How can you change sexual orientation or lose it?

[ILoveTheLordGod]

One of my best friends is a homosexual who, in fact, hates the fact that he is one. He even (almost) attempted suicide and self-harm as an act of punishment towards himself. I am the only one who knows that he is.

Sorry, but homosexuality ISN’T a choice may be the cause of something genetic or environmental (he claims it’s environmental.). It’s the same way people can have the desire to be straight, but if it doesn’t get into them, they can’t do anything about it.

I have given up on society because they don’t understand homosexuals and their struggles. I mean, people even claim it’s sinful. Yes, homosexual ACTS are, but what about the attraction itself? It’s not the fault of the gay person. Not all gays want to be gay. I mean, I’ve seen tons of websites like jesus-is-savior.com and they condemn gays without understanding homosexuality really.

He even told me that he doesn’t invite lustful thoughts. This means that he gets “turned on” when he sees someone that “has it”, but that’s it. He gets aroused by what he sees, not thinks.

Yes, thinking lust is sinful, but why would the orientation be a sin? It’s his choice to engage in sodomy or not, but it isn’t his choice to be attracted or not. Sin is brought about by temptation, but isn’t homosexuality a temptation to do sin itself? Since when has temptation become a sin?

But then again, what if the orientation really is sinful (despite the fact that it’s unfair if it would)? I wouldn’t want him to be a proud gay, so the best thing to do is to help him change or just make him an asexual.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

Sin is always a choice (no choice = no sin).

The call for someone who has such a profoundly disordered sexuality that marriage is impossible is not to become “asexual” per se (an impossibility), but to live their lives bound by the same laws of chastity which bind anyone who is not married.

Some claim that it is possible to change sexual orientation, I haven’t seen any compelling evidence that this is a possibility for everyone. God will give your friend the grace to engage in the struggle, and this struggle can in itself be a source of holiness.

You are quite correct that it is homosexual acts which are sinful, not the orientation itself.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

One of my best friends is a homosexual who, in fact, hates the fact that he is one. He even (almost) attempted suicide and self-harm as an act of punishment towards himself. I am the only one who knows that he is.

Sorry, but homosexuality ISN’T a choice may be the cause of something genetic or environmental (he claims it’s environmental.). It’s the same way people can have the desire to be straight, but if it doesn’t get into them, they can’t do anything about it.

I have given up on society because they don’t understand homosexuals and their struggles. I mean, people even claim it’s sinful. Yes, homosexual ACTS are, but what about the attraction itself? It’s not the fault of the gay person. Not all gays want to be gay. I mean, I’ve seen tons of websites like jesus-is-savior.com and they condemn gays without understanding homosexuality really.

He even told me that he doesn’t invite lustful thoughts. This means that he gets “turned on” when he sees someone that “has it”, but that’s it. He gets aroused by what he sees, not thinks.

Yes, thinking lust is sinful, but why would the orientation be a sin? It’s his choice to engage in sodomy or not, but it isn’t his choice to be attracted or not. Sin is brought about by temptation, but isn’t homosexuality a temptation to do sin itself? Since when has temptation become a sin?

But then again, what if the orientation really is sinful (despite the fact that it’s unfair if it would)? I wouldn’t want him to be a proud gay, so the best thing to do is to help him change or just make him an asexual.

Every man desires a woman and every woman desires a man.
I see it in no other way.
Finally, for the first time, I saw the aknowlegement that homo is environmental.
Yes, it is. The problem is to know when things started to go wrong, but from Freud onwards we know a little bit or piece when you were a baby can make a lot of a difference.
I would not lose my time with the question of sin. suppose it is. Does it change anything? what your friend wants is to change and that is what God wants. To put the burden of sin on top of him is more a burden than an escape for change.

From here, I cannot help, but I would give some tips:

1. 
   *]try to discover what went wrong in his life.
   *]when did he change the tendency? why?
   *]write a diary and just put it down everything that comes to his mind.
   *]see a counselor.
   *]practice meditation: let your thoughts and feelings fly by, dont repress them.
   *]pray to the Hoy and Virgin Mary
   
   These are not drugs like in the drugstore, remedies that will make effect. But tries to find a way out. Maybe none will result, but keep trying.
   
   God will help you and your friend.
   
   If I can be of a minimal help, do not hesitate to contact me.

