How can we be modestly dressed when we are swimming

[eichenb2]

OK. I wear a two piece when i go swimming. I don’t wear one of those string things that haev little triangles to cover up my top and a small strip to cover my bottom. However, I do wear a two piece. And I don’t consciously wear it out swimming so some horny dudes will look at me. I like two pieces…just personal preferance. Do i think it’s sinful…no, becuase i’m not goign out trying to turn some dude on nor am i out there to make other women feel self-conscious, i’m jsut out there to have fun. Now I have had swimsuits that when they got wet they wouldnt’ stay on and i got rid of them. But seriously, like the other person said…it really has to do with culture and how you grew up. I married a man who grew up Southern Baptist and went to a Baptist college. I went swimmign with him one day at the schools pool and he said to me, “You are probably the first girl that has ever worn a two piece in this pool.” I was a little shocked. But then again, I grew up with a pool in teh backyard and we didn’t think of swimsuits as being sexual. They were more for just use. Although i have to say that when people put two pieces on their little 5 year old girls…that’s a little creepy.

Incidentally, I wonder if this mentally contributes to the popularity of Viagra and the like. Men are naturally stimulated by women’s bodies. This is the way God created us. Lust for a woman that is non-spouse is only disordered because of relationship. When there is over-stimulation, parts no longer work the way they are intended. Personally, I always though that leaving something to the imagination is dignified, heck …even mysterious. The bottom line that whether women believe it or not, think it or not, or agree or not, they will be perceived as “Eye Candy”.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Melanoma is a nice side benefit.

Well I have had three melanoma surgeries. As a child I grew up in south Florida and my mother would send me out to play even when she knew I would burn (light skinned). This was prior to knowing what melanoma was much less that it came from exposure to the sun.

IMHO anyone that lays in the sun to get a tan is taking a really big chance with their health and the tanning centers are just as bad as their sunbathing.

My daughter had (yes had) a young friend that died while in her twenties from melanoma. When they removed just one small spot the found that it was so widespread in her that she only lived six months after her diagnoses. She left behind a husband and two small children. She told her family and friends that a tan is not worth dying for.

 

[eichenb2]

Well I have had three melanoma surgeries. As a child I grew up in south Florida and my mother would send me out to play even when she knew I would burn (light skinned). This was prior to knowing what melanoma was much less that it came from exposure to the sun.

IMHO anyone that lays in the sun to get a tan is taking a really big chance with their health and the tanning centers are just as bad as their sunbathing.

My daughter had (yes had) a young friend that died while in her twenties from melanoma. When they removed just one small spot the found that it was so widespread in her that she only lived six months after her diagnoses. She left behind a husband and two small children. She told her family and friends that a tan is not worth dying for.

I am quite white and people comment that my skin is so pasty white, when I wear shorts in the summer (playing soccer). That is the why God created me and I love it. I will not buy into the idea that tan skin is better, absolutely. If you are born with darker pigment, praise God. I am of Germanic decent and that’s the way I roll. God don’t make mistakes!

 

[beenwashed]

Fine. Your not being aware of it or desiring it does not change that guys are on.

That is very true but at the same time, when a woman is dressed for a normal day at work, you know pants and a sweater, men can still lust after you.

 

[GraceDK]

I am quite white and people comment that my skin is so pasty white, when I wear shorts in the summer (playing soccer). That is the why God created me and I love it. I will not buy into the idea that tan skin is better, absolutely. If you are born with darker pigment, praise God. I am of Germanic decent and that’s the way I roll. God don’t make mistakes!

I find it most modest of men if they keep their shirt on at all times unless they are on the beach. I see many men in my country who go without shirt in the summer, even on the street, in the bus etc…
I dont believe you fall into that category E, because that would frankly not leave much to the imagination… and men and women alike prefer a bit of mystery of course.

 

[beenwashed]

Incidentally, I wonder if this mentally contributes to the popularity of Viagra and the like. Men are naturally stimulated by women’s bodies. This is the way God created us. Lust for a woman that is non-spouse is only disordered because of relationship. When there is over-stimulation, parts no longer work the way they are intended. Personally, I always though that leaving something to the imagination is dignified, heck …even mysterious. The bottom line that whether women believe it or not, think it or not, or agree or not, they will be perceived as “Eye Candy”.

