How can we understand this miracle?

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I read about a miracle in which a Hindu woman was lead to the Catholic Church through her dreams about Mary, who was pointing her to a particular parish which turned out to be Catholic. She did not know anything about Catholicism previously.

However, recently I read about a miracle where a lady from Africa who lost her husband, had a dream about him and he said he regretted that he was not Orthodox and was not baptized. He told her to build a church (she was wealthy), and pointed her where to go for this, and it all worked out as he said and the church was built and she was baptized Orthodox with her children.

However I don’t understand, - since there is one true Church we would expect that everyone would be lead there? However here we have an example of one family being lead to the Catholic Church, and another to the Orthodox Church. :confused: I do believe there is a one true Church, I just don’t understand these miraculous conversions. I’m glad both these families found the Sacraments. This definitely supports traditional Chrisitianity. But since the teachings of these churches differ on some points, it makes sense for one to be closer to the truth than the other… maybe we’ll never know the explanation and how God works, but does anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
However I don’t understand, - since there is one true Church we would expect that everyone would be lead there? However here we have an example of one family being lead to the Catholic Church, and another to the Orthodox Church. :confused: I do believe there is a one true Church, I just don’t understand these miraculous conversions. I’m glad both these families found the Sacraments. This definitely supports traditional Chrisitianity. But since the teachings of these churches differ on some points, it makes sense for one to be closer to the truth than the other… maybe we’ll never know the explanation and how God works, but does anyone have any thoughts on this?
If you do some reading and asking around, you will soon discover that people of every religious persuasion have stories to tell of how they were supernaturally led to that faith community. Catholicism has no monopoly on guiding dreams, synchronicities, and other signs leading to powerful conversions.

You may decide that the Catholic phenomena are authentic, and all others are counterfeit. If you decide that, it won’t be on the basis of the character of the experiences for the people who have them; it will be on the basis of your theological convictions about the Catholic Church. In that case, the theology “trumps” the experiences, because the theology determines which people are led, and which people are misled.

You may decide that all such experiences are from God, suggesting that God isn’t so particular about people being led only to the Catholic Church. This, of course, is very hard to square with Catholic teachings.

Or you may decide that all such experiences are illusory, powerful though they may be, and people shouldn’t be guided by them.
 
Maybe all Orthodox aren’t lead to convert to the Catholic Church because God wants the churches to reunite? I mean, the people from that story, it’s not like they rejected the Catholic Church… maybe they didn’t know much about it, maybe their region was primarily Orthodox… I don’t know.
 
Maybe all Orthodox aren’t lead to convert to the Catholic Church because God wants the churches to reunite? I mean, the people from that story, it’s not like they rejected the Catholic Church… maybe they didn’t know much about it, maybe their region was primarily Orthodox… I don’t know.
This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps Orthodoxy was what her husband sincerely believed in when he was alive, and for God’s purposes He wanted her to have this church built there, especially since that area was mostly Orthodox, and they do have valid sacraments.

And then again, it may have just been an ordinary dream and she acted on it.
 
These seeming contradictions are definitely puzzling, I agree. Perhaps, if these experiences are both genuine revelations, then they are just part of God’s mysterious plan that is beyond our understanding in this life. As you mentioned, maybe it is because of a future where the churches will reunite.

This is certainly an interesting topic and I will keep an eye out to see what others think.🍿

:blessyou:
 
I read about a miracle in which a Hindu woman was lead to the Catholic Church through her dreams about Mary, who was pointing her to a particular parish which turned out to be Catholic. She did not know anything about Catholicism previously.

However, recently I read about a miracle where a lady from Africa who lost her husband, had a dream about him and he said he regretted that he was not Orthodox and was not baptized. He told her to build a church (she was wealthy), and pointed her where to go for this, and it all worked out as he said and the church was built and she was baptized Orthodox with her children.

However I don’t understand, - since there is one true Church we would expect that everyone would be lead there?
from Wikipedia
The Orthodox Church, officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church [note 1] and commonly referred to as the Eastern Orthodox Church,[4] is the dominant Christian denomination in Greece, Romania, Moldova, Cyprus, Georgia and the Slavic countries of Russia, Belarus, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria and Ukraine. It considers itself to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ and his Apostles almost 2,000 years ago. Orthodoxy is the second largest Christian communion in the world, with an estimated 300 million adherents.
The Orthodox Church is composed of several self-governing ecclesial bodies, each geographically and nationally distinct but theologically unified. Each self-governing (or autocephalous) body, often but not always encompassing a nation, is shepherded by a synod of bishops whose duty, among other things, is to preserve and teach the Apostolic and patristic traditions and related church practices. As in the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, Assyrian Church of the East, Oriental Orthodoxy and some other churches, Orthodox bishops trace their lineage back to the Apostles through the process of Apostolic Succession.
One Church. But we don’t get to define exactly how it works. Possibly this is part of healing the schism in future. These, our brothers and sisters, are all part of the Body of Christ. Including the guy who died and came to his wife in a dream. When we cross over, it’s not like all the Roman Catholics will be at the front of the line.
 
