be perfectly happy in heaven, since one of their loved ones is not there?
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If they are in hell then they aren’t who you thought they were.

Fallouts between relatives and friends happen all the time.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
I have sometimes wondered just how spirits interact and know things. They can’t be seen or felt, and yet we’re told there is a “communion of Saints” suggesting unity of some sort, a comradeship in some elevated way.

And I have wondered whether those in heaven are even aware of those in hell. It would not be too difficult for God to simply block some people from our consciousness, allowing us to access and perceive only those who are united with Him.
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People in Heaven and hell don’t interact with each other, but they’re still aware that there is a hell. God doesn’t fix problems with ignorance. He fixes them with wisdom.
 
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I like to think that they won’t curse themselves. They will only curse God for their actions, and will never repent, instead spitting curses.
 
IMO it’s because once in Heaven souls receive exalted knowledge and understanding. Without any attachments, they see things much more clearly that we do, and understand the justice of God to the point that there is no room for doubt about his judgment.
 
Well, that depends on who you thought they were while they were here. Some people in hell might indeed be who one thought they were – in other words obviously evil and never sorry for it.

But, as a caveat, while we’re here, we don’t know who really is in heaven, purgatory or hell. All we can do is pray they’re in one of the two better places, and ideally in the best place of all.
 
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As kind of a side note, I’ve always been a little baffled by the comment you will commonly hear in Catholic circles, “people freely choose to be in hell, if they go there, it is because they want to go there, and it is because they have rejected God” (or words to that effect). If we are to believe what the Church teaches about mortal sin — which is what makes you worthy of hell in the first place — then it seems there are many people who go there, or may go there, who are really not all that bad. They just organized their lives, and chose behaviors that they didn’t want to give up, that put them outside the friendship of God, but it’s not as though they really wanted to be outside God’s friendship — they just wanted to keep committing the sin, and didn’t want to give it up.

I have to think there are people in hell who cry out something like “No fair! No fair! I didn’t hate God, I just didn’t want to give up that thing I liked!” And I don’t think these people really “hated God” in this life — they just had other priorities, or “weren’t all that religious”, or the sin was just too much a part of what made their life enjoyable, or happy, or easy, or what was expected of them by others, or whatever.

Thoughts?
 
Jerome100 said:
I have been dealing with doubts about our faith recently and one thing that has been disturbing me is the question of how a person can be happy in heaven if someone they love is in hell. Wouldn’t they miss that person? And therefore wouldn’t they not be perfectly happy in heaven, since one of their loved ones is not there?
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The Beatific Vision will be so wonderful.
 
Thank you to all who responded. You have given me much to think about. I truly appreciate it!
 
Timeflies2me said:
It wouldnt matter because if one goes to heaven they become spirits, nobody is going to be recognized as their brother or cousin or mother.
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At the moment of death the soul is separated from the body. On Judgement Day the bodies of all the soul of the deceased will reunite with their bodies and rise from the dead. The just will have glorified bodies and the wicked will not.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Why should the people in Heaven suffer because of other people’s bad choices?
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Doesn’t every human being bear the image and likeness of God and thus have intrinsic dignity/value/worth?

Doesn’t Christ in the parable of the sheep and the goats surprise us by informing us that we must minister even to those in prison (i.e., folks making “bad choices”)?

St Teresa of Avila says, “This is what makes me so sad for all the souls who have fallen into disgrace. I want to help them return. Especially those who have been baptized and are already lovers of Christ. I would willingly suffer a thousand deaths if it meant I could set even one such soul free from such terrible torture.” Theresa of Avila, The Book of My Life, XXXII

St Catherine of Siena says, “How could I ever reconcile myself, Lord, to the prospect that a single one of those whom, like me, you have created in yοur image and likeness should become lost and slip from your hands? No, in absolutely no case do I want to see a single one of my brethren meet with ruin, not a single one of those who, through their like birth, are one with me by nature and by grace. I want them all to be wrested from the grasp of the ancient enemy, so that they all become yours to the honor and greater glorification of your name.
If only your truth and your justice were to reveal themselves, then I would desire that there no longer be a hell, or at least that no soul would go there. If I could remain united with you in love while, at the same time, placing myself before the entrance to hell and blocking it off in such a way that no one could enter again, then that would be the greatest of joys for me, for all those whom I love would then be saved.” Dialogues of Catherine of Siena

Please believe me, Scarlet, I’m not criticizing you. I’m light-years removed from the deep love that these amazing saints embodied. But at the same time, their love is the goal. And it’s really the only appropriate attitude toward Hell. We cannot become callous to it.
 
