How can the Catholic church claim an unbroken line of popes

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amgid:
I admit that I do not know a lot about the practice of the “extreme unction” in the RCC; but from what little I know, it would appear that in the RCC it is effectively a person’s “last rites”. You perform “extreme unction” on someone when they are almost at the point of death. You don’t do it when they catch a cold. It is a way of preparing someone to die, rather than helping them to live! In the LDS Church, any person no matter how serious or minor their illnesses might be, may request such a blessing; and its purpose is to help them recover, not help them to die!
Oh my, no. It’s commonly called “Last Rites” because it is indeed performed when someone is about to die. But it’s not reserved only for that time. My mother received the sacrament when she had a bad illness and didn’t know what it was. My uncle received it multiple times as an infant, when he had to have surgery on his heart.

It’s true that you don’t do it when a person catches a cold, but it’s not only reserved for the deathbed, either. I think it would be done a lot more if people knew this and asked for it when they were seriously ill, in the hospital, etc.
 
“It is a way of preparing someone to die, rather than helping them to live! In the LDS Church, any person no matter how serious or minor their illnesses might be, may request such a blessing; and its purpose is to help them recover, not help them to die!”
*I am curious as to why you felt the need for an exclamation mark at the end of your last sentence? Who told you about this rite? Can you really open your heart here and talk about his? *
*I would like to note that Death is recovery in Christ Jesus, not something to fear or to run from when it is imminent, in dying we are raised in Christ. When I die I expect Christ to be at my side. This rite brings Christ to the sick and to the dying alike. But in the end it’s not about dying at all, it’s all about healing the soul. In Christ we will never really die as He is our very life. *

**The Catechism of the Catholic Church #1499 **states:

“By the sacred anointing of the sick and the prayer of the priests the whole Church commends those who are ill to the suffering and glorified Lord, that he may raise them up and save them. And indeed she [the Church] exhorts them to contribute to the good of the People of God by freely uniting themselves to the Passion and death of Christ.”** [quoting from Lumen Gentium, Vatican II.]
Anointing of the Sick serves to strengthen those who are being tried by illness or advanced age. The sacrament, though long relegated to the moments prior to death, always sought also the recovery of the anointed person, according to God’s will. We understand the notion of being in danger of death in a much more liberal but realistic manner than might have been the case 50 years ago. The reception of the sacrament presumes that the individual is already baptized and at least seven years of age, that is, having achieved the age of reason. Generally one would not anoint a child below seven years of age. **The Sign: **the laying on of hands by a priest or bishop, and anointing with blessed oil. The oil must come from olive or another plant. Normally the oil is blessed by the bishop at the yearly Chrism Mass, but may also be blessed by any priest for a given ceremony. Instituted by Christ: found in all the many cures enacted by Christ in the Gospels. Laying on of hands, or some other touch was common in healing/miracle stories. The apostolic recommendation is most clearly found in the Letter of James *[James 5: 13-15.]

To give Grace: Spiritual wellness, forgiveness of sins, and the possibility of physical healing. One receives the particular gift of the Holy Spirit; one’s suffering is united to that of Christ; one receives the grace conferred by the prayer of the Church; it confers spiritual strength and courage; and it prepares one for the final journey …
 
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amgid:
I am glad to hear it. What you need to do now is to read the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price (if you haven’t already); to gain a good grounding of LDS doctrine.
amgid,

I actually think that I spent TOO MUCH TIME first reading the D&C and PoGP before delving into my second (and then third) reading of the BoM. And, as I read many FARMS reviews, I realized that what many pointed out is true - those that are quick to jump to the ‘anti-Mormon’ side of the fence (which, I admit, is still the side I am on, although ‘anti’ sounds overly negative) often have read only the more controversial bits of the D&C and PoGP and have often neverI don’t think that Amgid was a particularly righteous king. I chose it simply because it is short and cute and unique, and easy to pronounce and remember, and comes from the Book of Mormon. At first I thought of choosing Gadianton; but I decided against it because it has too many syllables and not so easy to pronounce. 😃