 

[cemiller]

One of my best friends is a homosexual who, in fact, hates the fact that he is one. He even (almost) attempted suicide and self-harm as an act of punishment towards himself. I am the only one who knows that he is.

Sorry, but homosexuality ISN’T a choice may be the cause of something genetic or environmental (he claims it’s environmental.). It’s the same way people can have the desire to be straight, but if it doesn’t get into them, they can’t do anything about it.

I have given up on society because they don’t understand homosexuals and their struggles. I mean, people even claim it’s sinful. Yes, homosexual ACTS are, but what about the attraction itself? It’s not the fault of the gay person. Not all gays want to be gay. I mean, I’ve seen tons of websites like jesus-is-savior.com and they condemn gays without understanding homosexuality really.

He even told me that he doesn’t invite lustful thoughts. This means that he gets “turned on” when he sees someone that “has it”, but that’s it. He gets aroused by what he sees, not thinks.

Yes, thinking lust is sinful, but why would the orientation be a sin? It’s his choice to engage in sodomy or not, but it isn’t his choice to be attracted or not. Sin is brought about by temptation, but isn’t homosexuality a temptation to do sin itself? Since when has temptation become a sin?

But then again, what if the orientation really is sinful (despite the fact that it’s unfair if it would)? I wouldn’t want him to be a proud gay, so the best thing to do is to help him change or just make him an asexual.

The inclination for attraction to the same sex is not a sin. The act itself is. That said the only people I know of that are doing any kind of studies on reorientation theropy is NARTH. They dont claim it works for everyone either. If your friend really wants to try, they would be the people to contact, there is nothing you can do to help if he’s performing self harming acts. He needs to see a counselor asap. Even if it’s not a NARTH counselor, he needs proffesional help. Attempted suicide or even the mention of it is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. Good luck.

 

[Scoobyshme]

All of the posts above are very helpful.

I would add, for analysis, that if someone is very tempted to rob banks, he still has an obligation to not rob banks. He cannot rob banks and then, when he’s caught, say, “Well, I couldn’t help myself. I was created to be a bank robber. It’s who I am.” He still goes to jail.

There are a lot of lies behind this whole “gay” issue. One of the main is that they treat the disorder as an identity of “who” they are. It is not. It is a behavior. Behaviors can be controlled by the will, unless one is mentally ill to the point where they have no free will.

 

[Joe_5859]

First, (just an aside) jesus-is-savior.com should never be taken as a guide for any subject. It’s a terrible website that is not at all in line with what we as Catholics believe and profess. It’s unfortunate that they seem to rise to the top of Google searches. That gives them a far wider audience than they deserve.

The above posters are correct. The Catholic Church does not teach that simply being homosexual is sinful. It is only the acts that are sinful. The Church says that the homosexual inclination is “disordered” which basically means it is not the natural way. But that should not be taken as some sort sort of indictment of those who have the inclination. Every person is created in the image and likeness of God and has inherent dignity. We need to treat people as such.

Cemiller mentioned NARTH, which is one place I would recommend looking into. There is also the Courage apostolate which aims to help those with same sex attraction from a Catholic perspective. I would recommend looking more closely at both (even contacting them by phone). The people there are far more equipped to help you and your friend than any of us.

Fr. Michael put it well: sin is a choice. There is a difference between temptation and sin. Jesus Himself was tempted, but He never sinned. Having sexual thoughts pop into our head at the sight of an attractive person is not the same thing as deliberately engaging in lustful thoughts.

Prayers for you and your friend.

 

[michelleds]

Sin is always a choice (no choice = no sin).

The call for someone who has such a profoundly disordered sexuality that marriage is impossible is not to become “asexual” per se (an impossibility), but to live their lives bound by the same laws of chastity which bind anyone who is not married.

Some claim that it is possible to change sexual orientation, I haven’t seen any compelling evidence that this is a possibility for everyone. God will give your friend the grace to engage in the struggle, and this struggle can in itself be a source of holiness.

You are quite correct that it is homosexual acts which are sinful, not the orientation itself.

