How Can You and i be Perfect?

[Socrates4Jesus]

I hope that I’m not interfering in the posts expressly addressed to Edwin (who is perfectly capable of answering himself–indeed, I hope he does)! I only respond as I heartily appreciate any good analysis of English grammar especially as it pertains to the derivative process and Scripture. Indeed, now outside of academia, it is rare that I find worthwhile opportunities to exercise whatever I may have retained from my own years of graduate level grammar! It’s just gotta be good for something, right!? You just can’t get this stuff discussing Blue’s Clues.
…

I do appreciate your offering to assist with the dialog, Jane, and hope you will enlighten me. I trust Edwin will not mind.

I sincerely hope that others will do the same, as i have learned from experience that God often chooses to speak to me through the mouths of many, each one giving me a piece of the puzzle of an idea of truth, until the image finally comes into view, which gives me great joy.

I was beginning to think that my questions so offended Catholics that they had abandoned me to the Lutheran and Episcopalian. I feared that my hope of learning what Catholics believe and testing those beliefs to see if they are true was in vain. Your entering the conversation renews my hope.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

…Interestingly, the English, as you have presented above, does not treat the future tense very well. As you have pointed out previously, English is too poor to allow the full sense of the future tense of “to be,” as it appears classically. So, then, the question, indeed, becomes why “be” and not “become”?

I believe the answer lies in the poverty of language.

If the English translations were to use “become,” it would limit the possibility of active grace at work. It would require an exclusivity and particularity which the Greek does not.

We use “be” because it, grammatically or not, best allows the fullest sense of Christ’s command and prophetic injunction.
…

I see that i am in the presence of someone who understands grammar (both Greek and English) far better than i. I must admit, as i blush, that i do not quite grasp what you say. Since you are a teacher of those who watch Blues Clues, however, i trust you will be able to talk down to my level. Will you please explain, perhaps by way of an example or two, why be is a more accurate English word to use than become?

I believe that what you are saying is correct that be is a more accurate word to use than become in Matthew 5:48. In fact, i’m confident this is the case because different methods of translating the Bible result in the same choice of words for this verse.

I know that there are translations of the Bible that have the goal of being true to every word, and so attempt to translate every Greek word in the New Testament to its exact English counterpart. The New American Standard Bible, for example, is one, and it translates the text this way:

"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."Then there are those Bibles that are not word-for-word translations, rather, they are thought-for-thought translations. These translations take certain liberties with the words and choose a different word if it results in a better understanding of the passage. The New International Version is one, and it translates the text this way:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."While i can understand the NASB not choosing become, even if the meaning of the passage suffers, i cannot understand the NIV doing the same. If “become perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect” gave a more accurate meaning of the passage, then the translators of such a though-for-thought translation would have chosen this word.

So, yes, i agree with you that be is the correct word to use, and even the Roman Catholic New American Bible renders the passage:

"So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect."Still, i would very much like to understand what you meant by saying:

*If the English translations were to use “become,” it would limit the possibility of active grace at work. …**We use “be” because it, grammatically or not, best allows the fullest sense of Christ’s command and prophetic injunction.*Specifically, what is the fullest sense of Christ’s command to “be as perfect as God”? and can you explain by way of an example, or two examples, so that this immature mind of mine might begin to see what you see?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Jane:

It might also help my small mind if you tell me which of these definitions the translators probably had in mind when they used the word be.

1.to exist or live: *Shakespeare’s “To be or not to be” is the ultimate question. *

2.to take place; happen; occur: *The wedding was last week. *

3.to occupy a place or position: *The book is on the table. *

4.to continue or remain as before: *Let things be. *

5.to belong; attend; befall: *May good fortune be with you. *

6.(used as a copula to connect the subject with its predicate adjective, or predicate nominative, in order to describe, identify, or amplify the subject): *Martha is tall. John is president. This is she. *

7.(used as a copula** to introduce or form interrogative or imperative sentences**): Is that right? Be quiet! Don’t be facetious.
**
8.(used with the present participle of another verb to form the progressive tense): *I am waiting. *

9.(used with the present participle or infinitive of the principal verb to indicate future action): *She is visiting there next week. He is to see me today. *

10.(used with the past participle of another verb to form the passive voice): *The date was fixed. It must be done. *

11.(used in archaic or literary constructions with some intransitive verbs to form the perfect tense): *He is come. Agamemnon to the wars is gone. *

​

If you will be so kind, please choose a number (1 - 11).

