How can you be sure sola scriptura is wrong

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Damo73

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If sola Scriptura cannot be the correct method of determining truth because of the religious division among churches that claim to use sola Scriptura, then does this not also disqualify the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches method of using tradition, since they are divided against themselves?

I believe there should only be one church, i just need to know why i believe.
 
Because the complete Bible, did not exist for a certain amount of centuries after the establishment of the Church. The Church was already in existence, before the completion of the Biblical writings. And these writings were not formally put into the Bible canonically until around the 2nd century.
Also, it was the authority of the Church, that figured out which books would go in.
 
In 1 Tim. 5:17-18, Paul tells Timothy, “…for the Scripture says…” and then goes on to quote two passages, one from Deuteronomy 25, the other, NOT FROM THE O.T., but from Luke 10:7. So Paul quotes Luke and refers to it as “Scripture” alongside an OT verse. The Gospel of Luke can therefore be considered Scripture alongside the OT.

I am aware it took some time to for the Bible as we know to come about, however the writtings of the apostles were regarded as scripture long befor this.
 
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only source of our faith and beliefs. If you believe that the Bible is the only authority, then it should say that in the Bible. Otherwise Sola Scriptura is unbiblical (which it is). The division between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox came about when the Orthodox split from the Roman Church. This does not mean that the Roman Church is not the Church founded by Christ. It means that the Orthodox broke away, similar to the Reformation when people broke away from the Roman Church and started their own Church.

Peace,
Linda
 
I posted this in another forum.
Ps. 119
This Psalm is an acclamation of the Scriptures, made up of 176 verses
(longest chapter in the Bible) mentioning the Word of God 178 times
using 10 different synonyms. The Scriptures are presented as being
totally sufficient for the follower of God in all matters pertaining to
instruction, training, and correction. It is significant that though
Scripture is mentioned 178 times, the concept of unwritten Tradition
is never mentioned once. In fact, there is no acclamation of or
meditation on unwritten Tradition in such a way anywhere in Scripture.
This would be problematic if one were to believe that the concept of
unwritten Tradition is on equal footing as Scripture, yet the Bible
never mentions it. It would be the greatest case of neglect that one
could find.
Acts 17:10–11
“The brothers sent Paul and Silas off to Berea at once, during the night.
When they arrived, they went to the Jewish synagogue. These Jews
were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly
received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to
see if these things were so.”
Scripture explicitly states that no one is to add to or take away from the Word
of God. These warnings would be meaningless if there was not some objective
way for one to judge if he or she was adding to God’s Word, since unwritten
Tradition is by nature beyond this type of examination. These commands are
warnings against traditions that add to the complete and sufficient Word of
God. They would only make sense if the Scriptures were sufficient and
complete.

Deut. 4:2
“Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract from it, so
that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I
am delivering to you.”
Rev. 22:18–19
“I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in
this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues
described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of
this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life
and in the holy city that are described in this book.”
Concerning the sufficiency of Scripture, the Westminster Catechism says:
“The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his
own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down
in scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced
from scripture; unto which, nothing at any time is to be added,
whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men” (1:6).
If the Roman pontiff, the “Vicar of Christ”, or the magisterium is going to
speak on behalf of Christ, being successors to the apostles’ office, authority,
and infallibility, they must show the signs of one who speaks for God as
prescribed in Scripture.
Deut. 18:20–22
“But if any prophet presumes to speak anything in my name that I have
not authorized him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, that
prophet must die. Now if you say to yourselves, ‘How can we tell that
a message is not from the LORD?’ —whenever a prophet speaks in my
name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not spoken it; the
prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him.”

2 Cor. 12:12
“Indeed, the signs of an apostle were performed among you with great
perseverance by signs and wonders and powerful deeds.”
The Scriptures speak explicitly against the “traditions of men” as misleading
and often in opposition to God’s written Word. Therefore, all traditions must
submit to Scripture.
Matt. 15:2–6
“‘Why do your disciples disobey the tradition of the elders? For they
don’t wash their hands when they eat.’ He answered them, ‘And why
do you disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?
For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Whoever insults
his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If someone
tells his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you would have received
from me is given to God,’’ he does not need to honor his father. You
have nullified the word of God on account of your tradition.”
 
If sola Scriptura cannot be the correct method of determining truth because of the religious division among churches that claim to use sola Scriptura, then does this not also disqualify the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches method of using tradition, since they are divided against themselves?

I believe there should only be one church, i just need to know why i believe.
There is very few disagreements between Catholic and Orthodox in regards to our basic belief. ie. Real presance in the Eucharist, Apostolic Succession etc.