Thanks for the replies… well here is the original description of the miracle:
A few years ago was the following miraculous event in a woman from Johannesburg, South Africa.
Carol Catherine, African-English descent, had nothing in former life with Orthodoxy and Hellenism. Very wealthy, distinguished professionals in the field of advertising, a mother of two girls, was left a widow as the architect husband Anthony had died of cancer.
Three months after his death, Anthony began to appear in dreams of his wife, talking about Orthodoxy, about how unfortunate he was that he did not have the chance to be Orthodox on earth and how he wanted his wife and the girls to be baptized and not to be deprived of grace like that.
For several evenings he appeared in her sleep, giving her very specific instructions to build on the vast estate at Kyalami a church dedicated to San Antonio. He talked about our saints and especially his saint.
He gave her the name of the contractor that would undertake the project. He explained in detail the architectural design through her sleep.
When the wife found the contractor in the phone book and contacted him, she was amazed…
By obedience to her husband, she began the construction of the church, such as she had seen in her sleep. When presented with difficulties, Anthony appeared in the sleep of the contractor and it was resolved.
In a short time the church of St. Anthony was finished, launched, functioned, and Carol with the girls were baptized Orthodox.
This is one of the many great miracles of love of our God to us humans. She told us the history when we visited the estate , lit the candle in the chapel, and left speechless.
The confusing part is that there are similar miracles that have pointed people to the Catholic Church instead… I’ll give another example in my next post…

does anyone know if there are many Orthodox churches in Johannesburg?
 
A Catholic miracle…

This is a true story that happened in Mississippi in 1944. It was told by Father O’Leary who was involved in the story and left an audio recording telling it. As Fr O’Leary tells, it’s a story about a man called Claude Newman who worked in the fields for a landowner. He was married, and one day when he was plowing the fields another worker ran to tell him that his wife was screaming from the house. Claude ran into the house and found a man who was attacking his wife. In shock and anger, Claude grabbed an axe and killed the man. Then it was seen that the man was the landowner’s favourite employee. Claude was arrested and sentenced to the death penalty in an electric chair. Here is Father O’Leary’s story of what happened after:

"While he was in jail awaiting execution, he shared a cell-block of some sort with four other prisoners. One night, the five men were sitting around talking and they ran out of conversation. Claude noticed a medal on a string around another prisoner’s neck. He asked what it was, and the Catholic boy told him that it was a medal. Claude said, “What is a medal?” The Catholic boy could not explain what a medal was or what its purpose was. At that point, and in anger, the Catholic boy snatched the medal from his own neck and threw it on the floor at Claude’s feet with a curse and a cuss, telling him to take the thing. Claude picked up the medal, and with permission from the prison attendants, placed it on a string around his own neck. To him it was simply a trinket, but he wanted to wear it.

During the night, sleeping on top of his cot, he was awakened with a touch on his wrist. And there stood, as Claude told the priest later, the most beautiful woman that God ever created. At first he was very frightened. The Lady calmed down Claude, and then said to him, “If you would like Me to be your Mother, and you would like to be My child, send for a priest of the Catholic Church.” With that She disappeared…Claude immediately became terrified, and started to scream “a ghost, a ghost”, and fled to the cell of one of the other prisoners. Then he started screaming that he wanted a Catholic priest.

Father O’Leary , the priest who tells the story, was called first thing the next morning. He arrived and found Claude who told him of what had happened the night before. Then Claude, along with the other four men in his cell-block, asked for religious instruction, for catechism.

Initially, Father O’Leary had difficulty believing the story. The other prisoners told the priest that everything in the story was true; but of course, they neither saw nor heard the vision of the Lady.

Father O’Leary promised to teach them catechism, as they had requested. He went back to his parish, told the rector what had happened, and returned to the prison the next day to give instruction.

It was then that the priest learned that Claude Newman could neither read nor write at all. The only way he could tell if a book was right-side-up was if the book contained a picture. Claude had never been to school. And his ignorance of religion was even more profound. He knew nothing at all about religion. He did not know who Jesus was. He did not know anything except that there was a God.