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… As Edwin has already suggested, I think the be/become issue is tired. Perhaps a more profitable study is the concept of “perfect”??? What is the Scriptural sense of human perfection?
…

I agree that understanding the idea of moral perfection (being as perfect as God) and how one might achieve this state is a noble goal. There might be none more pleasing to God. That is, in fact, my desire, which is why i am so earnest in my pursuit of the meaning of our beloved Redeemer’s words:

“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”“That’s absurd!” remarked one skeptic in this discussion thread. “Nobody is perfect!” I must admit that when i was younger and a Catholic i did not believe anyone could be (present tense) perfect. In great despair i left the Catholic church, thinking i was without God and without hope in this world.

Yet i have come to trust Jesus’ words, as He has never failed to speak the truth to me before. My son wrote in his Bible when he was very young, “I know God is real because every question I ever had about him has an answer” and this is a truth i have discovered myself.

If there is hope of my being perfect, Jesus certainly knows how to achieve this state of being, so i’m trusting in His words, and the words of His authors of the Bible to show me how. There is a reason Jesus chose the word be and not become. My hope is that discovering that reason will help me see, in fact, i can be as perfect as God. This would please Him, i think, and pleasing Him will please me.

Tiresome it might be to you to you to look so closely at every word that comes from the mouth of God, but this is that for which i hunger, and i believe Jesus approves, for He tells me:

… "It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ "(Matthew 4:4)I think it is good to not live on some words of God, but to rather live on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord i cannot help but love, so i will follow the disciple’s advice:

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.(Galatians 6:9)So, yes, i agree that i should learn the meaning of the word perfect. However, i do not agree that knowing the meaning of the word be is not important, for every word in a sentence determines the meaning of the sentence. If i want to understand what our loving Savior meant, i must understand His every word. No matter how tired i become, i will not rest until i know the meaning of each word of even this one passage:

“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

 

[JaneFrances]

I see that i am in the presence of someone who understands grammar (both Greek and English) far better than i.

You flatter and misunderstand me. I thank you for your kind consideration, but please, you needn’t patronize me with self-abasement as I am quite confident that you are particularly able to understand such grammatical nuances.

Will you please explain, perhaps by way of an example or two, why be is a more accurate English word to use than become?

Absolutely. To use the verb “become,” in the English, requires a future tense and does not allow any other. The verb “be”, or as you have pointed out the infinitive “to be”, is much more hospitable to other senses, without ignoring or limiting the present and future tenses.

In this specific passage, Christ is speaking to his disciples. His injunction is meant for the group which would most certainly include sinners. These sinners, in the context of time, are looking forward to the Passion and Resurrection which brings forth the grace necessary for the salvation of mankind. So, perfection, through Christ by salvific grace, is necessarily a future possibility in the actual scenario.

NOW, this does not excuse these same disciples from the call to daily conversion and, as St. Paul describes, being “made perfect” in the present, which would allow the English “be” as an appropriate translation.

So, yes, i agree with you that be is the correct word to use, and even the Roman Catholic New American Bible renders the passage:

One must also consider, despite all honest and sufficient efforts towards accuracy, any given translation is just that–translation. God’s word is perfect and inerrant, yet things still get lost in translation.

Still, i would very much like to understand what you meant by saying:

*If the English translations were to use “become,” it would limit the possibility of active grace at work. …*We use “be” because it, grammatically or not, best allows the fullest sense of Christ’s command and prophetic injunction.

As I explained above, to use “become” disallows the present tense. To use the English infinitive does not, according to common usages.

Specifically, what is the fullest sense of Christ’s command to “be as perfect as God”?

The fullest sense, as I understand it, is that Christ’s grace is active and powerful to bring creation to perfection in the course of time and eternity.

and can you explain by way of an example, or two examples, so that this immature mind of mine might begin to see what you see?

Immature minds do not tend to engage in this sort of dialogue.

 

[JaneFrances]

Jane:

It might also help my small mind if you tell me which of these definitions the translators probably had in mind when they used the word be.

1.to exist or live: *Shakespeare’s “To be or not to be” is the ultimate question. *

2.to take place; happen; occur: *The wedding was last week. *

3.to occupy a place or position: *The book is on the table. *

4.to continue or remain as before: *Let things be. *

5.to belong; attend; befall: *May good fortune be with you. *

6.(used as a copula to connect the subject with its predicate adjective, or predicate nominative, in order to describe, identify, or amplify the subject): *Martha is tall. John is president. This is she. *

7.(used as a copula** to introduce or form interrogative or imperative sentences**): Is that right? Be quiet! Don’t be facetious.
**
8.(used with the present participle of another verb to form the progressive tense): *I am waiting. *

9.(used with the present participle or infinitive of the principal verb to indicate future action): *She is visiting there next week. He is to see me today. *

10.(used with the past participle of another verb to form the passive voice): *The date was fixed. It must be done. *

11.(used in archaic or literary constructions with some intransitive verbs to form the perfect tense): *He is come. Agamemnon to the wars is gone. *

​

If you will be so kind, please choose a number (1 - 11).

