How can the church have a gay priest?

[Contarini]

But this still happens. The Church teaches that SSA is intrinsically disordered and affects everything about a person.
It counters the ability to act in persona Christi

Can you provide official Church teaching saying this? I hope and believe that the Catholic Church teaches nothing of the kind, although some theologians claim this. In my view this is a heretical doctrine, which falls into exactly the same trap as the liberal view that homosexuality is a morally neutral part of a person’s God-given nature. The liberal view is at least an amiable error. The view you are expounding has an equally warped understanding of human nature but doesn’t have the excuse of humanitarian feeling behind it!

Edwin

 

[TimOliv]

If he is invalidly ordained (which would seem to be the logical consequence of not having a true vocation), wouldn’t that mean that he does not have the ability to confect the Sacraments?

And if so, then we’re all in deep trouble, especially in Dioceses where there have been gay Bishops (even secretly) in the past, since no one in that Diocese could have been validly ordained by that Bishop, if this is the case.

If the sacrament was administered properly, then that doesn’t make the priest or bishop invalidly ordained. There is no ‘annulment’ for an ordination.

 

[jmcrae]

If the sacrament was administered properly, then that doesn’t make the priest or bishop invalidly ordained.

Then, despite being “gay” or any other failings he may have, he must have had a true vocation.

There is no ‘annulment’ for an ordination.

Thank God for that!!

 

[KindredSoul]

The Church is not to have ‘gay’ priests! That does not mean there are not a number of them and even in the episcopate. “Amchurch Comes Out” and "The Rite of Sodomy’ write of the lurid history of gay clergy quite clearly and the repercussions of this.

No gay men are supposed to be ordained.

But this still happens. The Church teaches that SSA is intrinsically disordered and affects everything about a person.
It counters the ability to act in persona Christi**

Those that disregard the Church instructions here, will disregard them in other areas as well.

Personally, I do not think a man with SSA has a true vocation to the priesthood.

Ave Maria!

If all this is true, and perhaps it is very true, then I believe that the true definition of “gay” can only be “someone who accepts, acts on or claims an identity as being gay.” Anyone else, then, even if tempted by the feelings, must not be truly gay. I wouldn’t understand if either the Church or God would bar a completely competent man from the Priesthood for a temptation that doesn’t define him, but is just temptation…in such a scenario, the man has done nothing wrong. Therefore, if the Church doesn’t ordain “gay” people–and I agree 100% that homosexuality is wrong, so such a view would be rightful–then a man who merely faces the temptation, no matter how often, must not be gay. Otherwise, if unwelcome temptation is all it takes to render an ordination invalid or wrong, I should think that only an angel should be ordained…and considering the fall of Satan, apparently even some angels deal with temptation.

 

[RevDrNorth]

As jmcrae and others point out there is a difference between an inclination or pre dispostion and acting it out. Tony Campola makes this point. Henri Nowen is a famous Catholic Priest and spiritual giant. Brilliant and he chose to live his life among the mentally challenged at L’Arch. Beautiful Christian witness. After his death it was discovered through his correspondence (and known to some friends) that he was a celibate gay Priest. As Campola (Evangelical) points out (praphrase), anyone saying Nouwen is a pervert is the real actual pervert him or herself.

Let me give another example, you or I (all of us) have a presdisposition to sin (lust, greed, jealousy and so on). That predisposition does not disqualify us from Priesthood or the Christian life. It is something we deal with every day as we move along the process of sanctification.

North

 

[visavismeyou]

Those that disregard the Church instructions here, will disregard them in other areas as well.

Ad hominem, baseless and assumptive.

Personally, I do not think a man with SSA has a true vocation to the priesthood.

Ave Maria!

im glad you said “think” because there is no way for you to know what is in another person’s heart. You ought not assume this either.

Are homosexual acts immoral? Yes.

Is homosexual attraction “Being Gay” no

I say no to this last one because think about it, can there be a Homosexual Virgin?

These terms are inept, gay, homosexual etc. If a man feels that he is attracted to men, something that he feels is his nature (not saying that it is his nature, but one thing can feel to be natural yet not actually be) but he also knows he ought to fight it and he succeeds and does not act upon his homosexual urges, then he is a stronger man than many heterosexual men.

Does the attraction to men make him a complete waste of flesh and ought to be disposed of as such? (That is saying that he is useless in any regards of the priesthood, inheriently unable to be a priest, or, a productive member of society) of course not.

homosexual inclinations can be fought, if that fight is successful that person can contribute much. What about a youth who is going through the fight and approaches his priest in confession and that priest went through the same fight. I feel that a recovering homosexual priest would be more apt to help that youth than a heterosexual.

and outright, just because someone “disregards” one thing does not mean they will do it again. That is illogical to the extreme.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I think some of us would be surprised to find out some of the most devout and orthodox priest might identify SSA. How would we know?

 

[jmcrae]

I think some of us would be surprised to find out some of the most devout and orthodox priest might identify SSA. How would we know?

Short of asking them outright, we never would.

 

[TimOliv]

Then, despite being “gay” or any other failings he may have, he must have had a true vocation.

Thank God for that!!

