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pcordero
Guest
For example, Sodom and Gomorrah and God warning to punish Ninevah in the book of Jonah. Also, why isn’t God like this today?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well gee. Is God ‘omnibenevolent’ and what does that mean?
If I’m a parent of say two children, and they are going around trashing the kitchen, beating the dog, etc., do I just smile sweetly and say, ‘no no dears’ while they kick me in the shins?
At some point if the children are misbehaving there has to be a consequence, because it is really not good for children to be allowed to run wild, is it? It is NOT benevolent to neglect a child, and failing to stop that child from hurting himself and others.
As for not having wrath. . . well, God has given us prophets and teachers and even His only begotten Son, all of out of love for us. . .and how have we repaid Him? Running around trashing the kitchen, beating the dog, blaming each other and even blaming HIM for everything we don’t ‘like’ and saying that anything ‘wrong’ is everybody else’s fault. . .I’d say God has been extremely patient with humanity, because there have been many saints (and prophets etc. like Jonah) who have gone around and proclaimed the gospel and, at least for a while, gotten the children to ‘stop misbehaving’ and start acting right. . .
and we’d better hope that happens with this generation (and I mean everybody, not just boomers, X, Y, etc.) pretty darn soon because the kids have moved on from trashing the kitchen to the living room, the bedroom, the dining room, and out into the back yard. . .
and unless things change quickly Sodom and Gomorrah are going to look like a day at the beach compared to what God will have to do –because He is benevolent and can no longer allow us to torture ourselves and others as we have been doing–and just as having to cut out and drain a heavily infected wound can be extremely painful but necessary in order for the person to live and not die, ‘draining’ the infections humanity has wounded itself with will probably likewise be very painful but necessary. Benevolently necessary.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
I have never heard GD refered to as omnibenovalent, and I doubt seriously that is RC Doctyrine.
In any case the GD of wrath in the Old Testament sent His Son, Jesus Christ to earth, for the salvation of mankind.
The life and death of Christ and the rise of Christianity signified the change of GD the Father from a Gd of Wrath to a G*d of Mercy.
Mercy is quite differant than benevolence.
In any case the GD of wrath in the Old Testament sent His Son, Jesus Christ to earth, for the salvation of mankind.
The life and death of Christ and the rise of Christianity signified the change of GD the Father from a Gd of Wrath to a G*d of Mercy.
Mercy is quite differant than benevolence.
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
Omnibenevolence is accepted Roman Catholic belief and if you never heard of God referred to as omnibenevolent then I must welcome you to philosophy.
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
I care to mention that God’s wrath was usually carried out by his angels.
Gods wrath isn’t like our own wrath. His wrath acts upon creation and upon man, forming it and preparing it for himself. God is like a devouring fire and consumes his creation with conflict: fire sword and war. Heating it like a furnace to bake pottery. That pottery is our souls. We’re consumed in these fires to form our souls. God is like this even today. You just don’t have a prophet to tell you what God is causing in the world.
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couponfit
Guest
I like to focus on his love and not wrath. I guess we can see the negative in everything he does. I mean he made mankind but we die. He gave us the ability to love but we also feel emotional hurt when others don’t love us back. He gave us resources but we have to share them. He gave us minds to create with but we can make bad things from this like weapons. He has saved us countless times from evil but we could point out that there he had to save us in the first place so why put us in that position? I would have to wonder what a world would be life, what existence could be life if everything we wanted could be attained so what would we want or need?
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Calgar
Guest
Please define your made up word.
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empther
Guest
Was there a real Sodom and Gomorrah, and was Ninevah threathened with punishment?
The Old Testament was a primary school teaching tool for the ancient Hebrews who did not yet have the full Revelation of Christ.
Old Testament writers were free to write stories to make a pont. They weren’t history; they were parables making a point.
Does anybody still believe a flood covered the entire earth and Noah took samples of every living creature into his Ark to save them for the future? Obviously the story is meant to make a point, that all are appointed to die and we’d better have our accounts straighthened out.
Portraying God as a loving God without a desire for vengeance would have been incomprehensible to the ancient Hebrews living in the cruel world they did and not aware of Christ’s saving mission. The Scriptural writers described him as a wrathful God to make them aware sin had consequences.
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Buck_Crosswhite
Guest
Yes
Wrong
Wrong again.
Yes
Wrong
Wrong
You finally got one right.
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Buck_Crosswhite
Guest
All sin has an effect on nature and the world. Have you heard of global warming? Did you know that prior to 1980 The USA only had one year with 1000 tornadoes recorded and since 1980 there has only been one year with less than 1000 tonadoes.
How about the increase in earthquakes. Constant wars in various places. Failing economies. There will be more punishments for sin.
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Calgar
Guest
You don’t think the Holy Bible is true and without error?
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buffalo
Guest
God is perfectly loving, but also has to be perfectly just. They don’t teach much about His justice anymore.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
True, Buffalo, because ‘justice’ could not possibly involve us wonderful beings in eternal punishment. We just are too good for that, and God would be unjust in giving us anything other than eternal joy just for existing . . .
