How can such a divided society continue?

[Time_Watcher]

Here is the Lord’s answer for His ultimate intent to deal with the condition of a lost world of humanity today … it is not pretty

However, His ultimate outcome for His ecclesia will meet the testing

Revelation
3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This is coming:

Revelation
14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication

.17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her

And so is this:

Romans
8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

 

[OriginalJS]

We are not in hard times.
Life today is probably better for the average person then any time in history.

At least for the middle and upper classes in first world countries.

 

[Nita]

Call me the eternal optimist. I see very little difference between today and the Dark Ages.

Notice that I did say “little difference”. This is one difference that is not so little, but it’s not the end of the world either. Atheism was not overt in those days. I’m sure that there were atheists. But they kept their mouth shut. Religion was very powerful back then, whether you were in Christian Europe, Buddhist Asia, Muslim Arabia or Jewish Palestine.

However, I’ve always subscribed to better the enemy you know than the one you don’t. We may be in a better position that those folks were.

I do agree with Church Militant. We do seem hellbent on destroying ourselves. But I don’t think this is part of God’s plan for us. If we do ourselves in, it will be God’s passive Will. He will allow us to do so, not want us to do so.

I think what makes it difficult today is that we are in the** transition state **(at least here in the USA) from a Christian culture to a secular atheistic culture. We remember what it was like 20 - … years ago. So it is the **collapse & change **of the familiar that causes interior anxiety and confusion. If atheistic anti-Christian secularism had been the state of our culture when we were born, we’d have been familiar with it and probably been prepared more in our religious training for the ridicule, how to accept and deal with established legal & economic injustices towards Christians, etc. Those born when a culture is oppressive still suffer all the same injustices, but it is their “norm”; they don’t experience the collapse of a better norm and the anxiety that causes.

 

[TimothyH]

I suspect that we need to pray, be faithful, and “man up” , as they say, and ride it out whatever way it goes. God has been faithful all along and we have our Blessed Lord Jesus’ promise that He will be with us always. So if it was good enough for Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Maximilian Kolbe, then it’s good enough for me.

That part about “be faithful” is key for me.

With age I have become less and less worry about comparative history, what society at large is doing or not doing to itself, or what is happening in the global Church. There is a time and place to speak out - I wrote a letter to my congressman last month and will be going to a town hall meeting with my local county commissioner next month - but God has placed me in suburban Atlanta and in charge of two children, a car, a house and 40 customers with about 6 petabytes of data with which they run their businesses. This is the theater of my redemption.

Mother Theresa was once asked about some government program and she replied that she didn’t have time for government programs. The idea of making things better was good, but she said, “There are people dying in the street right now.” Mother Theresa worked in the present moment, in the location where she was placed, faithful to God’s call in the here and now, doing everything as if she were doing it for Christ who was present with her and treating everyone she met as if they were Christ standing in front of her.

When I speak to the man who is slicing my lunch meat, do I speak to him as if he were more important than I? When I drive on the road, do I treat other motorists as if they are going to do something more important than I? This is the theater of my redemption.

It doesn’t mean sticking my head in the sand and ignoring reality. A “here and now” view of the world has actually made me more willing to speak out and less concerned of what other people think of me.

There is a line in a song which goes, “How can I change the word when I can’t even change myself?” We claim every moment for Christ when we are faithful to God in that particular moment. We claim our cubicle at work, the checkout line at the grocery store and the shower in our bathroom when we are faithful to answering the phone when we know it is a difficult customer, when we smile at the cashier even though she gets on our nerves and when we clean that shower stall as if Christ were going to shower next.

That part about “be faithful” to the small things in life is key for me because it liberates me from worry. God is in charge of history. I have been made steward of a tiny little part of that, here in suburban Atlanta. Like a soldier, I have to do my part and trust that God is in charge and that the war will be won. The wall around Jerusalem was built brick by brick.

That is why we are called the Church Militant, because we are all soldiers and have to do our part in the present moment and the present time, in the here and now. I’m certainly not going to stick my head in the sand, but I am certainly not going to spend days worrying about the state of history either.

-Tim-

 

[sw85]

"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."

Shrewdly written by Machiavelli in the golden Renaissance of Italy.

Honestly, I doubt you would find peace no matter where or when you went. In a way, it might be easier and less stressful to live in a world where people are willing to label themselves as non-Christians, then to have to live in the heart of Christendom where everybody labels themselves as such and almost everybody goes to Mass every week, and yet a lack of virtue can still be clearly seen. It is impossible to escape the war.

This is a good point. While I do think the present age is objectively bad, we are also more deeply acquainted with its evils than those of previous ages so we are perhaps tempted to think this is an age of unparalleled degeneracy when it may well not be. Moreover, it’s always the case that a heart truly longing for God will never feel at peace in any society in any age. Christianity, truly believed, does not claim to alleviate man’s alienation from God, only to explain and to manage it.

 

[ScottEH]

This discussion reminds me of something I experienced. I recall an incident a few years back that really hit me hard. There was a man preaching to the students walking to class at my university. I assume he was prepared for the response he receieved but I certainly was not. Instead of reapectfully listening or even ignoring the man, a large crowd gathered around him and laughed. They laughed, and they yelled, and they went out of their way to mock him.

This was a man venturing out into the masses of atheists trying to do God’s work. The problem is, people have such little respect, even for the idea of God, that their first reaction is to mock. I remember thinking that this is what it must’ve been like for early Christians (only much bloodier, obviously). If you think it won’t get worse, then you must be far more optimistic than I.

As for my place in this incident, I simply frowned and kept walking. I didn’t stand up for the man preaching Christ’s word. I was too cowardly to do so. I feared the response of my peers and a potential loss of respect. This is exactly the opposite of what I should have done, and it happens to be a huge regret whenever I think of it. I should’ve stuck up for him, but I walked away like a coward.

Moral of the story is; if you see someone being mocked for holding fast to their faith in Christ, stick up for that person, no matter what the situation. If we don’t, we will only lose more souls to this pagan culture, and the decline will be that much quicker. I think it’s very likely that you will see more and more that this is increasingly commonplace in our culture. I could probably give dozens of other examples of this sort, but that should suffice. I hope that made some sense.

 

[JReducation]

This is a good point. While I do think the present age is objectively bad, we are also more deeply acquainted with its evils than those of previous ages so we are perhaps tempted to think this is an age of unparalleled degeneracy when it may well not be. Moreover, it’s always the case that a heart truly longing for God will never feel at peace in any society in any age. Christianity, truly believed, does not claim to alleviate man’s alienation from God, only to explain and to manage it.

Two things that you have here that caught my eye.

First, as I tell my brothers. The grass always looks greener at a distance. We always think that yesterday was better than today. Why that is . . . is a very complex psychiatric explanation that I don’t want to get into here, because it won’t help.

Second, St. Augustine said, “Our hearts will not rest until they rest in Thee O Lord.”