Claude began receiving instructions, and the other prisoners helped him with his studies. After a few days, two of the religious Sisters from Father O’Leary’s parish-school obtained permission from the warden to come to the prison. They wanted to meet Claude, and they also wanted to visit the women in the prison. On another floor of the prison, the Sisters then started to teach some of the women-prisoners catechism as well.

Several weeks passed, and it came time when Father O’Leary was going to give instructions about the Sacrament of Confession. The Sisters too sat in on the class. The priest said to the prisoners, “Okay, boys, today I’m going to teach you about the Sacrament of Confession.”

Claude said, “Oh, I know about that!”

“The Lady told me,” said Claude, “that when we go to confession we are kneeling down not before a priest, but we’re kneeling down by the Cross of Her Son. And that when we are truly sorry for our sins, and we confess our sins, the Blood He shed flows down over us and washes us free from all sins.”

Father O’Leary and the Sisters sat stunned with their mouths wide open. Claude thought they were angry and said, “Oh don’t be angry, don’t be angry, I didn’t mean to blurt it out.”

The priest said, “We’re not angry. We’re just amazed. You have seen Her again?”

Claude said, “Come around the cell-block away from the others.”

When they were alone, Claude said to the priest, “She told me that if you doubted me or showed hesitancy, I was to remind you that lying in a ditch in Holland, in 1940, you made a vow to Her which She’s still waiting for you to keep.” And Father O’Leary recalls, “Claude told me exactly what the vow was.” This convinced Father O’Leary that Claude was telling the truth about his visions of Our Lady.

They then returned to the catechism class on Confession. And Claude kept telling the other prisoners, “You should not be afraid to go to confession. You’re really telling God your sins, not this priest, or any priest. We’re telling God our sins.” Then Claude said, “You know, the Lady said [that Confession is] something like a telephone. We talk through the priest to God and God talks back to us through the priest.”
 
About a week later, Father O’Leary was preparing to teach the class about the Blessed Sacrament. The Sisters were present for this too. Claude indicated that the Lady had also taught him about Holy Communion, and he asked if he could tell the priest what She said. The priest agreed immediately. Claude related, “The Lady told me that in Communion, I will only see what looks like a piece of bread. But She told me that THAT is really and truly Her Son. And that He will be with me just for a few moments as He was with Her before He was born in Bethlehem. And that I should spend my time like She did, in all Her time with Him, in loving Him, adoring Him, thanking Him, praising Him and asking Him for blessings. I shouldn’t be bothered by anybody else or anything else. But I should spend those few minutes with Him.”

Eventually they finished the instructions, Claude was received into the Catholic Church, and the time came for Claude to be executed. He was to be executed at five minutes after twelve, midnight.

The sheriff asked him, “Claude, you have the privilege of a last request. What do you want?” “Well,” said Claude, “you’re all shook up. The jailer is all shook up. But you don’t understand. I’m not going to die. Just this body. I’m going to be with Her. So, can I have a party?”

“What do you mean?”, asked the sheriff.

“A Party!” said Claude. “Will you give Father permission to bring in some cakes and ice cream and will you allow the prisoners on the second floor to be turned loose in the main room so that we can all be together and have a party?”

“Somebody might attack Father,” cautioned the warden.

Claude turned to the men who were standing by and said, “Oh no, they won’t. Will you fellas?”

So, the priest visited a wealthy patron of the parish, and she supplied the ice cream and cake. They had their party.

Afterwards, because Claude had requested it, they made a Holy Hour. The priest had brought prayer books from the Church and they all said together the Stations of the Cross, and a had a Holy Hour, without the Blessed Sacrament.

Afterwards, the men were put back in their cells. The priest went to the chapel to get the Blessed Sacrament so that he could give Claude Holy Communion.

Father O’Leary returned to Claude’s cell. Claude knelt on one side of the bars, the priest knelt on the other, and they prayer together as the clock ticked toward Claude’s execution.

Fifteen minutes before the execution, the sheriff came running up the stairs shouting, “Reprieve, Reprieve, the Governor has given a two-week reprieve!” Claude had not been aware that the sheriff and the District Attorney were trying to get a stay of execution for Claude to save his life. When Claude found out, he started to cry.

The priest and the sheriff thought it was a reaction of joy because he was not going to be executed. But Claude said, “Oh you men don’t know. And Father, you don’t know. If you ever looked into Her face, and looked into Her eyes, you wouldn’t want to live another day.”