We are somehow simultaneously both too intelligent to choose ‘eternal punishment’ (nobody could ever be that dumb, right?)
but we are also too ‘limited’ to be able to understand the gravity of sin and be able to **fully comprehend and fully consent to such. **
I don’t particularly want to have to correct so many people’s misunderstanding (because I know a lot of people won’t ‘like’ to hear it and will blame the messenger). . .but at the same time, knowing I myself am far from perfect, I try as hard as I can to both listen to AND preach God’s word. I’m no longer ‘young’, my time is definitely limited on earth, and in a life that is far from what it should have been, I have been silent and complicit in many evils just because I cared more about what ‘others’ thought than what God taught. I’ll never be able to go back and relive those times and make the corrections then, but at the least, I can speak forth for Him **now. **
We are somehow simultaneously both too intelligent to choose ‘eternal punishment’ (nobody could ever be that dumb, right?)
but we are also too ‘limited’ to be able to understand the gravity of sin and be able to **fully comprehend and fully consent to such. **
I don’t particularly want to have to correct so many people’s misunderstanding (because I know a lot of people won’t ‘like’ to hear it and will blame the messenger). . .but at the same time, knowing I myself am far from perfect, I try as hard as I can to both listen to AND preach God’s word. I’m no longer ‘young’, my time is definitely limited on earth, and in a life that is far from what it should have been, I have been silent and complicit in many evils just because I cared more about what ‘others’ thought than what God taught. I’ll never be able to go back and relive those times and make the corrections then, but at the least, I can speak forth for Him **now. **
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
Oh look at how smart we are!!!
I happen to be well educated with more than one advanced degree, and have studied philosophy in University. In addition, my basic education was at the hand of the Jesuits, and I have never heard or read the term Omnibenovolence until this query.
I have learned over the years not to countenance smart a*s replies to honest inquiries, and do not have much Christian charity to such replies. If you are so smart, cite me a reference to document your claims.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Actually it appears to be a Protestant term, not found in the Catholic Catechism, at least I have not seen it, so I’d appreciate if you could reference where you’ve seen this defined as Roman Catholic belief.
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shoe
Guest
I think that in both the Old Testament and New Testament God is seen as a loving creator; but for the individuals and nations who are openly defying God’s commandments, wrath is how God’s love may come across to them: just as the child being disciplined by his parent for refusing to listen to their warnings not to play with matches may believe that the parents are being unreasonable.
“For I know the thoughts that I think towards you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of affliction…” (Jeremiah 29:11).
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Omnibenevolence?
I haven’t seen this term in Catholic theology, which is not to say that God is not all good in Catholic theology.
**For example, Sodom and Gomorrah and God warning to punish Ninevah in the book of Jonah. Also, why isn’t God like this today? **
Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the consequence of being evil cities. Justice was due, except that for Lot and his family mercy was due.
Perhaps God’s wrath is still exercised on the world in ways that we do not recognize as such. The Civil War was at least in part a consequence of slavery. Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered a fate worse than Pearl Harbor. Germany was devastated and Berlin was bombed to ashes following the Holocaust.
Evil doers usually come croppers in the worst possible way. The extent to which God builds up those consequences by making Good triumph over Evil may be part of God’s benevolence.
I haven’t seen this term in Catholic theology, which is not to say that God is not all good in Catholic theology.
**For example, Sodom and Gomorrah and God warning to punish Ninevah in the book of Jonah. Also, why isn’t God like this today? **
Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the consequence of being evil cities. Justice was due, except that for Lot and his family mercy was due.
Perhaps God’s wrath is still exercised on the world in ways that we do not recognize as such. The Civil War was at least in part a consequence of slavery. Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered a fate worse than Pearl Harbor. Germany was devastated and Berlin was bombed to ashes following the Holocaust.
Evil doers usually come croppers in the worst possible way. The extent to which God builds up those consequences by making Good triumph over Evil may be part of God’s benevolence.
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isaiah_m
Guest
We need to set human perceptions aside when we consider the true nature of God. God is in the Eternal Now, so all human existence is present to him as “now” with no past or future. He gave humanity free will to test us just as the angels were tested. When some angels failed the test, they lost God’s presence and are in constant opposition to God. Just as God respected the free will of the angels, he respects our free will. Adam and Eve lost God’s protection when they failed their test. What they lost, we must “earn” ourselves by choosing God. Abraham was justified by faith backed by his actions of obeying God.It is in a similar way we are justified.
When humans exercise their free will in opposition to God, they have chosen Satan as their leader. Satan is the source of evil embraced by those rejecting God. God releases the rebelious humans from His protection according the their choice to leave it. Satan is free to do with them as he desires, Satan, by nature, tries to convince errant humans that their suffering comes from God rather than from their lack of God.
In this context, the “destroying angels” could be viewed as Satan and his demons, or as God’s angels holding back God’s protection from rebelious humans. The whole point is that God is not the source of evil. This is why He is always waiting to receive the repentant sinner who turns from Satan to God.
When humans exercise their free will in opposition to God, they have chosen Satan as their leader. Satan is the source of evil embraced by those rejecting God. God releases the rebelious humans from His protection according the their choice to leave it. Satan is free to do with them as he desires, Satan, by nature, tries to convince errant humans that their suffering comes from God rather than from their lack of God.
In this context, the “destroying angels” could be viewed as Satan and his demons, or as God’s angels holding back God’s protection from rebelious humans. The whole point is that God is not the source of evil. This is why He is always waiting to receive the repentant sinner who turns from Satan to God.
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