Ha! Rather like why I chose “Ben” except that it is a short form of my real name (which is Benedict although everyone assumes ‘Benjamin’ and I gave up correcting folks years ago) and the first two initials of my last name (Dy) as the remainder is Polish which is so frequently mispronounced that I answer to anything that seems to begin with “die”. As to “Amgid” I think another good reason might be that he is something of a mystery - only mentioned once and not counted as either a righteous or an unrighteous ruler: unique and mysterious.
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amgid:
I admit that I do not know a lot about the practice of the “extreme unction” in the RCC; but from what little I know, it would appear that in the RCC it is effectively a person’s “last rites”. You perform “extreme unction” on someone when they are almost at the point of death. You don’t do it when they catch a cold. It is a way of preparing someone to die, rather than helping them to live! In the LDS Church, any person no matter how serious or minor their illnesses might be, may request such a blessing; and its purpose is to help them recover, not help them to die!
Both the “rites” for the “Pastoral Care of the Sick” and “Pastoral Care of the Dying” are found in the U.S. published “Pastoral Care of the Sick: Rites of Anointing and Viaticum” outline the proper recipients for each type of anointing. “Viaticum” is, as you reference, properly, what could be called “last rites”, traditionally called the “commendation of the dying” but, as there is always a chance of recovery, one may receive “last rites” several times during one’s lifetime (personally, I have received “last rites” three times - each when I was in danger of death). You are correct in saying that anointing of the sick would usually NOT take place when an otherwise healthy man or woman may be suffering from a common cold - in that case one might ask for prayers, certainly, and a blessing, Again, I have received an “anointing of the sick” on four occasions - three before surgery which could well have had the outcome of death and once when I was suffering from an edema for which the treatment was experimentally and the outcome of the treatment in doubt. So the anointing of the sick is not really a preparation for death (although death may well be the outcome of the illness) where Viaticum is, indeed, a preparation for the possibility or certainty of death. The ONLY thing that I know of the LDS rite is what I read in a book about Mark Hofmann - that when a passer-by noticed that Hofmann was wearing temple garments after a bomb had exploded in Hofmann’s car and he was seriously injured, the LDS priest anointed him and “commanded him” not to die. If Hofmann had been Catholic and had it been a priest as the passer-by, he would surely have been dealt with (because of the apparent seriousness of his injuries) as an ‘emergency’ in which an abbreviated form of anointing would have taken place. We do not, however, anoint those already dead - in that case prayers for the dead are sufficient as the dead have passed from this life.

…continued…
 
…continued…

amgid said:
“perfect state of grace” and “imperfect state of grace” are meaningless terminologies in the LDS world. Everyone knows what sin is and what repentance is; and everyone knows if they have done something wrong that would render them unworthy of officiating in the office of the priesthood.

I did not say anything about “perfect faith” or “imperfect faith,” and “perfect grace” or “imperfect grace”. Those terminologies are generally meaningless to me. What I said was that if a person is in transgression, he cannot act as channel or conduit through whom the Holy Spirit can operate; for the Spirit of God does not dwell in unholy temples.

amgid

You are correct in saying that we all know - or should know - what constitute sin and penance. Those of us in a state of mortal sin and who have no intention of repenting of that sin and yet approach the Sacrament of the Eucharist do so unworthily, and our sins are even further compounded. And while there are governance’s that allow or do not allow a priest to exercise his faculties of the sacrificing priesthood, we do not demand - or even presume - (although there are certainly a number of points in the Mass where the priests asks God’s grace in a penitential manner) that our priests are 100% free of sin. Yet even if a priest be completely unworthy - full of sin - his sin does not make the Mass invalid as he is acting in the person of Christ and, in that, Christ may never be unworthy of re-presenting the sacrifice which he offered upon the Cross.

There are a number of points on which our respective beliefs are so out of sync with one another that I can only barely understand your stance that (if I am stating this correctly) one ‘loses’ the priesthood through sin. In our theology no man (currently living, that is!) is free of sin and yet those called to the priesthood may be ordained and, as commanded by his bishop, may exercise the faculties given him even though he may sin. And he, like us, has recourse to repentance through the sacrament of penance (and I know of no priest who does not take advantage of this most precious sacrament!).
 
paul barlow:
… explain how god whould justify evil men to be his representive on the earth.
Same thing you have to explain why there are sinners in every church since sin is what makes one(in it’s simplest sense) evil. If you think that any of your presidents have not sinned then I would start explaining our side.

I just think that that is too much to ask since the actions of the members of a church doesn’t constitute whether the church is true or not.
 
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