That’s another matter completely. One could argue that Father Shanley did not have a true vocation. Or another could argue that priests who succumb to sin, go into schism or just simply don’t make the grade DID have a true vocation, they just gave in to temptation. Really, unless God appears before us, there is no way we can know (but boy, would that make the screening process easier!)

 

[jmcrae]

That’s another matter completely. One could argue that Father Shanley did not have a true vocation. Or another could argue that priests who succumb to sin, go into schism or just simply don’t make the grade DID have a true vocation, they just gave in to temptation. Really, unless God appears before us, there is no way we can know (but boy, would that make the screening process easier!)

If all of Father Shanley’s sacraments are invalid, that’s a lot of people walking around thinking that they are baptized or absolved of their sins, who are not.

No, I think that even if the priest is a terrible sinner, he is still a valid priest of God.

Otherwise, we have to judge ourselves by the holiness of the priests who give us the Sacraments, and I don’t think there are any perfect priests out there.

 

[a_cermak]

Fortunately the Church declared a long time ago that as long as the priest is validly ordained and intends to effect the Sacraments (and does them correctly) that they are valid.

Otherwise you could get into circles of doubt. Was the Bishop who ordained my priest a good person who had not sinned? Was the Bishop who ordained him? Was I really baptized? Was the priest who baptized me really baptized?

The Church was very wise in this regards.

 

[LSK]

I saw a priest or monk in the news who was supposedly known to be gay. This is my question: How can a man be in the church in this position and be allowed to stay? If he is acting in a way that conflicts with church teaching, why isn’t he let go?

Being a Homosexual and being celibate are two different things. One may be a celibate homosexual.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

So, you are saying that Catholicism says that being gay is fine.

Being gay is “disordered,” not “fine.” However, I also know of many other “disorders” that some clergy suffer from (eg. alcoholism). None are “fine” but they are instead crosses that they carry as a consequence of our fallen humanity.

 

[Demetress]

The catholic church say it the true church all them gay priest in the catholic church rapeing little boys that is sick and you all say come home.

 

[cecilia97]

So, you are saying that Catholicism says that being gay is fine. Just don’t act on it. How is that not contradictory? If being gay is seen as a natural state of being, then why isn’t the act?

By the way, was this the Catholic position prior to Vatican II?

IIRC, the Church has not made any statement about how or why people are gay, or have same-sex attraction. So it’s not clear if it’s a “natural” state of being or not.

But either way…being heterosexual is a natural state of being, and it’s still not OK to have sex with someone of the opposite sex that you’re not married to.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So, you are saying that Catholicism says that being gay is fine. Just don’t act on it. How is that not contradictory? If being gay is seen as a natural state of being, then why isn’t the act?

By the way, was this the Catholic position prior to Vatican II?

Being single and hertosexual is also just fine, just don’t act on any sexual temptations either. The Catholic Church has had the same basic teaching on homosexuality since before Vatican II. Being hoimosexual did not bar anyone from religious orders or specifically Holy Orders. Today with the Child abuse problem in the Church having been found to primarily have homosexual roots. The Church has changed it’s rule on allowing homosexual men to be ordained to the priesthood in the last five or so years.

 

[john_primeau]

On the question “How can a priest be another Christ?” May I suggest one read the Autobiography of Fulton J. Sheen - “Treasure in Clay”. I believe that a Priest although a man must live on a higher level that just us lay men. When a Priest falls, He falls farther and harder than a lay man.

 

[Church_Militant]

So, you are saying that Catholicism says that being gay is fine. Just don’t act on it. How is that not contradictory? If being gay is seen as a natural state of being, then why isn’t the act?

By the way, was this the Catholic position prior to Vatican II?

Homosexuality, though disordered, is, so far as sin is concerned, roughly equivalent to heterosexual temptation. Both are temptations. Since all believers are called to chaste living regardless of their vocation a chaste person with SSA and a chaste person who is heterosexual are actually on the same objective footing.

Both do well when they resist temptation and do not fall into sin.
SSA is a temptation, just as someone who finds you attractive may be tempted. If by grace and faith they are believers and do not act on their temptations. (Remembering here that temptation and sin are NOT the same thing), then they are doing what they are supposed to do.

A priest, being a human being suffers the same temptations as the rest of us. That’s one of the reasons that the Church has always taught that we are to pray for our priests and religious.

 

[Church_Militant]

On the question “How can a priest be another Christ?” May I suggest one read the Autobiography of Fulton J. Sheen - “Treasure in Clay”. I believe that a Priest although a man must live on a higher level that just us lay men. When a Priest falls, He falls farther and harder than a lay man.

I have that book and it’s one of my favorites. What a blessing!

 

[abenassi]

Really? We have totally different world views, I think, since I would have put homosexuality, pornography, and masturbation on one end (destroys the individual, but is essentially victimless) and adultery, divorce/remarriage, fornication, and the like at the other end (destroys the lives of children and other innocent bystanders, and impacts society as a whole).

The Catechism disagrees with both of us, though - it classes all of these as the same sin, in the section on the Ten Commandments.

Hi jmcrae,

I have to disagree with something you said. I would definitely put pornography into the second camp you noted. It destroys the person viewing the pornography, their spouse and family, the people involved in making and producing the pornography, and degrades society’s concept of the dignity of the human person. Also, partaking in pornography IS adultery by Jesus’ definition.

God Bless,

Andre