How can We Be Wise?

[RGCheek]

Proverbs 9:10
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.”

And yet we are told to not fear God.

All the great fathers of the God of Abraham have been described first as fearing the Lord.

If we do not fear God, how can we be wise? How can we be in affirmation of our own religion and culture if we do not fear God?

 

[Mystophilus]

On the one hand,

2Co_7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1Pe_2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

and even

Eph_5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

On the other,

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

I would suggest that the key to resolving the apparent contradiction might be found in

1Pe_2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Notably, this appears just after the above-quoted command to fear God. It appears that the sense is closer to reverence/awe than it is to terror.

As to being wise, though, I am not sure that is actually a possibility for humans.

 

[RGCheek]

On the one hand,

2Co_7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1Pe_2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

and even

Eph_5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

On the other,

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

I would suggest that the key to resolving the apparent contradiction might be found in

1Pe_2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Notably, this appears just after the above-quoted command to fear God. It appears that the sense is closer to reverence/awe than it is to terror.

Another interpretation might be that John and Paul were using hyperbole, meaning ‘irrational fear’ when fear is spoken of. But I agree that in the positive sense of fear of God it is more akin to maximum awe than terror, panic or a thing born from loss of nerve.

And what is described is a process, I think, of removing fear by growing in love.

As to being wise, though, I am not sure that is actually a possibility for humans.

So King Solomon was not wise? Whatever he had, I want it more than anything…well its the third from the top behind God and family.

I can dream can I not?

 

[GEddie]

If Scripture states that wisdom is what we should aspire to, then I’d say yes, it is possible in human life.

Scripture does state that we should aspire to wisdom.

Therefore, it is possible in human life.

Our own species name means “wise man”, and we have the equipment (large head) to get there.

Which doesn’t mean that everybody or even most folks will, of course.

ICXC NIKA

 

[RGCheek]

If Scripture states that wisdom is what we should aspire to, then I’d say yes, it is possible in human life.

Scripture does state that we should aspire to wisdom.

Therefore, it is possible in human life.

Our own species name means “wise man”, and we have the equipment (large head) to get there.

Which doesn’t mean that everybody or even most folks will, of course.

ICXC NIKA

“Aim at Heaven and you will get Earth ‘thrown in’: aim at Earth and you will get neither.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Joyful Christian

 

[Mystophilus]

If Scripture states that wisdom is what we should aspire to, then I’d say yes, it is possible in human life.

Jesus also instructs us to be perfect. What we should aspire to is not necessarily what we can achieve, not least because that achievement would leave us with nothing more to do.

 

[Mystophilus]

Another interpretation might be that John and Paul were using hyperbole, meaning ‘irrational fear’ when fear is spoken of. But I agree that in the positive sense of fear of God it is more akin to maximum awe than terror, panic or a thing born from loss of nerve.

And what is described is a process, I think, of removing fear by growing in love.

Indeed, and I suspect that it has something to do with something in Hebrew, but I cannot read Hebrew.

So King Solomon was not wise?

Not in 1 Kings 11, no.

I can dream can I not?

Always.

 

[Mintaka]

“Fear of the Lord” is supposed to be taken as something like “profound respect.”

When I was a very little kid, my dad was my favorite person and we were very close. (We still are.) But I also thought that my dad was the tallest, strongest, smartest, most impressive person in the world. To be lifted in his arms was like a roller coaster ride. I felt a great deal of awe and respect for him.

God is obviously even stronger, smarter, more impressive, more all-encompassing. We love Him and want to be near Him, but He also ought to cause us to feel awe and butterflies in the stomach. The universe is like a toy to Him, although He always treats it with utmost care and gentleness. So while trusting Him absolutely, we also have to feel amazement whenever we realize just Who we’re dealing with!

 

[RGCheek]

So King Solomon was not wise?

Great, so he was wise in every other case OUTSIDE of 1 Kings 11, cool!

I wish that would be my record after I pass on; only one case of being foolish. I have obliterated any such notion many many times over.

It is interesting that racists long used this passage to exemplify the problems with inter-racial marriage when it was really about marrying those outside the faith.

And we are supposed to have no objections today if a Catholic marries a non-Catholic?

 

[PJM]

=RGCheek;12641797]Proverbs 9:10
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.”

And yet we are told to not fear God.

All the great fathers of the God of Abraham have been described first as fearing the Lord.

If we do not fear God, how can we be wise? How can we be in affirmation of our own religion and culture if we do not fear God?

