How can we offer the Body and Blood of Christ?

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Philthy[color=navy:
[QUOTE]
One can quote Scripture, and one can express what they believe Scripture to be saying, but it is impossible to “quote what Scripture is saying” You aren’t really quoting Scripture - you are paraphrasing it and expressing what you understand it to mean, which is not “authored” by God. ==============================True I cannot QUOTE what scripture is saying, But I can understand in what scripture is saying. That,s why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit whom is our teacher so that we could understand what God is saying to us. 😉 God Bless
[/QUOTE]
 
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embertx:
Can’t help it…but so did Satan…quoting scriptures to Christ. 😃

God bless
Yes ,satan could quote scriptures BUT he could not follow them. :eek: God Bless
 
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Philthy:
Romans 12:1 isn’t really there and neither is Hebrews - its mostly your interpretations. That is where your confusion lies. Got it.=============================================== So who is in denial? Romans 12;1 and Hebrews 7;27 doesn,t exist. It does in my bible. This isn,t two of the books that protestants took out is it? 😃 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Again Christ asks us to offer up ourselves as living sacrifices.(romans 12;1) Christ does not need to offer sacrifices day after day. Christ sacrificed for our sins once for all when he offered Himself. (Hebrews 7;27) God Bless
SPOKENWORD,

Please consider the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 which says:

“For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.” Jesus stands eternally before the Father as the lamb that has been slain.[Rev 5:6] This eternal sacrifice is represented at every Mass from the rising of the sun to its setting. This is the pure offering of Jesus re-presented in time. We unite ourselves with Jesus at mass as living sacrifices.

I hope this helps.
 
kmmd said:
Anthony, when I pray this prayer, I think of the Holy Mass where Jesus continually offers Himself to the Father on our behalf. In praying this prayer, I am spiritually joining my soul with the Holy Sacrifice wherever it is being offered at that moment. I am saying I truly believe in the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, Please Lord, accept this most perfect sacrifice on behalf of me and the people I love and pray for.
It is one of the deepest mysteries of our Faith that we believe that the perfect sacrifice of Jesus is in some sense on going. This prayer is a very profound statement of that belief and we humbly ask God for His infinite Mercy.
When I am feeling totally confused by aspects of the faith, I try to pray to the Holy Spirit for the gift of understanding–sometimes we can’t quite explain it, but we can understand in our hearts.

You have got to be kidding me. In order for you to be able to offer something, you must have possession of it. You cannot have possession of Christ. The wording in the prayer is very clear.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
 
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NonDenom:
You have got to be kidding me. In order for you to be able to offer something, you must have possession of it. You cannot have possession of Christ. The wording in the prayer is very clear.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
No, we are quite serious. We can offer the sacrifice because Christ gave himself to us (meaning we had “possession”). A secular example would be a mother buying a gift and giving it to her son so he could then give it to his father.

I think the biggest problem non-Catholics have with the Eucharist is that they have lost their connection to the early Church. Because of this, they don’t even have a vague grasp of our Jewish roots. The Eucharist is a zikkaron event, and the logical fulfillment of the passover.
 
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NonDenom:
You have got to be kidding me. In order for you to be able to offer something, you must have possession of it. You cannot have possession of Christ. The wording in the prayer is very clear.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Yesterday, when I recieved Jesus in the Most Holy Eucharist, I was overwhelmed by the sense of His presence. This is what the Church has always taught and no one will ever convince me it is not true. It can’t be proven with science or anything. It is about faith. The God of all the Universe comes to me (who is sinful and weak) I am certainly not worthy of this, but God chooses the weak over the powerful all the time. I offer my self back to Him. I ask the father, when I later pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet to accept the sacrifice. Time is suspended in heaven. These are mysteries to be explored not theories to be proved or disproved. This is what Catholics believe. I understand that it is difficult for nonbelievers, but to me it is very beautiful and sacred and way beyond my understanding.
 
anthony flavell:
For those of you who are familiar with The Chaplet of Divine Mercy, you will know the opening prayer for each decade

Eternal Father,
I offer you the Body and Blood,
Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son,
Our Lord, Jesus Christ,
in atonement for our sins
and those of the whole world.

How can we offer the Body and Blood of Christ? If God offered up the Body and Blood of Jesus for our sins, how is it that we can do the same, I thought that we could only accept Christ not offer him to God.

I’m totally confused
Can someone please explain this for me
Thanks
In the mass the priest says, “Pray brethren, that my Sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty.” The people pray saying, “May the Lord receive this Sacrifice from your hands to the praise and glory of His Name, for our good, and that of all His holy Church.”
 
