How can we protect people's social class?

[fakename]

For instance, how can we have a system where wages and employment are allowed to fluctuate if morality dictates that we should try to maintain a level of “becomingness” to every social class? That is, how can free markets exist in this manner if we need to protect everyone’s proper station in life?

 

[GEddie]

For instance, how can we have a system where wages and employment are allowed to fluctuate if morality dictates that we should try to maintain a level of “becomingness” to every social class? That is, how can free markets exist in this manner if we need to protect everyone’s proper station in life?

Who determines “proper station in life?”

Besides, purely free markets do not exist now, have not existed in over a century, and may never exist again. The days of factories using child labor or putting road kill in sausage are over, and no one misses them.

ICXC NIKA

 

[AB_Juney]

Thats the sort of wording I find in my studies of Victorian social history 0.e

 

[Michael_Mayo]

The days of factories using child labor or putting road kill in sausage are over, and no one misses them.

I’m not so sure. Cries for deregulation are louder than ever.

 

[Trishie]

You will find that some countries have a higher sense of social class division than others.
This ‘class-consciousness’ is not shared by all nations.

In a nation where everyone is welcomed for who she or he is, and can be, the problem doesn’t arise. We don’t regard people as ‘class-bound’ .
There is a basic wage only as protection for a good standard of living for all persons in the nation, and above that level is a matter for every person in the nation, with protection in place for the unemployed, the ill, the elderly.
It works very well.

 

[Julia_Mae]

For instance, how can we have a system where wages and employment are allowed to fluctuate if morality dictates that we should try to maintain a level of “becomingness” to every social class? That is, how can free markets exist in this manner if we need to protect everyone’s proper station in life?

People have a “proper station in life?” And we need to protect them? I’m very confused.

 

[Carlan]

You will find that some countries have a higher sense of social class division than others.
This ‘class-consciousness’ is not shared by all nations.

In a nation where everyone is welcomed for who she or he is, and can be, the problem doesn’t arise. We don’t regard people as ‘class-bound’ .
There is a basic wage only as protection for a good standard of living for all persons in the nation, and above that level is a matter for every person in the nation, with protection in place for the unemployed, the ill, the elderly.
It works very well.

Very Good! Some nations though are very miserly(if that is a word in this sense with their minimum or basic wage laws.Opposition parties struggle to agree with each other on what is fair. Peace, Carlan

 

[Trishie]

Australia’s national minimum wage is currently $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week which is a good beginning, and revised when required by rising costs.
Class consciousness has no part in all this but the aim is the welfare of all Australians.
I would imagine that things are not so different in the United States.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Australia’s national minimum wage is currently $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week which is a good beginning, and revised when required by rising costs.
Class consciousness has no part in all this but the aim is the welfare of all Australians.
I would imagine that things are not so different in the United States.

You’d lose that wager. It’s about half what yours is, about 7.25 hr. And not all companies are bound by it, or jobs. (Our dollar values are almost exactly equal.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

15% of us live below the poverty line. Over half of all Americans will spend at least one year of their lives living below the poverty line.

If your government sets the min wage with an eye to the welfare of people, that’s a great thing. Ours sets it with an eye to the profit margins of businesses. Unfortunately they forget when no one can afford to buy goods or services, those businesses go bankrupt right after the people do.

 

[Carlan]

Australia’s national minimum wage is currently $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week which is a good beginning, and revised when required by rising costs.
Class consciousness has no part in all this but the aim is the welfare of all Australians.
I would imagine that things are not so different in the United States.

Goodness me, we should be ashamed of ourselves , there is no comparison there is a great deal of difference. Peace, Carlan

 

[interestedman]

You’d lose that wager. It’s about half what yours is, about 7.25 hr. And not all companies are bound by it, or jobs. (Our dollar values are almost exactly equal.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

15% of us live below the poverty line. Over half of all Americans will spend at least one year of their lives living below the poverty line.

If your government sets the min wage with an eye to the welfare of people, that’s a great thing. Ours sets it with an eye to the profit margins of businesses. Unfortunately they forget when no one can afford to buy goods or services, those businesses go bankrupt right after the people do.

If minimum wage was doubled EVERYTHING would be more expensive. You know the dollar menu at fast food places? Say hello to the 2 dollar menu. Tons of businesses would just have to go out of business. Unemployment would sky rocket. There are huge consequences to raising minimum wage.

 

[StrawberryJam]

If minimum wage was doubled EVERYTHING would be more expensive. You know the dollar menu at fast food places? Say hello to the 2 dollar menu. Tons of businesses would just have to go out of business. Unemployment would sky rocket. There are huge consequences to raising minimum wage.