[emphasis mine]
+1

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Sorry, many of the posts I cannot accept:

1. 
   *]I find boring to discuss whether homossexuality is a sin or not, if the tendency iis a sin or not or the act itself. It is useless. Let’s God deciide. He knows better.
   *]Homossexuality is not a behavior, it is a tendency and the behavior comes form the tendency.
   *]Behavior can be controlled by will. Tendencies, I doubt.
   *]Doctors say that hommosexuality cannot becured. Putting things the other way, there is no compelling evidence that homosexuality can be cured. The same goes for AIDS or HIV. So what? Yes, people around the world are searchingfor a cure.
   *]As for homosexuality, it seems to be accepted as such, fashionable sometimes, normal often. So what? It does not need cure, for it is normal, it is a “choice”
   *]I do not believe there is no cure and Catholics should not talk that way. Why? If we defend that homosexuality is not normal, then there is something wrong. And if there is something wrong, we should search for the cure, to put nature as God created it.
   *]Pray? Ok, the more the better. BUT, we should strive and do our best, not wait only for God’s grace. Man should search for a cure.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

Sorry, many of the posts I cannot accept:
I find boring to discuss whether homossexuality is a sin or not, if the tendency iis a sin or not or the act itself. It is useless. Let’s God deciide. He knows better.

You may find it boring, but for many people it is a vital question. However it is not one on which there is any conjecture. No moralist would say that homosexuality in itself is sinful, all sin as I said before involves a personal choice. It is homosexual acts which are sinful.

Homossexuality is not a behavior, it is a tendency and the behavior comes form the tendency.
Behavior can be controlled by will. Tendencies, I doubt.

Homosexuality is the disorderd sexual attraction towards another person of the same sex, it is neither simply a behaviour or a tendency. While there is a continuum, and some people find themselves attracted to those of both the same and the opposite sex, we cannot choose who we are attracted to, we can only choose to act or not to act on that attraction.

Doctors say that hommosexuality cannot becured. Putting things the other way, there is no compelling evidence that homosexuality can be cured. The same goes for AIDS or HIV. So what? Yes, people around the world are searchingfor a cure.

I cannot think of two more dissimilar examples of a disorder in a human then AIDS and homosexuality.

As for homosexuality, it seems to be accepted as such, fashionable sometimes, normal often. So what? It does not need cure, for it is normal, it is a “choice”

This is indeed a problem that we are facing. Many refuse to acknowledge that this lifestyle is an issue, they seek to normalise what is in reality deeply disordered. There is a particular push on this with the area of same sex ‘marriage’.

I do not believe there is no cure and Catholics should not talk that way. Why? If we defend that homosexuality is not normal, then there is something wrong. And if there is something wrong, we should search for the cure, to put nature as God created it.

There is this little thing called a fallen human nature, and you will never find a cure for that (in the conventional sense). Only God’s grace, his sacraments, regular confession, prayer, penance and fasting… can help us to die to self, and therefore die to our fallen selves. There may be a medical / psychological aspect to homosexuality, but it may also be a product of our fallen human natures.

Pray? Ok, the more the better. BUT, we should strive and do our best, not wait only for God’s grace. Man should search for a cure.

Sure, but in the mean time, those who face the affliction of disordered sexuality must strive for virtue and chastity.

 

[ILoveTheLordGod]

What about Romans 1:26-27?

Didn’t it say God gave up rebels to vile affections? Is homosexuality a result of sin? (I really don’t believe in gay genes, but I do believe in homosexuality is brought about by psychological matters, influenced by the environment) I asked him and he told me it all started with a fetish since he was 3, which ruined his life, according to him.

Doesn’t affection already refer to the attraction?

And what about the anti-theists? They are the kings of all rebels, yet so many of them are straight.

 

[Debora123]

One of my best friends is a homosexual who, in fact, hates the fact that he is one. He even (almost) attempted suicide and self-harm as an act of punishment towards himself. I am the only one who knows that he is.

Sorry, but homosexuality ISN’T a choice may be the cause of something genetic or environmental (he claims it’s environmental.). It’s the same way people can have the desire to be straight, but if it doesn’t get into them, they can’t do anything about it.

I have given up on society because they don’t understand homosexuals and their struggles. I mean, people even claim it’s sinful. Yes, homosexual ACTS are, but what about the attraction itself? It’s not the fault of the gay person. Not all gays want to be gay. I mean, I’ve seen tons of websites like jesus-is-savior.com and they condemn gays without understanding homosexuality really.

He even told me that he doesn’t invite lustful thoughts. This means that he gets “turned on” when he sees someone that “has it”, but that’s it. He gets aroused by what he sees, not thinks.