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NonDenom:
You have got to be kidding me. In order for you to be able to offer something, you must have possession of it. You cannot have possession of Christ. The wording in the prayer is very clear.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Christ offered Himself on behalf of mankind. He offered Himself to God. It is as was said above. “My sacrifice and yours” is a true way to say it. The whole scripture supports this idea. We are the body of Christ(as Paul mentions several times) and we are to be crucified spiritually with Christ. Christ offered Himself up and we are to be united with Him in His sacrifice.

Christ is both priest and victim. The priest acts “in persona Christi” or “in the person of Christ”. As the high priest, Christ offers Himself for the entire race and He makes the sacrament of the Eucharist to be His body and blood and soul and divinity. The people act in the general priesthood.

You do not have to have possession of something in order to offer it. Christ offered Himself as a man. It is the offering of mankind to God.
 
NonDenom:

Thomistic theology states the complete opposite of your ideasof possesion.

Since God is an everlasting gift to himself within the Holy Trinity. He is Love. The nature of love is GIFT–it is offered and given. If there’s one thing that we should know about Christ is that his LOVE and his PERSON is one. Both of which are everlasting gifts for us. Therefore, in the beatific vision (Heaven), we are not just seeing God but actually receiving him as ours. In heaven we belong (owned) by God and God belong (owned) to us. This is GIFT GIVING TO THE MAX.

But the offering of the entirety of Christ to all man is not reserved for heaven alone. It is already here, it’s been here. When a practicing Catholic receives the Most Holy Eucharist, he/she is already partaking of his heavenly inheritance-the possesion of God in his being. Therefore, the Holy Eucharist is literally a foretaste of Heaven. Not a symbolic fortaste but a true fortaste of Heaven.

It is my desire and prayer that all catholics really internalize this and that our protestant brothers come to a realization of this most mind blowing of all realities.

in XT.
 
Anthony,

We offer in the same fashion that Abraham offered. When called upon by God to offer up his son Isaac, Abraham faithfully obeyed. When Isaac scaled Mount Moriah with the wood for the altar on his back (just as Christ scaled up the slope at Calvary), he questioned his father with regards to what they would offer. Abraham announced, “God will provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering” (Genesis 22:8).

Indeed this is what happened. Because of Abraham’s faithfulness, God did not demand the life of his son. Instead, he provided a goat whose horns were cause in a thicket (an allusion to Jesus when he was crowned with thorns). Note that God provided the sacrificial offering but it was Abraham who offered.

It is the exact same when we offer the Body and Blood of Christ in the Mass. We provide nothing. Nothing that we could offer after all, could ever atone for sins. God provides. We simply offer. And like Abraham, it is we and our Christian family that receive the blessing.
 
SPOKENWORD

Hebrews 7:27 is a favorite of many non-Catholics (and non-Eastern Othodox I might add):

[27] He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself. (Hebrews 7:27, RSV)

The authoer speaks of a once-for-all offering. Protestants invariably assume this means his earthly death upon the cross, that what Christ offered there, he offered once and only once, never to be repeated or rejoined. Now while we may technically say that Christ offered himself on the cross, this is not the meaning of offering in the passage. Keep reading and a few verses later you get the explicit definition of offering:

[3] For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. [4] Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. (Hebrews 8:3-4, RSV)

Note that the author is still speaking of offering “gifts and sacrifices”. Christ as our eternal High Priests offers a sacrifices as well but it is not an earthly sacrifice exclusively or even primarily for the Text says that “if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law”. Protestants say that Christ offered himself exclusively upon the cross. But the offering of which Hebrews 7:27 speaks is not an earthly offering but a heavenly offering. How can that be?

The Book of Hebrews is comparing and contrasting the Old Covenant rite of atonement with the New Covenant rite of atonement. Hebrews tells us that the Christ’s one, perfect sacrifice was written in the language of the Levitcal sacrifices. It is more correct perhaps to say that these former sacrifices prefigured or pointed to the one, perfect sacrifice of Christ, presumably that the Jews might recognize Christ’s sacrifice for what it was. In the these former sacrifices, the high priests shed the blood of an unblemished goat on the altar outside the temple sanctuary and then carried some of this blood into the Holy of Holies and offered it directly to God for the atonement of sins. Note, the rite was not concluded with the shedding of blood. To say that the shedding of blood was necessary is one thing; to say that it is sufficient is quite another.