WISDOM is a gift that God alone can grant. Pray much for it:thumbsup:

 

[Mystophilus]

Great, so he was wise in every other case OUTSIDE of 1 Kings 11, cool!

?? “He was not wise in X” does not mean “he was wise in all-non-x”. Also, you might want to read that chapter, or at least the first part of it, because it is not talking about a single moment of folly.

It is interesting that racists long used this passage to exemplify the problems with inter-racial marriage when it was really about marrying those outside the faith.

When someone has a prejudice to reinforce, even the vaguest correlation will satisfy them.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Don’t be foolish… pray for LOVE, not wisdom.

 

[RGCheek]

WISDOM is a gift that God alone can grant. Pray much for it:thumbsup:

I used to do so that one day I might be normal, but now I am satisfied with maybe one day being just a wise old crank, though I am perhaps being unrealistic in this hope.

 

[RGCheek]

Don’t be foolish… pray for LOVE, not wisdom.

Why not BOTH?

 

[RGCheek]

?? “He was not wise in X” does not mean “he was wise in all-non-x”. Also, you might want to read that chapter, or at least the first part of it, because it is not talking about a single moment of folly.

While technically true, generally when people disagree with proposition X, they give all the primary arguments for or against. Leaving out some things suggests that they are not valid, suspect or for whatever reason not worth the effort.

Solomon did not understand that Isreal was a holy people and while respecting the visitor in their land is one valid requirement, that did not extend to welcoming their gods as well. And so Solomon violated the restriction on taking ‘foreign’ (not Religious Jew) spouses.

This then led him to the sin of not having any god other than Jehovah.

When someone has a prejudice to reinforce, even the vaguest correlation will satisfy them.

That is true of all of us, is it not?

Having prejudices makes the world an easier place to navigate from day to day. We all use them, but sometimes they are not appropriate.

To say ‘Yugos are not a good brand, so I will never purchase one’ is an act of prejudice, but I think it justified.

To say ‘Blacks are more given to violence than whites, therefore I will avoid them as much as possible’ is not only an act of cowardace, IMO, but it is an invalid use of deduction whether the inductive generality is true or not. Human beings have the moral right to be treated as individuals regardless of the track record of whatever demographic groups one may place them in.

Our behavior is not the product of genetics and conditioning but of moral choices and as such we have the human right to be treated as individuals.

 

[Jim_Baur]

God’s Fear is: He does not want us to miss the mark of loving, that is, sin.

When we have God’s Fear in our heart, we are afraid to miss the mark of love, sin,

 

[RGCheek]

God’s Fear is: He does not want us to miss the mark of loving, that is, sin.

When we have God’s Fear in our heart, we are afraid to miss the mark of love, sin,

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Samuel+6&version=NRSVCE

2 Samuel 6 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

David Brings the Ark to Jerusalem

6 David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 David and all the people with him set out and went from Baale-judah, to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the Lord of hosts who is enthroned on the cherubim. 3 They carried the ark of God on a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio,[a] the sons of Abinadab, were driving the new cart 4 with the ark of God;** and Ahio[c] went in front of the ark. 5 David and all the house of Israel were dancing before the Lord with all their might, with songs[d] and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals.

6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen shook it. 7 The anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God struck him there because he reached out his hand to the ark;[e] and he died there beside the ark of God. 8 David was angry because the Lord had burst forth with an outburst upon Uzzah; so that place is called Perez-uzzah,[f] to this day. 9 David was afraid of the Lord that day; he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come into my care?” 10 So David was unwilling to take the ark of the Lord into his care in the city of David; instead David took it to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11 The ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite three months; and the Lord blessed Obed-edom and all his household.**

I am sure Ussah loved God and His Ark, and yet God struck him dead because he did not OBEY.

The Love of God is first PURE then peaceful.

 

[Ignatius]

Proverbs 9:10
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.”

And yet we are told to not fear God.

All the great fathers of the God of Abraham have been described first as fearing the Lord.

If we do not fear God, how can we be wise? How can we be in affirmation of our own religion and culture if we do not fear God?

Jemes 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

[Mystophilus]

While technically true, generally when people disagree with proposition X, they give all the primary arguments for or against.

No, they don’t.

That is true of all of us, is it not?

We are engineered to do it, but not thereby required to do it.

 

[RGCheek]

No, they don’t.

We are engineered to do it, but not thereby required to do it.

No one said we are ‘hard wired’ whatever that means, to give reasons for our claims. IT is just something people do to be persuasive.

Unless they just want to be trolls and repeat disagreement at every opportunity and back it up with nothing.