I dont’ think women should have to walk aroudn in oversized clothes and wear skirts down to the floor just because a male can’t keep control of his thoughts. If the Catholic church believed that we would be required to dress like Muslims or the Amish. Yes there is a line when it comes to how a woman dresses. However, whether your past that line or behind the line, there is goign to be someone lusting after that woman.

And really, yes, you’re not supposed to help lead others to sin but there is only so much you can do. I’m not going to the beach and wearing bermuda shorts and a long sleeve tunic, just becuase some perv can’t get his mind straight.

You may be right about the Viagra point. Very interesting theory!!

And you are correct on your last point as well. Women will always be percieved as “eye candy” to some degree. I never said that when i walk out on the beach in my two piece that somebody didn’t look at me. However, I dont’ look back and them and bat my eyes and giggle and jump around for them, not to mention, my husband usually gives them the evil eye for me.

I almost feel this argument leads us to even bigger fish to fry, such as the multi-million dollar porn industry. I think we should go after things like Play-boy and Hustler, before we go after the little girl in a tankini who’s not allowed in the pool beucase there’s 2 inches of her belly showing.

 

[eichenb2]

The popular, secular media is sex-saturated and pushing their idea of how a woman should dress. Unfortunately, many woman (& men) who profess a Christianity, Islam, and Judaism buy into this idea, wholesale. Modesty is a concept shared by the 3 great monotheistic religions. It is lived differently, but the concept is common to all three. The reasons for modesty are even shared, with some differences. All three theologies share the belief that man-woman attraction is natural, but cannot be left unbridled; for the good of society. The modern, Christian west has largely left their Christian moral roots and adopted secular, hedonist values instead. This is specifically as regards moral theology. Relativism is the phrase of the day, so to speak. Christians and Catholics, specifically, have a rich heritage of moral, pious practices that implement these values. These values are based on the Holy Bible and Church tradition. As a new Catholic, I see no reason to just toss them and adopt the Pornified culture that the popular media presents. By the way, I would suggest this book, “Pornified” by Pamela Paul.

 

[eichenb2]

That is very true but at the same time, when a woman is dressed for a normal day at work, you know pants and a sweater, men can still lust after you.

True, but why help it by going out with your private parts painted (in a bikini). There is a scale of modesty. By the way, I think a speedo bikini is unsuitable for a Christian man, too. The men are sinful for looking and the woman is a bikini is sinful for tempting them. This is my opinion, but it solidly based on the Bible and Catechism.

1 Corinthians 10
23 Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive.

24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

 

[eichenb2]

I find it most modest of men if they keep their shirt on at all times unless they are on the beach. I see many men in my country who go without shirt in the summer, even on the street, in the bus etc…
I dont believe you fall into that category E, because that would frankly not leave much to the imagination… and men and women alike prefer a bit of mystery of course.

Well said.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

This normally applies only if the woman is reasonably fit and attractive. If she is not, you might as well be dangling bicycle in front of the dog. He will have no interest. This is not meant to be uncharitable, but a reality of nature and a fact of life.

I know what you mean: I remember being at a beach and seeing some women in bikinis who either had a thyroid condition that ruined their metabolism or who needed to seriously develop some healthier eating habits. If someone thought that looked sexy, they’re probably desperate.

 

[GraceDK]

Warning: Off topic
(Eichen… how about you share your testimony soon on a thread in the apologetic section or wherever it fits in. I am sure I and others would find it beneficial… especially to know what you are coming from and what helped you to discover Christ the Son of God… I have read many testimonies and heard a few live from former muslims who are now Christians… but I’d love to hear yours too… if you will do us the honour. God bless you… Grace)…

 

[eichenb2]

I dont’ think women should have to walk aroudn in oversized clothes and wear skirts down to the floor just because a male can’t keep control of his thoughts. If the Catholic church believed that we would be required to dress like Muslims or the Amish. Yes there is a line when it comes to how a woman dresses. However, whether your past that line or behind the line, there is goign to be someone lusting after that woman.

And really, yes, you’re not supposed to help lead others to sin but there is only so much you can do. I’m not going to the beach and wearing bermuda shorts and a long sleeve tunic, just becuase some perv can’t get his mind straight.

You may be right about the Viagra point. Very interesting theory!!