In the same way, Christ shed his blood on the altar of the cross and then rose from the dead and ascended into true sanctuary of Heaven to present his blood, indeed his life, directly to God for the atonement of sins. When we speak of Christ’s sacrificial offering, we are speaking of atonement in two parts: the shedding of blood on earth, and the offering in heaven. Hebrews makes this point quite clear:

[11] But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) [12] he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:11-12, RSV)

Also:

[24] For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. (Hebrews 9:24, RSV)

Atonement is not something that occurred exclusively on the cross. It is something that began there and occurs even now in heaven. Christ’s shedding of blood purifies or makes efficacious the heavenly offering (Hebrews 9:22-23). Furthermore, Hebrews calls Christ our “eternal high priest”. The Bible defines the office of high priest as he who “offers gifts and sacrifices for sins” (Hebrews 5:1). The designation of “eternal high priest” is not an empty one then. It means that Christ offers on our behalf even now, that atonement occurs in heaven even now (Hebrews 7:25).

So again in Hebrews 7:27, when the author speaks of a “once for all offering”, he is not referring exclusively to Christ’s earthly death on a cross. He is referring to the whole sacrifice, both the shedding of blood and the offering in the heavenly sanctuary. This sacrifice does indeed occur “once for all” in that it is *one *sacrifice offered for all time.

When you fail to interpret Hebrews 7:27 in light of the context, you engage in a fallacy I call sound-bite theology. The Bible can be made to say anything if you pick and pry words like “once for all offering” from the page and so divorce it from the context.

If you would like to email me that we might discuss this further outside this forum, please do so. I would love to hear from you.

Best Regards and God Bless,

RodK
 
Aaron I. said:
No, we are quite serious. We can offer the sacrifice because Christ gave himself to us (meaning we had “possession”). A secular example would be a mother buying a gift and giving it to her son so he could then give it to his father.
I think the biggest problem non-Catholics have with the Eucharist is that they have lost their connection to the early Church. Because of this, they don’t even have a vague grasp of our Jewish roots. The Eucharist is a zikkaron event, and the logical fulfillment of the passover.

Hi
Christ didn’t give himself TO us, he gave himself FOR us. Big difference. God is omnipresence, he cannot be contained or held in a wafer of bread or held by us.

Gal 1:4 who gave himself for our sins, so that he should deliver us out of the present evil world, according to the will of our God and Father;

1Ti 2:6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony to be rendered in its own times;

Tit 2:14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all lawlessness, and purify to himself a peculiar people, zealous for good works.

Thanks
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
God is omnipresence, he cannot be contained or held in a wafer of bread or held by us.
Oops, NonDenom, what about the Incarnation?!

You might want to rethink your statement. . . 👍

God Bless,
VC.
 
Non-denom:

Did you realize that you echo the words of the disciples that left Christ when he asked them to believe in the New Covenant (John 6)?

God can and did it. He does it today in every Catholic mass celebrated every hour of every day.

Expand your understanding of the word LOVE. It means giving of one’s self as a gift to the other. If God is Love, then who are we to say how generous and imaginative he can be? Try to wrap your mind around the idea of the Eucharist. God is calling you to receive him in the flesh just like Mary when she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

in XT.
 
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Philthy:
One can quote Scripture, and one can express what they believe Scripture to be saying, but it is impossible to “quote what Scripture is saying” You aren’t really quoting Scripture - you are paraphrasing it and expressing what you understand it to mean, which is not “authored” by God.
SPOKEN:
True I cannot QUOTE what scripture is saying, But I can understand in what scripture is saying. That,s why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit whom is our teacher so that we could understand what God is saying to us. 😉 God Bless

Care to provide support for the contention that God will send the holy Spirit for you personally to interpret Scripture infallibly? I think not, just your interpretations of Scripture verses - which don’t necessarily say anything of the sort. History has revealed the confusion you previously spoke of . The confusion was not of the holy Spirit, it was simply the confusion of those who thought - no wait, let me change that - desperately wanted to believe and genuinely believed that they were being led by the holy Spirit - when, in fact, they were not. Simply the facts.
Phil
 
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Philthy:
Care to provide support for the contention that God will send the holy Spirit for you personally to interpret Scripture infallibly? I think not, just your interpretations of Scripture verses - which don’t necessarily say anything of the sort. History has revealed the confusion you previously spoke of . The confusion was not of the holy Spirit, it was simply the confusion of those who thought - no wait, let me change that - desperately wanted to believe and genuinely believed that they were being led by the holy Spirit - when, in fact, they were not. Simply the facts.

PhilAre you saying the Holy Spirit does not instruct us? How about Godly wisdom and understanding? :confused: God Bless
 
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