I wish I could. Once again, at best, I think the fullest sense of Christ’s words are an amalgam which applies and pertains to all the Church, saints and sinners alike.

 

[JaneFrances]

“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”“That’s absurd!” remarked one skeptic in this discussion thread. “Nobody is perfect!” I must admit that when i was younger and a Catholic i did not believe anyone could be (present tense) perfect. In great despair i left the Catholic church, thinking i was without God and without hope in this world.

As I have no idea of your experience within the Church, I can not respond except to say that it is unfathomable to me that any Catholic receiving the Lord’s Body and Blood or seeking His perfect forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation could make such a statement. My hope is that your despair in rejecting Christ’s Church is a function of a misunderstanding. I have several young Catholics in my home and I hope that I can better catechize these precious souls in my care to better trust in their Savior’s power to bring them to perfection.

There is a reason Jesus chose the word be and not become.

I was unaware that Christ chose “be” over “become.” Once again, I would respectfully ask you to supply your scholarly resources which support the grammar you have espoused, rejecting the future tense.

Tiresome it might be to you to you to look so closely at every word that comes from the mouth of God, but this is that for which i hunger, and i believe Jesus approves, for He tells me:

Do not misrepresent me, please. I appreciate your generally respectful tone, but my comment about the distinction being “tired” in NO WAY indicates that I am ever weary of looking closely at the Word of God. This insinuation is insulting.

So, yes, i agree that i should learn the meaning of the word perfect. However, i do not agree that knowing the meaning of the word be is not important, for every word in a sentence determines the meaning of the sentence.

Neither did I say that the meaning of the word “be” is unimportant. Instead, I believe emphasizing an exclusive present tense “be” and its theological implications over the Greek sense and historcial Christian theology is not helpful in considering the full message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Janet_S]

Here’s another verse about perfection,

Matthew 19:16-21–Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, " ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “**If ****you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and **give to (the) poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. **Then come, follow me.” **

Here is Pope JP II’s commentary from Veritatis Splendor:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

*Jesus’ conversation with the young man helps us to grasp the conditions for the moral growth of man, who has been called to perfection: the young man, having observed all the commandments, shows that he is incapable of taking the next step by himself alone. To do so requires mature human freedom (“If you wish to be perfect”) and God’s gift of grace (“Come, follow me”). *

*17.2 Perfection demands that maturity in self-giving to which human freedom is called. Jesus points out to the young man that the commandments are the first and indispensable condition for having eternal life; on the other hand, for the young man to give up all he possesses and to follow the Lord is presented as an invitation: “If you wish…”. These words of Jesus reveal the particular dynamic of freedom’s growth towards maturity, and at the same time they bear witness to the fundamental relationship between freedom and divine law. Human freedom and God’s law are not in opposition; on the contrary, they appeal one to the other. *

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

By definition, human beings cannot be “perfect” by virtue of the fact that they are not God. Only God is perfect in being and we, as contingent beings, are inherently imperfect (note: imperfection is not the same thing as “sinful.” Adam and Eve were imperfect before they had sinned).

Thus, to understand perfection, we have to understand in what way God is perfect through His incarnation as the person of Jesus Christ. And how does Christ reveal the nature of perfection? Humility. God, the Creator of the cosmos, King of all that exists and ever will, chose to be born in a filthy stable, live in poverty with the “least” of human beings, and die a traitor’s death on the cross.

Christ is not commanding us to perfect in word or deed, for this is impossible, but in humility. It doesn’t mean never sinning (such scrupulosity will drive one mad, like Martin Luther) but having the *humility *to return back to Christ, like the prodigal son, when we do. We must always give all of ourselves to the Father, who is the source of perfection.