Yes, thinking lust is sinful, but why would the orientation be a sin? It’s his choice to engage in sodomy or not, but it isn’t his choice to be attracted or not. Sin is brought about by temptation, but isn’t homosexuality a temptation to do sin itself? Since when has temptation become a sin?

But then again, what if the orientation really is sinful (despite the fact that it’s unfair if it would)? I wouldn’t want him to be a proud gay, so the best thing to do is to help him change or just make him an asexual.

You are absolutely correct.

The attraction itself is not sinful. It cannot be sinful because it is not freely chosen. Whoever says otherwise is quite ignorant and severely incorrect.

Tell your friend that rest assured, his temptation is not a sin, and as long as he keeps resisting temptation, God will glorify him.

 

[Debora123]

What about Romans 1:26-27?

Didn’t it say God gave up rebels to vile affections? Is homosexuality a result of sin? (I really don’t believe in gay genes, but I do believe in homosexuality is brought about by psychological matters, influenced by the environment) I asked him and he told me it all started with a fetish since he was 3, which ruined his life, according to him.

Doesn’t affection already refer to the attraction?

And what about the anti-theists? They are the kings of all rebels, yet so many of them are straight.

Not everything in the bible can be taken literally the way it is written. Look to the CHURCH for all the answers - not necessarily random lines in the bible.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

You may find it boring, but for many people it is a vital question. However it is not one on which there is any conjecture. No moralist would say that homosexuality in itself is sinful, all sin as I said before involves a personal choice. It is homosexual acts which are sinful.

Homosexuality is the disorderd sexual attraction towards another person of the same sex, it is neither simply a behaviour or a tendency. While there is a continuum, and some people find themselves attracted to those of both the same and the opposite sex, we cannot choose who we are attracted to, we can only choose to act or not to act on that attraction.

I cannot think of two more dissimilar examples of a disorder in a human then AIDS and homosexuality.

This is indeed a problem that we are facing. Many refuse to acknowledge that this lifestyle is an issue, they seek to normalise what is in reality deeply disordered. There is a particular push on this with the area of same sex ‘marriage’.

There is this little thing called a fallen human nature, and you will never find a cure for that (in the conventional sense). Only God’s grace, his sacraments, regular confession, prayer, penance and fasting… can help us to die to self, and therefore die to our fallen selves. There may be a medical / psychological aspect to homosexuality, but it may also be a product of our fallen human natures.

Sure, but in the mean time, those who face the affliction of disordered sexuality must strive for virtue and chastity.

Sorry to put it bluntly, but I think you are being too passive.
Protstitution. I pray for people who work on that trade but I admire the people who do rehab with them.
Drugs: I pray but I admire people who, in the field, fight to end the scourge.
AIDS: dissimilar ? No matter. Scientists do not sit on theair lab benches just praying for God’s grace!
Homossixuality: why is it different? Your resignation does not go with me and it is helping the ones who say it is normal. Lat’s pray! There is no cure! It is like a dying cancer man ! I simply do not accept.
And let’s not apply the doctrine of the Original Sin here for then, it must be applied to Prostitution, Drugs, and so on and on and on… Original Sin does not mean you do not fight against it !

There must be a cure for hosecuality.

 

[Neithan]

What a heavy cross a sexual disorientation must be.

I thank God often, that despite growing up in a perverse society, I have grown up relatively unscathed. How many people are sexually disoriented, wounded, abused? I think somehow it must mitigate their guilt. That some have been so wounded and abused even by clergymen and religious is now haunting the Church. Nowhere is safe from this scourge of lust.

A sexual disorientation is certainly not sinful, but chastity is an imperative and a homosexual inclination makes marriage impossible. So the only logical conclusion is celibacy.

Given that two males or two females cannot actually have sexual intercourse with one another, the ‘matter’ for the sacrament of marriage to be consummated simply isn’t there. Two men or two women can manipulate each others’ bodies for sexual pleasure, but that is just a kind of mutual masturbation. Same-sex ‘marriage’ is physically impossible.

It’s absurd how disordered our sexuality has become, but if we can think clearly enough about it, for just a moment, we can see clearly how we ought to handle it.
The difficulty is that we need the grace of Christ for that clarity.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

Sorry to put it bluntly, but I think you are being too passive.
Protstitution. I pray for people who work on that trade but I admire the people who do rehab with them.
Drugs: I pray but I admire people who, in the field, fight to end the scourge.
AIDS: dissimilar ? No matter. Scientists do not sit on theair lab benches just praying for God’s grace!