Claude then said, “What have I done wrong these past weeks that God would refuse me my going home?” And the priest said that Claude sobbed as one who was brokenhearted.

The sheriff left the room. The priest remained and gave Claude Holy Communion. Claude eventually quieted down. Then Claude said, “Why? Why must I still remain here for two weeks?”

The priest had a sudden idea. He reminded Claude about a prisoner in the jail who hated Claude intensely. This prisoner had led a horribly immoral life, and he too was sent to be executed.
 
The priest said, “Maybe Our Blessed Mother wants you to offer this denial of being with Her for his conversion.” The priest continued, “Why don’t you offer to God every moment you are separated from Her for this prisoner so that he will not be separated from God for all eternity.”

Claude agreed, and asked the priest to teach him the words to make the offering. The priest complied. At the time, the only two people who knew about this offering were Claude and Father O’Leary.

The next day, Claude said to the priest, “That prisoner hated me before, but Oh! Father, how he hates me now!” The priest said, “Well, that’s a good sign.” Two weeks later, Claude was executed.

Father O’Leary remarked, “I’ve never seen anyone go to his death as joyfully and happily. Even the official witnesses and the newspaper reporters were amazed. They said they couldn’t understand how anyone could go and sit in the electric chair actually beaming with happiness.”

His last words to Father O’Leary were, “Father, I will remember you. And whenever you have a request, ask me, and I will ask Her.”

Two months later, the white man, who had hated Claude, was to be executed. Father O’Leary said, “This man was the filthiest, most immoral person I had ever come across.” His hatred for God, for everything spiritual," said the priest, “defied description.”

Just before his execution, the county doctor pleaded with this man to at least kneel down and say the Our Father before the sheriff would come for him. The prisoner spat in the doctor’s face.

When he was strapped into the electric chair, the sheriff said to him, “If you have something to say, say it now.”

The condemned man started to blaspheme. All of a sudden the condemned man stopped, and his eyes became fixed on the corner of the room, and his face turned to one of absolute horror.

He screamed.

Turning to the sheriff, he then said, “Sheriff, get me a priest!”

Now, Father O’Leary had been in the room because the law required a clergyman to be present at executions. The priest, however, had hidden himself behind some reporters because the condemned man had threatened to curse God if he saw a clergyman at all.

Father O’Leary immediately went to the condemned man. The room was cleared of everyone else, and the priest heard the man’s confession. The man said he had been a Catholic, but turned away from his religion when he was 18 because of his immoral life.

When everyone returned to the room, the sheriff asked the priest, “What made him change his mind?”

"I don’t know " said Father O’Leary, “I didn’t ask him.”

The sheriff said, “Well, I’ll never sleep if I don’t.”

The Sheriff turned to the condemned man and asked, “Son, what changed your mind?”

The prisoner responded, “Remember that black man * Claude - who I hated so much? Well he’s standing there [he pointed], over in that corner. And behind him with one hand on each shoulder is the Blessed Mother. And Claude said to me, ‘I offered my death in union with Christ on the Cross for your salvation. She has obtained for you this gift, to see your place in Hell if you do not repent.’ I was shown my place in Hell, and that’s when I screamed.”
 
I think I’m also confused because I was baptized Orthodox as a child, and then became Catholic… so to be honest when I first read the story of the Orthodox miracle it made me worry that I made the wrong choice. 🤷 I am still wondering about it.
 
I think I’m also confused because I was baptized Orthodox as a child, and then became Catholic… so to be honest when I first read the story of the Orthodox miracle it made me worry that I made the wrong choice. 🤷 I am still wondering about it.
Are you wondering about our pope being the visible head of the Church, and our Lord Jesus Christ giving the keys to Peter?
 
I think I’m also confused because I was baptized Orthodox as a child, and then became Catholic… so to be honest when I first read the story of the Orthodox miracle it made me worry that I made the wrong choice. 🤷 I am still wondering about it.
Monica, these two churches were once the One and only Church, they are both from the ancient ecclesia Jesus founded. I don’t know what caused the schism, just as I don’t know why the prisoner who repented at the last moment wasn’t given that vision two weeks before in his cell so he could have more time for repentance or why anything happens as it does that God wills.

But if you felt called to the Roman Catholic Church, then I think you can trust that call and trust you are where God wants you to be.

This makes me think of the story in the Gospels where the disciples point to a man and say to Jesus, “He is baptizing in Your Name, but he’s not part of our group, should we stop him?” and Jesus says no, that those who are not against us are for us. Other Churches have valid Sacraments, too. God just wants us all, and I think He will call us to Himself any way He thinks we can best get there.
 