If Luther is not allowed to add the word “alone” after “by faith” in Rom. 3.28 - how can we add “in humility” after “be perfect” in Matt 5.48 ?​

And: if Jesus meant “be perfect in humility” - why did he not *say *it ? He seems to have been quite articulate, & quite ready to speak his mind - so one would have thought that if he meant that, he would have said it. If we go by the words attributed to him (which are all we have as guides for knowing what he said to whom about what), he was indeed “commanding us to be perfect in word or deed”, even though “this is impossible.” If he taught something unrealistic, then we have to live with that - just as we have to live with the problems in Plato’s teaching, or in that of Aquinas. ##

 

[Linkowski]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread…

Matthew 5:20 KJV 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

They (The Pharisees) had it all down from the standpoint that they followed the law externally…BUT…they had a self-righteousness…

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

We are told that there is no way by means of the flesh that we can be just before God…perfect…

Matthew 5:27-30 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

We must not have the idea that we can keep God’s law to establish a righteousness of our own…we would have to go as far as to cut out our eyes and cut off our limbs…what He was saying is that we can in no way be perfect in the keeping of God’s commands BY THE FLESH and we must trust in a righteousness ouside of ourselves (flesh)…And we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law…

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 4:1-8 KJV 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

If you are working your way to heaven…you are seemingly trying to pay off your own debt

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The only way that we can be just before God is to repent of your sin, empty yourselves of self-righteousness, and trust in the crosswork of Christ…That faith will be counted to you as righteousness - the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed to you as a gift from God.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

John 5:24 KJV 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 KJV 1 There is therefore now **no condemnation **to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:33 KJV 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

Just - in right standing with God…in Christ and dead to the penalties of the law (Romans 7:1-6). Perfected forever…

Hebrews 10:13-18 KJV 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath ***perfected for ever ***them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

You flatter and misunderstand me. I thank you for your kind consideration, but please, you needn’t patronize me with self-abasement as I am quite confident that you are particularly able to understand such grammatical nuances. …

There was no sarcasm in what i said. My praise was sincere. I do not consider myself anything other than a novice in regard to English grammar, am ignorant of Greek grammar, and know the meaning of only a few Greek words.

The fault is mine for not being more careful with my choice of words. I’m not a person who uses sarcasm when i speak, and often do not recognize it in others. I was naive in thinking you would find me sincere. I’ll try not to offend you. Again, i am grateful for the chance to discuss this with you.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… Immature minds do not tend to engage in this sort of dialogue.

My wife would disagree with you! We have two sons but she sometimes laments that she is raising three kids.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… I can not respond except to say that it is unfathomable to me that any Catholic receiving the Lord’s Body and Blood or seeking His perfect forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation could make such a statement. …

Yes, as i mentioned in a previous post, there are appear to be four groups of people who have replied to this discussion thread: Catholics, Protestants, Skeptics, and my group, which seems to have only me myself as a member. The person who made the comment (and i was only paraphrasing him) was a skeptic.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… My hope is that your despair in rejecting Christ’s Church is a function of a misunderstanding. …

If that is true, i hope God will reveal to you how to show me. My daily prayer before coming to this forum is that God will show me what is true, show those who speak to me what is true, and reveal to me and others what is not true.

I’ll repeat that i am a philosopher (or seeker of truth) first and a religious person second. Whatever religion i choose to adopt must first all be true. I cannot live a lie for, as Socrates said, “the unexamined life is not worth living.” I’m here to see if Catholicism is that religion of the One who is the way, the truth and the life.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Stay as close to the Body of Christ as you can. It is His Body which is holy and perfect. Through His Body you become perfect.

A little homely story may be in order. Both of my sons studied violin using the Suzuki method. Every so often there would be a joint concert which put on display all levels of Suzuki players abilities. My then five year old and I were enjoying listening to the more advanced students. My son had just learned “Twinkle” the first reall compostition. I whispered to him “Won’t it be wonderful when you learn to play like they do?” He responded, “Dad, I already do.”

He was right.

CDL

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

…Do not misrepresent me, please. I appreciate your generally respectful tone, but my comment about the distinction being “tired” in NO WAY indicates that I am ever weary of looking closely at the Word of God. This insinuation is insulting. …

That is interesting that you would come away with that impression. This was not my intention. I was not comparing myself to you, but comparing myself to Christ. He genuinely lived on every word that came from the mouth of God the Father, for He alone lived perfectly every requirement of the Jewish law of the Old Testament, and without hypocrisy! I fall so short of that.

The reason i wrote this was that i realized that my concern about the meaning of this passage might seem like a hang up, so i was trying to explain my motive. I wanted to give the reason why i think it is good that i understand every word Jesus said. I was not implying that you do not. I realize that you were saying that we should first discuss the meaning of the word perfect, but i did not see how that would help if i did not first understand why Jesus used the word be.