And you are correct on your last point as well. Women will always be percieved as “eye candy” to some degree. I never said that when i walk out on the beach in my two piece that somebody didn’t look at me. However, I dont’ look back and them and bat my eyes and giggle and jump around for them, not to mention, my husband usually gives them the evil eye for me.

I almost feel this argument leads us to even bigger fish to fry, such as the multi-million dollar porn industry. I think we should go after things like Play-boy and Hustler, before we go after the little girl in a tankini who’s not allowed in the pool beucase there’s 2 inches of her belly showing.

For the sake of those new to this thread, I will reiterate my view.

1. Men and Women are created with a NATURAL physical desire for each other.
2. This desire can be disordered when men of women lust for a man or women whom they are not married to.
3. Our choice of clothes should be modest, so as to not be a stumbling block for the other parties or a source of temptation for themselves. By the way, any mention of how other cultures view nudity is not pertinent to this discussion. If so, we would have to delve deeper into that society and discuss polygamy, spouse abuse, rape, and other issues that may be seen as acceptable in that culture. Since, my comments are wholly couched in Catholic teaching and directed to mostly Catholics, let us keep the discussion within these bounds.
4. Part of a womens beauty is mystery and veiling (not literally).
5. Woman and men in the US, too frequently, objectify themselves by the way the dress.
6. We must return to the Church’s teaching on Moral Theology.
7. So…Balance is the key! There are not hard and fast guidelines for men or women on how they should conduct themselves. This includes their clothing. On the other side, though, we need to dress in such a way as to not be a temptation to others. I am not suggesting Burqas or anything like it. My wife is fond of saying that one need not look frumpy to dress properly. There are many options out there and a bikini is not a good one, in my opinion.

 

[eichenb2]

For the sake of those new to this thread, I will reiterate my view.

1. Men and Women are created with a NATURAL physical desire for each other.
2. This desire can be disordered when men of women lust for a man or women whom they are not married to.
3. Our choice of clothes should be modest, so as to not be a stumbling block for the other parties or a source of temptation for themselves. By the way, any mention of how other cultures view nudity is not pertinent to this discussion. If so, we would have to delve deeper into that society and discuss polygamy, spouse abuse, rape, and other issues that may be seen as acceptable in that culture. Since, my comments are wholly couched in Catholic teaching and directed to mostly Catholics, let us keep the discussion within these bounds.
4. Part of a womens beauty is mystery and veiling (not literally).
5. Woman and men in the US, too frequently, objectify themselves by the way the dress.
6. We must return to the Church’s teaching on Moral Theology.
7. So…Balance is the key! There are not hard and fast guidelines for men or women on how they should conduct themselves. This includes their clothing. On the other side, though, we need to dress in such a way as to not be a temptation to others. I am not suggesting Burqas or anything like it. My wife is fond of saying that one need not look frumpy to dress properly. There are many options out there and a bikini is not a good one, in my opinion.

Clarification -

1. So…Balance is the key! There are not hard and fast guidelines for men or women on how they should clothe themselves. On the other side, though, we need to dress in such a way as to not be a temptation to others. I am not suggesting Burqas or anything like it. My wife is fond of saying that one need not look frumpy to dress properly. There are many options out there and a bikini is not a good one, in my opinion.

 

[beenwashed]

I dont think any of us really disagree with the idea that balance is key. :slapfight: I’m not trying to argue that it’s ok for girls to go trouncing around in a mini-skirt and a tube top. However this is a very relative topic for lack of a better term. What you find overly sexual in clothing for women, may be something that i find ok, where as someone else may find it TOO modest. An article of clothing or outfit that a woman is wearing may be a stumbling block for one man and a turn-off for another. Really the only way you could not be a stumbling block for ANY man is to wear an oversized cardboard box with a bag over your head.

I do think however that there is an aspect of other cultures that must be spoken of. Maybe not native tribes in Africa but personal upbringings. If you have a background as say a pentecoscal woman or muslim woman who converted, you will have a different opinion on modesty, than say a woman who grew up Caholic in a hot part of America (say south Texas), where you wear shorts and tank tops, almost out of necessity so you don’t burn up. :tanning:

I also think there is a difference in words, that must be used carefully. There is a big difference between lusting after someone and finding someone attractive.