Thanks for the replies 🙂

Yes sometimes I wonder about the Papacy, but it’s not an intellectual doubt, it’s more of a feeling of fear/anxiety. Intellectually I believe in the Catholic Church.

I was thinking… at my old Protestant church, the pastor really felt called to be a pastor. Maybe it’s sort of similar. Maybe God doesn’t give everyone the full truth, for His reasons, and perhaps His intention is to lead them to fuller truth eventually but He gives to everyone according to His will. If we are in the Church, that does not make us ‘better’ at all. And the Church is true… I do believe that God wants everyone to find unity in the Church and to be Catholic. But maybe for His own reasons, or because someone might not be ready, or because of the good they can do in a specific way, He places them in an Orthodox or even a Protestant church for a time. I think when I was Protestant, it’s where I needed to be at the time. Later God lead me to the Sacraments.

Maybe one day something would happen so that all Christians would reunite in the Church again. 🙂 and for now, He guides individuals towards all truth.
 
Thanks for the replies 🙂

Yes sometimes I wonder about the Papacy, but it’s not an intellectual doubt, it’s more of a feeling of fear/anxiety. Intellectually I believe in the Catholic Church.

I was thinking… at my old Protestant church, the pastor really felt called to be a pastor. Maybe it’s sort of similar. Maybe God doesn’t give everyone the full truth, for His reasons, and perhaps His intention is to lead them to fuller truth eventually but He gives to everyone according to His will. If we are in the Church, that does not make us ‘better’ at all. And the Church is true… I do believe that God wants everyone to find unity in the Church and to be Catholic. But maybe for His own reasons, or because someone might not be ready, or because of the good they can do in a specific way, He places them in an Orthodox or even a Protestant church for a time. I think when I was Protestant, it’s where I needed to be at the time. Later God lead me to the Sacraments.

Maybe one day something would happen so that all Christians would reunite in the Church again. 🙂 and for now, He guides individuals towards all truth.
I agree with a lot of what you said, God does work in mysterious ways. He works with all Christians from where they are coming, and the Holy Spirit can lead them into all truth. A lot of that can happen by the way we interact with other Christians in love and concern for them. That is what we should be doing… “That all may be one”. 🙂
 
I will never understand why the two have not become one by this point.

I admit it is a reason to add to my doubt of God.
 
God is infinite patience. Sacrifice, humility, and prayer from all sides is necessary.
 
Thanks for the replies 🙂

Yes sometimes I wonder about the Papacy, but it’s not an intellectual doubt, it’s more of a feeling of fear/anxiety. Intellectually I believe in the Catholic Church.

I was thinking… at my old Protestant church, the pastor really felt called to be a pastor. Maybe it’s sort of similar. Maybe God doesn’t give everyone the full truth, for His reasons, and perhaps His intention is to lead them to fuller truth eventually but He gives to everyone according to His will. If we are in the Church, that does not make us ‘better’ at all. And the Church is true… I do believe that God wants everyone to find unity in the Church and to be Catholic. But maybe for His own reasons, or because someone might not be ready, or because of the good they can do in a specific way, He places them in an Orthodox or even a Protestant church for a time. I think when I was Protestant, it’s where I needed to be at the time. Later God lead me to the Sacraments.

Maybe one day something would happen so that all Christians would reunite in the Church again. 🙂 and for now, He guides individuals towards all truth.
A beautiful post.
 
I will never understand why the two have not become one by this point.

I admit it is a reason to add to my doubt of God.
what about free will?

God is very patient with us. I’m sure He would want the Churches to reunite. But since it’s the Church leaders who must agree to this, - He can’t force them, they must consent through their free will. One issue is difference in doctrine: Catholics believe in the Papacy, and the Orthodox do not, so - one view must be true… but somehow the side that is incorrect would be convinced of the truth. As a Catholic, I believe the Catholics are correct about the Papacy. So the Orthodox would need to somehow come to believe in it. Maybe it would take a miracle later on in the future, when the time is right.

Based on Pope Benedict’s words, he really wants unity. I’m sure the Orthodox want unity as well. But we all want real unity, where we all believe the same doctrines, as Scripture tells us “be of one mind”. For now, what we can do is perhaps not fight each other and show charity.

God bless
 
One issue is difference in doctrine: Catholics believe in the Papacy, and the Orthodox do not, so -
Do you know how this works? Is it that the Orthodox interpret “build my Church on Peter” differently? Or do they accept that, but think the Papacy should be structured differently?

Or what?
 
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