Again, i am sorry for my poor choice of words and can understand why you are offended. Please accept my apology.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I wish I could. Once again, at best, I think the fullest sense of Christ’s words are an amalgam which applies and pertains to all the Church, saints and sinners alike.

Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Jane:

It might also help my small mind if you tell me which of these definitions the translators probably had in mind when they used the word be.

1.to exist or live: *Shakespeare’s “To be or not to be” is the ultimate question. *

2.to take place; happen; occur: *The wedding was last week. *

3.to occupy a place or position: *The book is on the table. *

4.to continue or remain as before: *Let things be. *

5.to belong; attend; befall: *May good fortune be with you. *

6.(used as a copula to connect the subject with its predicate adjective, or predicate nominative, in order to describe, identify, or amplify the subject): *Martha is tall. John is president. This is she. *

7.(used as a copula** to introduce or form interrogative or imperative sentences**): Is that right? Be quiet! Don’t be facetious.

8.(used with the present participle of another verb to form the progressive tense): *I am waiting. *

9.(used with the present participle or infinitive of the principal verb to indicate future action): *She is visiting there next week. He is to see me today. *

10.(used with the past participle of another verb to form the passive voice): *The date was fixed. It must be done. *

11.(used in archaic or literary constructions with some intransitive verbs to form the perfect tense): *He is come. Agamemnon to the wars is gone. If you will be so kind, please choose a number (1 - 11).
​

Janet:

I’m being sincere, here, in saying i simply do not understand what you just said. I’m not asking you to say with certainty which of these definitions apply to Christ’s words in Matthew 5:48, only to suggest one (or more than one) that i might consider. I’m assuming that this list gives every definition of the word, but if it does not and you know of another definition, please tell me. If you are unsure, that is good enough for me, as i am unsure myself. I suppose i could, by a process of elimination, apply each definition to the passage until i come to one that appears to be correct, but i thought you might have a better idea than i do, since you are familiar with the Greek.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Stay as close to the Body of Christ as you can. It is His Body which is holy and perfect. Through His Body you become perfect.

A little homely story may be in order. Both of my sons studied violin using the Suzuki method. Every so often there would be a joint concert which put on display all levels of Suzuki players abilities. My then five year old and I were enjoying listening to the more advanced students. My son had just learned “Twinkle” the first reall compostition. I whispered to him “Won’t it be wonderful when you learn to play like they do?” He responded, “Dad, I already do.”

He was right.

CDL

Thank you, Gregory! I think, perhaps, what you are saying is that we can be, in some small way, as perfect as Jesus Himself. Just as your son can play one thing as well as a professional violinist, so too each Catholic can, with God’s help, do at least one thing as perfectly as He Himself does, although not everything as perfectly as He does. Is this what you are saying?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… Hebrews 10:13-18 KJV 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath ***perfected for ever ***them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Thank you, Linkowski! You might be on to something, there. The writer of Hebrews certainly seems to be saying how you and i can be made perfect. Let me look at the passage you quoted in a more modern translation (the NIV):

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:11-13)

Whenever i find a passage i have trouble understanding in the Bible, i look for another passage that teaches the same thing, but does so more clearly. I think you, Linowski, have found that passage!

What i’m trying to figure out is how i can be as perfect as God, for this is what our beloved Lord Jesus commands me to do:

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
(Matthew 5:48)

“I can perhaps understand how i can become perfect (if not now, then in eternity),” i have been saying, “but how can i be (right now and remain so into the future) as Jesus tells me i must?” This passage of Hebrews 10 is speaking of the same subject (the state of being perfect) and explaining how God makes one so.

Janet (or anyone else): Will you please tell Linowski and i how the writer of Hebrews says God can make us perfect?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Thank you, Gregory! I think, perhaps, what you are saying is that we can be, in some small way, as perfect as Jesus Himself. Just as your son can play one thing as well as a professional violinist, so too each Catholic can, with God’s help, do at least one thing as perfectly as He Himself does, although not everything as perfectly as He does. Is this what you are saying?

In part. I also suggest that if we are living with all of the light we have and desire more that is precisely what God asks of us. Adam and Eve were perfect before the fall but they still had a destiny beyond the one they had. They were to become one with God. If they had continued the trajectory they were on they would have become fully God’s children or “God by adoption.” They lost that possibility, Christ regained it. Through baptism we are again born anew and as we follow the trajectory we too will become one with Him. Each step is perfect AND each step draws us closer to oneness with God.

CDL