How can we "Delatinize" parishes?

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'azizi Rony

I will only remark here that any “ization” from the West Syriac Churches is anecdotal at best. Albeit that things branched off, we come from the same origin, i.e, Edessa, so of course there is a certain amount of “overlap” but not in the form of an “ization”. Such an “ization” would have to work both ways, and I cannot say that it does, beyond what the East and West Syriacs share in common. 🙂 😉

For the rest, I essentially agree: the idea of replacing latinizations with byzantinizations is repugnant to me. One is as bad as the other. What’s worse than both, though, is the poisoned mindset which invites one or the other. We don’t need either: we have our own patrimony.😉
I think Bueller said it best when he said “Izations in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ization, he should believe in himself” (or something like that).
 
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ok123.mobi/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1658944

eatwellnj.com/node/3#comment-31418

reviewbluehost.com/bluehost-features/wordpress-at-bluehost/#comments

syuhu.org/norari/2012/05/aronia-review.html#comments

uah.edu/realhistory/node/419006
 
I think you would find if you took a poll that Latin Catholics that the same persons who hope you continue your return to tradition also hope that their own patrimony will be restored to them. Its not 100% of course, but I believe there would be strong correlation. But yes, it does sometimes seem that way.
The above conversation between Peter J and jwinch2 is interesting, although I wonder if we can compare the recovery of patrimony of the autonomous ritual churches with that of the Latin church. I’m very sympathetic with Eastern churches’ struggles to reclaim their patrimony. As a Latin Catholic, I’d be much less comfortable with a similar endeavor unless the following were fully recognized:
  1. The Latin tradition was never solely ‘Latin’ It has never sought to preserve only the traditions of its own church. It’s no accident that so many Doctors of the Church wrote in Greek, or even Syriac, nor is it an accident that a Latin (St. Jerome) would coin the phrase ‘veritas hebraica’.
  2. The Latin church has always been ‘multicultural’: The patristic cultures of Rome and Northern Africa differed greatly, but were mutually enriching. The Franks soon followed. As is well known, the Latin church has been enculturated in staggeringly different contexts, from Mexico to Vietnam.
  3. The dominant Latin theological school is eclectic: The Ressourcement theological movement, best represented by the journal Communio and its chief thinkers, Henri de Lubac and Hans urs von Balthasar, draw from Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant thinkers, from contemporary philosophy, and from world literature.
To be clear, I do love specifically ‘Latin’ devotions, especially Gregorian chant and Ambrosian hymns, the Liber Usualis, Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, the rosary, Benediction, all sorts of processions, the sacred music of the renaissance, statues, Florentine art, etc.

But, in calling for the Latin church to recover her patrimony, I have to ask: which patrimony. The austere simplicity of the 12th c. Cistercians? The mystical Thomism of the 13th c. Rhineland mystics? Scholasticism? The counter-reformation? The 16th c. Spanish Carmelite spirituality? Pre-reformation English ‘creeping to the cross’ devotion? Mexican devotion to Mary?

When I hear Latins call for a ‘return to the tradition’, I tend to imagine a pining for the 1950s Tridentine mass. Which is fine, as long as it’s not a truncation of the authentic diversity within the Latin tradition.

Sorry for this long, off-topic post…
 
Nice post.

A side thought … we know that the Roman Rite is the primary rite used in the Latin Church … but there’s a bit of an epidemic of people calling it “the Latin Rite” (or, conversely, saying “the Roman Church” instead of “the Latin Church”) as if the other Western Rites don’t exist …
I wonder, how would it be if we starting saying simply “the Western Catholic Church”? In some that would be even better than saying “the Latin Church” (which, as I say, many people don’t use anyhow, even though it’s correct).

P.S. Granted, that doesn’t relate at all to some of your points, e.g. Vietnam.
 
The above conversation between Peter J and jwinch2 is interesting, although I wonder if we can compare the recovery of patrimony of the autonomous ritual churches with that of the Latin church. I’m very sympathetic with Eastern churches’ struggles to reclaim their patrimony. As a Latin Catholic, I’d be much less comfortable with a similar endeavor unless the following were fully recognized:
  1. The Latin tradition was never solely ‘Latin’ It has never sought to preserve only the traditions of its own church. It’s no accident that so many Doctors of the Church wrote in Greek, or even Syriac, nor is it an accident that a Latin (St. Jerome) would coin the phrase ‘veritas hebraica’.
  2. The Latin church has always been ‘multicultural’: The patristic cultures of Rome and Northern Africa differed greatly, but were mutually enriching. The Franks soon followed. As is well known, the Latin church has been enculturated in staggeringly different contexts, from Mexico to Vietnam.
  3. The dominant Latin theological school is eclectic: The Ressourcement theological movement, best represented by the journal Communio and its chief thinkers, Henri de Lubac and Hans urs von Balthasar, draw from Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant thinkers, from contemporary philosophy, and from world literature.
To be clear, I do love specifically ‘Latin’ devotions, especially Gregorian chant and Ambrosian hymns, the Liber Usualis, Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, the rosary, Benediction, all sorts of processions, the sacred music of the renaissance, statues, Florentine art, etc.

But, in calling for the Latin church to recover her patrimony, I have to ask: which patrimony. The austere simplicity of the 12th c. Cistercians? The mystical Thomism of the 13th c. Rhineland mystics? Scholasticism? The counter-reformation? The 16th c. Spanish Carmelite spirituality? Pre-reformation English ‘creeping to the cross’ devotion? Mexican devotion to Mary?

When I hear Latins call for a ‘return to the tradition’, I tend to imagine a pining for the 1950s Tridentine mass. Which is fine, as long as it’s not a truncation of the authentic diversity within the Latin tradition.

Sorry for this long, off-topic post…
Good post. You bring up some good points to consider.
 
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