Sola Scriptura however has created churches that claim to follow the Bible alone, but all think it says something different.

In regards to the canon of Scripture not developing until the 2nd century. How in the world did anyone know about God between the time of the death of the Apostles, and the 2nd century. Of the NT books each commmunity did not have a copy of every writing in the new testament. Besides wouldn’t the Protestants be missing some things considering that the original Canon of Scripture contains OT books that have been removed from the Protestant Bibles?
 
Matt 28:18-20,
Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

and from John 21:24-25,
It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

First, Jesus didn’t ask the apostles to write the bible and spread it to the whole world. Second, there are things not written in the bible and the books in the Bible is chosen by the Catholic Church.

As you said, there should be only one church, but Sola Scriptura means that everyone is able to interpret the Bible as they like it. If it happens, who is right?
Just my 2 cents.
 
The Catholic Bible is missing books that the orthodox church excepts, is the catholic church missing out.
 
…In fact, there is no acclamation of or
meditation on unwritten Tradition in such a way anywhere in Scripture…
2 Thessalonians 2:15:
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 3:6:
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
1 Corinthians 11:2:
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.
John 21:25:
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
 
One of the best arguments I can think of is that fact that the New Testament scriptures were not assembled together until long after Christ died on the cross. Christ taught his disciples many things orally, he annointed them with the discernment inspired by the Holy Spirit, whom he sent down on Pentacost to jump start his new Church. That fiery awakening was very dramatic, like the thrill of first love. But it continues as an unbroken thread, even to the present, by virtue of Apostolic succession. The Apostles and their spiritual descendents, who are our clergy today, carry on this Holy Tradition unbroken, down from the original Biblical Patriarchs whom Jesus annointed.
 
The Council of Nicea did NOT actually make the original decision about which books were to be part of the Bible. What the councils did do was no so much decide, as AGREE with what had already been decided by the Apostles and was already in practice in the churches all over the world.

Remember at the time of the Council of Nicea that the Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy did Not yet exist. It did not have that little piece of real estate yet in the Vatican until after 325 A.D. It was after the Council of Nicea that the Emperor set up the Catholic Church.

and in regard to the Pseudopigraphia it was not until the Council of Trent, when the Pseudopigraphia would be treated as Holy Scripture itself. In other words, 1500 years after Jesus Died (and rose again), the Roman Catholic Church decided to change which books should be included in the Bible
 
The Catholic Bible is missing books that the orthodox church excepts, is the catholic church missing out.
The Catholic Church doesn’t claim Sola Scriptura. The Catholic Church did not reject books of the OT. There were some that were not included in all versions of the Septuagint, and therefore not all communities used them as part of the OT. As I understand it, among the Orthodox there are some who use books that others don’t.

It just seems odd to me that Luther decided that Scripture should be used alone, but then removed a good part of it. Remember Luther also removed parts of the NT that were later restored to the Protestant Bible. We can’t agree on what Scripture is, or what it says, how can we be guided by Scripture alone?

Sola Scriptura has accomplished one thing, that is creating division within the Christ’s Church.
 
When you see the word tradition, why do you always assume it to be oral tradition rather than scripture tradition, when the Bible calls scripture tradition in 2 Thess 2:15, and Athanasius call scripture tradition: “the Apostolic tradition teaches in the words of blessed Peter, 'Forasmuch then as Christ suffered for us in the Flesh” Athanasius then quotes: 1 Peter 4:1; Titus 2:13; Heb 2:1 (Athanasius, To Adelphius, Letter 60, 6)?
 
The Council of Nicea did NOT actually make the original decision about which books were to be part of the Bible. What the councils did do was no so much decide, as AGREE with what had already been decided by the Apostles and was already in practice in the churches all over the world.
This is the role of the Council. Councils do not make up things, they confirm what is right according to Tradition. In this case they confirmed Tradition in regards to what books are Scriptural.
Remember at the time of the Council of Nicea that the Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy did Not yet exist. It did not have that little piece of real estate yet in the Vatican until after 325 A.D. It was after the Council of Nicea that the Emperor set up the Catholic Church.
The hierarchy of the Church doesn’t have anything to do with a piece of real estate. The hierarchy of the Church began with the Apostles, and it was handed down from them.
and in regard to the Pseudopigraphia it was not until the Council of Trent, when the Pseudopigraphia would be treated as Holy Scripture itself. In other words, 1500 years after Jesus Died (and rose again), the Roman Catholic Church decided to change which books should be included in the Bible
Do you have a referance for this?:confused:
 
When you see the word tradition, why do you always assume it to be oral tradition rather than scripture tradition, when the Bible calls scripture tradition in 2 Thess 2:15, and Athanasius call scripture tradition: “the Apostolic tradition teaches in the words of blessed Peter, 'Forasmuch then as Christ suffered for us in the Flesh” Athanasius then quotes: 1 Peter 4:1; Titus 2:13; Heb 2:1 (Athanasius, To Adelphius, Letter 60, 6)?
Scripture is only one part of tradition. Tradition could be reflected in Scripture, or orally, or in other writing from early Christianity.
 