I believe it comes down to whether such people tried to follow what they thought was right to the best of their abilities. If they consciously rejected the good, then in a sense they didn’t want friendship with God, who is all good. Of course we can’t confine God’s mercy, and so they may accept God finally when given one final opportunity before passing from this life.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
As kind of a side note, I’ve always been a little baffled by the comment you will commonly hear in Catholic circles, “people freely choose to be in hell, if they go there, it is because they want to go there, and it is because they have rejected God” (or words to that effect). If we are to believe what the Church teaches about mortal sin — which is what makes you worthy of hell in the first place — then it seems there are many people who go there, or may go there, who are really not all that bad.
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I don’t believe in hell at all, but I appreciate your honesty with regards to this. What you state, is exactly what the Church teaches. Those who give the “other” explanation you mentioned are only interested in creating a word pretzel, for reasons I never understood. Either you believe what the Church teaches, or you don’t.
 
But St Teresa of Avila was talking about suffering on Earth.
We are to evangelize and pray hard and fast for the conversion of other people.
Maybe we plant the seeds of conversion in another person and that’s the best possible outcome and we rejoice.
We’re just as likely to be spit on for our efforts, just like Jesus.
Maybe that person goes to Hell and that’s beyond tragic, and it’s appropriate for us to mourn while we’re on Earth.

But once a person goes to Heaven, why should they suffer for all eternity over somebody else’s bad choices?
 
HomeschoolDad said:
it seems there are many people who go there, or may go there, who are really not all that bad. They just organized their lives, and chose behaviors that they didn’t want to give up,
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Erm, rejecting God because you don’t want to give up your pet sins is kinda, you know, like, bad.
 
Jerome100 said:
I have been dealing with doubts about our faith recently and one thing that has been disturbing me is the question of how a person can be happy in heaven if someone they love is in hell. Wouldn’t they miss that person? And therefore wouldn’t they not be perfectly happy in heaven, since one of their loved ones is not there?
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Because , your will…and God’s will are the same in Heaven, people in Hell are enemies to God.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
But St Teresa of Avila was talking about suffering on Earth .
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I thought she said she’d willingly suffer a thousand deaths? And St Catherine goes further and says that if it were possible, she would place herself before the entrance to Hell to prevent entry. How would she do that on Earth?
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
But once a person goes to Heaven, why should they suffer for all eternity over somebody else’s bad choices?
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If a person is in prison, then undoubtedly that person has made some “bad choices,” right? And yet, Christ compels us to care for them (Matthew 25) and includes prisoners among the most vulnerable (the starving, homeless, stranger, infirm). And he doesn’t say it as if it’s an option. Sure sounds like a requirement. Which just goes to show that the heart of Christ extends as far as it can to love everyone, even those who have made bad choices that have led to irrevocable consequences.

I think what the OP as well as the Saints that I’ve quoted have all been getting at, is that any human who bears the image and likeness of God suffering in a neverending manner is intolerable to love. Love does not stand idly by while others suffer. Love rejects that. And there will never be a time or a state (eg, Heaven) when this is not true.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
it seems there are many people who go there, or may go there, who are really not all that bad. They just organized their lives, and chose behaviors that they didn’t want to give up,
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Yes, you know that, and I know that, but what of, for instance, the young person who goes off to college, or goes off to the big city and has some “freedom” for the first time in their life? They’re not bad people. They love their mom and dad, they do nice things for people, they do 5K runs for charity, they give blood, they have a good heart. They just want to party, and stay out late, and do a little sexual experimenting when the opportunity arises, maybe move in with their lover, and just “have a good time”. They’ve always been taught right from wrong, but darn it, they’re too busy having fun. You’re only young once. They love God and all that, but they “need their space”, they “need their freedom”. They’ll settle down one day, just not yet.

And then they’re killed instantly in a car wreck one night. No chance to repent. No chance to receive the sacraments.

Not my idea of a hardened sinner, just a kid enjoying the “party life” as so many millions do…

…but what then?
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