 

[eichenb2]

I dont think any of us really disagree with the idea that balance is key. :slapfight: I’m not trying to argue that it’s ok for girls to go trouncing around in a mini-skirt and a tube top. However this is a very relative topic for lack of a better term. What you find overly sexual in clothing for women, may be something that i find ok, where as someone else may find it TOO modest. An article of clothing or outfit that a woman is wearing may be a stumbling block for one man and a turn-off for another. Really the only way you could not be a stumbling block for ANY man is to wear an oversized cardboard box with a bag over your head.

I do think however that there is an aspect of other cultures that must be spoken of. Maybe not native tribes in Africa but personal upbringings. If you have a background as say a pentecoscal woman or muslim woman who converted, you will have a different opinion on modesty, than say a woman who grew up Caholic in a hot part of America (say south Texas), where you wear shorts and tank tops, almost out of necessity so you don’t burn up. :tanning:

I also think there is a difference in words, that must be used carefully. There is a big difference between lusting after someone and finding someone attractive.

Collective modesty is not on the basis of hindering all lust. Pious practices of modesty come about to hinder common objects of lust. Across cultures (since you think that is pertinent), is that our private parts should be covered and concealed. I see a bikini as just a man or women’s reproductive parts being simply painted. They are concealed only slightly. Aren’t you aware that there are MUCH HOTTER climates than Texas where people still do not wear bikinis??? Consider Ethiopia, for example. They an overwhelmingly Christian country and it is much hotter than TX. You will not many Christian Ethiopian woman walking on the beach in bikinis. My larger point is that Christian need to stop navel gazing on many similar issues. I have noticed that most of the justifications for bikinis start with I… Everything must be sacrificed on the altar of my desires. The disease of modernity.

 

[bobzills]

I dont think any of us really disagree with the idea that balance is key. :slapfight: I’m not trying to argue that it’s ok for girls to go trouncing around in a mini-skirt and a tube top. However this is a very relative topic for lack of a better term. What you find overly sexual in clothing for women, may be something that i find ok, where as someone else may find it TOO modest. An article of clothing or outfit that a woman is wearing may be a stumbling block for one man and a turn-off for another. Really the only way you could not be a stumbling block for ANY man is to wear an oversized cardboard box with a bag over your head.

I do think however that there is an aspect of other cultures that must be spoken of. Maybe not native tribes in Africa but personal upbringings. If you have a background as say a pentecoscal woman or muslim woman who converted, you will have a different opinion on modesty, than say a woman who grew up Caholic in a hot part of America (say south Texas), where you wear shorts and tank tops, almost out of necessity so you don’t burn up. :tanning:

I also think there is a difference in words, that must be used carefully. There is a big difference between lusting after someone and finding someone attractive.

This of course is the typical liberal Roman Catholic standard of modesty which is in reality, extremely lax, considering the standards that other religions have. For example, muslim women have a much more conservative outliook on what is modest in swimwear.
metacafe.com/watch/1036919/swimsuit_for_muslim_women/

 

[eichenb2]

This of course is the typical liberal Roman Catholic standard of modesty which is in reality, extremely lax, considering the standards that other religions have. For example, muslim women have a much more conservative outliook on what is modest in swimwear.
metacafe.com/watch/1036919/swimsuit_for_muslim_women/

My position is that laxity is to be judged by the Bible and the Magisterium of the Church ; not by MY feelings or desires.

 

[beenwashed]

I think calling me a “liberal Roman Catholic” is a little harsh considering you dont’ really know me, this is a fairly relative argument, and I’m not a Muslim and neither are you. If we were Muslim, I would probably be wearing what you showed in your link. And from what i understood, this thread was about Roman Catholics and modesty, not Muslims and modesty. Comparing different religions and their view on modesty is like comparing apples to oranges. Would you not admit that Roman Catholics have a “more lax” view of modesty in comparison to Muslims, in general?

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

 

[bobzills]

My position is that laxity is to be judged by the Bible and the Magisterium of the Church ; not by MY feelings or desires.

Anyone can close his or her eyes to the obvious modesty and sense of decency in dress that people of other relgions have in order to justify their own lax and immoral standards.

 

[eichenb2]

Here is what I’m talking about ----> livingcatholicism.com/archives/2007/06/modesty_and_cat.html

1 Timothy 2:9 . . . [W]omen should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds as befits women who profess religion.