Ask Trishie what the food costs and gas prices are like for those who live in her country. And ask about healthcare.
I have a gut feeling that you really don’t realize how much better they are doing it then we are.

 

[Edward_H]

We shouldn’t protect their social clas only their dignity as humans.

Concern over social class is vanity. Vanity is putting your security in what other people think of you. Not what God thinks of you.

 

[LilyM]

Ask Trishie what the food costs and gas prices are like for those who live in her country. And ask about healthcare.
I have a gut feeling that you really don’t realize how much better they are doing it then we are.

Gas is currently about $5.60 Australian per US gallon - I think the dollar is about $1.03 US , which would make it about $5.85 US per gallon?

Can’t really speak to the other things too much, cept that the cheapest bread I can find is about $1.85 US a loaf and the cheapest milk about $1.03 US a litre. A Big Mac where I am is about $4 US.

The average full time wage, by the way, which must be factored in, is $71,239 US. Tax rates are roughly the same, best I can reckon, allowing for us having no state income taxes.

Then of course there’s the little fact that we only have 5% unemployment. If you got fewer folks working it kinda cancels out the advantage of having cheaper food, gas etc - a lot of them still won’t be able to afford sufficient.

 

[Julia_Mae]

If minimum wage was doubled EVERYTHING would be more expensive. You know the dollar menu at fast food places? Say hello to the 2 dollar menu. Tons of businesses would just have to go out of business. Unemployment would sky rocket. There are huge consequences to raising minimum wage.

Yup, that’s the party line. Of every party. Of course, raising the minimum wage has never actually* had* any of these consequences. But people do keep repeating the arguments as if they were backed up by hard data.

Funny how Australia seem to not be going broke paying double what we do.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Gas is currently about $5.60 Australian per US gallon - I think the dollar is about $1.03 US , which would make it about $5.85 US per gallon?

Can’t really speak to the other things too much, cept that the cheapest bread I can find is about $1.85 US a loaf and the cheapest milk about $1.03 US a litre. A Big Mac where I am is about $4 US.

The average full time wage, by the way, which must be factored in, is $71,239 US. Tax rates are roughly the same, best I can reckon, allowing for us having no state income taxes.

Then of course there’s the little fact that we only have 5% unemployment. If you got fewer folks working it kinda cancels out the advantage of having cheaper food, gas etc - a lot of them still won’t be able to afford sufficient.

I am glad we can openly get this whole gas price thing on the table.
You pay more in gas, with much more income to do so.
You never did mention healthcare, was it that you forgot?

 

[LilyM]

I am glad we can openly get this whole gas price thing on the table.
You pay more in gas, with much more income to do so.
You never did mention healthcare, was it that you forgot?

To be honest, my parents and sister are all doctors which means I hardly ever pay for anything - and it’s been a good 15 years since I needed much medical attention other than theirs. So I’m hardly a representative case.

 

[interestedman]

Yup, that’s the party line. Of every party. Of course, raising the minimum wage has never actually* had* any of these consequences. But people do keep repeating the arguments as if they were backed up by hard data.

Funny how Australia seem to not be going broke paying double what we do.

So you are saying that you could just start paying workers double what they are making now and it wouldn’t have any effect on businesses? They would just eat the profit loss or something?

 

[LilyM]

So you are saying that you could just start paying workers double what they are making now and it wouldn’t have any effect on businesses? They would just eat the profit loss or something?

Of course it would have an effect on business - workers would have more money to spend on goods and services for one thing, so it might even be a positive

However, it couldn’t be done overnight, or even within any reasonably short period of time, without some economic readjustment. But then there was significant economic pain when slavery was abolished, in those places that relied on slavery as part of their economy.

Sometimes there are higher principles at stake than the economic. I don’t know enough about the US situation to know whether this is one of those cases.

Certainly it does mean that you can’t act as if having a low minimum wage will save you - for one it hasn’t worked very well for you so far.

 

[StrawberryJam]

To be honest, my parents and sister are all doctors which means I hardly ever pay for anything - and it’s been a good 15 years since I needed much medical attention other than theirs. So I’m hardly a representative case.

Living in Chicago, I am glad to hear from a person who can tell it like it is like you are.

By the way, our gas prices in Chicago may shock you when you consider the minimum wage.

Our Healthcare, well that is another topic!

Your comments about slavery in a post after this one made me realize how you seem to have a way of thinking beyond today. Wish more in the US were so brave to do so.
But, why should I hope for that when we still are not on metric?