Another proof that I think bears mentioning is the fruit borne by the Catholic approach to interpreting scripture, which is moderated and regulated by the Magisterium, which is an inspired and highly educated body that operates under strict discipline and guidelines. Contrast that with the results of the Protestant experiment in Sola Scriptura that has resulted in sects that so wildly differ, not only from the Christian Church that Christ established, but also from one another. Sola Scriptura, instead of unifying the Body of Christ, has shattered it into 30,000 + pieces.
 
Another proof that I think bears mentioning is the fruit borne by the Catholic approach to interpreting scripture, which is moderated and regulated by the Magisterium, which is an inspired and highly educated body that operates under strict discipline and guidelines. Contrast that with the results of the Protestant experiment in Sola Scriptura that has resulted in sects that so wildly differ, not only from the Christian Church that Christ established, but also from one another. Sola Scriptura, instead of unifying the Body of Christ, has shattered it into 30,000 + pieces.
👍
 
The Catholic Bible is missing books that the orthodox church excepts, is the catholic church missing out.
I don’t know much about the Orthodox Church, but I do know that it was the Catholic Church which assembled the books together. If Protestants choose to remove some of these books and the Orthodox Church adds books, surely the Catholic Church isn’t responsible.
 
One important aspect of Tradition that has been largely lost in more recent Protestant sects, is Liturgical Tradition. Without the discipline of the balance brought to the faith by the Church, modern churches have come to rely so heavily on individual interpretation of scripture as delivered in a sermon, that the beauty and majesty of worshiping the Lord with all of our senses has been lost. I think that is why you have the outcry we see today to restore a richer Liturgy of yesterday. The Church Fathers understand the whole of the Human Being in relationship to the worship of the Divine.
 
The New Testament never directly quotes from any apocryphal book as
Scripture with the common designation “it is written”. Often, when people
claim that it does, the references are a stretch to get them to match the
deuterocanonical books, or they are, at best, mere allusions that evidence
knowledge of the deuterocanonical books. If there are genuine allusions to
certain deuterocanonical books, this does not mean that the writer believed
them to be inspired any more than Paul’s quotation of Aratus (ca. 310–245
B.C.) in Acts 17:28 means that he believed Phaenomena was part of the canon.
(See also where Jude quotes from the apocryphal book Enoch in Jude 1:9).
2. The Palestinian Jews (those who lived in Israel) never accepted the
deuterocanonical books. This was the key argument for the Reformers. The
basic idea is that if Christ did not recognize them, they are not canonical.
Josephus (born c. 37 A.D.), a primary Jewish historian, plainly writes about
the accepted canon of his day which is the same as the current Protestant
canon. He makes no mention of the Apocrypha and does not hint at a canon
controversy in his day (Against Apion 1.41). The Talmud makes a similar point:
“After the latter prophets Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, the Holy Spirit
departed from Israel.” Philo, who lived in Alexandria in the first century, did
not accept the Apocrypha either.
From a Protestant perspective, there are significant theological and historical
inaccuracies in the deuterocanonical books (e.g., works-based salvation, Tobit
12:9; cruelty, Sirach 22:3; 42:14, 2; doctrine of purgatory, 2 Maccabees
12:41–45). What is more, these books have historical errors. It is claimed
that Tobit was alive when the Assyrians conquered Israel in 722 B.C. and also
when Jeroboam revolted against Judah in 931 B.C., which would make him at
least 209 years old; yet according to the account, he died when he was only
158 years. The Book of Judith speaks of Nebuchadnezzar reigning in Nineveh
instead of Babylon.
The Apocrypha itself attests to the absence of prophets in its own time.
1 Macc. 9:27
“Thus there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the
time that prophets ceased to appear among them.”

The deuterocanonical books were in dispute for so long and held to secondary
status that it would be problematic to say that they contain the voice of God
since most people did not recognize them to be His voice.
Jn. 10:27
“My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”
 
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