Homossixuality: why is it different? Your resignation does not go with me and it is helping the ones who say it is normal. Lat’s pray! There is no cure! It is like a dying cancer man ! I simply do not accept.
And let’s not apply the doctrine of the Original Sin here for then, it must be applied to Prostitution, Drugs, and so on and on and on… Original Sin does not mean you do not fight against it !

There must be a cure for hosecuality.

There seems to be some factors to this question, that you do not grasp:

1.The essential difference between an attraction to sin and a sin itself. I am not suggesting we should be passive in the face of actual sins (prostitution, drug use etc). Rather, as you rightly point out, there needs to be practical intervention as well as prayer. However, you may help a prostitute to overcome that particular sin, you will not overcome his or her attraction to sin. The reality of our broken human nature is as present in the case of drug users or prostitutes as it is in the case of homosexuals. Only God’s grace can overcome and repair our broken natures (though of course we need to co-operate). You should note, that I did not say someone who is engaged in homosexual acts should simply passively wait for God’s grace to intervene. Rather they must struggle to embrace chastity.

1. The nature of homosexuality. Set aside homosexual acts, which are immoral. Some find themselves attracted to same sex relationships. Often this was not of their own choosing, and therefore not a sin. Now I am not entering into the debate as to the cause of this, it could be psychological causes and/ or environmental factors. It may simply be, as I said before, a product of our own fallen natures. No doubt both often come into play. If science and medicine can find a cure for the psychological / environmental factors, wonderful, but that is hypothetical. Let’s look at the real world, as it is now.
2. What is being discussed here is not the question of acts but attractions. Attractions (sexual or otherwise) cannot be overcome in the same way as one might tackle the question of acts. There is a deep brokenness that sits at the heart of humanity which is the result of original sin. To believe that we can find a cure for it (in the conventional sense) is in fact heretical. (Cf. Augustine and Pelagius) newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm

4.Seeking the assistance of Grace, does not imply passiveness, if by passiveness you mean doing nothing to try and correct the weakness. But rather, it is the acknowledgement that without God’s grace, we will never overcome our sinful natures. We are all fallen, we are all attracted to what should repulse us. God’s grace can lessen that attraction over time and strengthen our resistance to sin, but to some extent the attraction to sin, will always remain in this life. Even the greatest of saints were well aware of their sin and more specifically their attraction to sin, (in a way in which, we are not) .

5.It may well be that someone of a homosexual orientation will never be able to heal this disorder. They will live with it forever. They are not thereby excused of sin, should they commit a homosexual act, no more so then someone who is heterosexual and unmarried. Just as an unmarried heterosexual person may be helped to overcome sexual sin, this is not done by eliminating his or her sexual appetite, but by integrating it with the law of God and by His grace. The call of God’s law for someone with a homosexual orientation is chaste celibacy (unless, this attraction can be sufficiently overcome to allow for a normal married life). The call to chastity needs God’s grace and our cooperation.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

There seems to be some factors to this question, that you do not grasp:

1.The essential difference between an attraction to sin and a sin itself. I am not suggesting we should be passive in the face of actual sins (prostitution, drug use etc). Rather, as you rightly point out, there needs to be practical intervention as well as prayer. However, you may help a prostitute to overcome that particular sin, you will not overcome his or her attraction to sin. The reality of our broken human nature is as present in the case of drug users or prostitutes as it is in the case of homosexuals. Only God’s grace can overcome and repair our broken natures (though of course we need to co-operate). You should note, that I did not say someone who is engaged in homosexual acts should simply passively wait for God’s grace to intervene. Rather they must struggle to embrace chastity.

1. The nature of homosexuality. Set aside homosexual acts, which are immoral. Some find themselves attracted to same sex relationships. Often this was not of their own choosing, and therefore not a sin. Now I am not entering into the debate as to the cause of this, it could be psychological causes and/ or environmental factors. It may simply be, as I said before, a product of our own fallen natures. No doubt both often come into play. If science and medicine can find a cure for the psychological / environmental factors, wonderful, but that is hypothetical. Let’s look at the real world, as it is now.
2. What is being discussed here is not the question of acts but attractions. Attractions (sexual or otherwise) cannot be overcome in the same way as one might tackle the question of acts. There is a deep brokenness that sits at the heart of humanity which is the result of original sin. To believe that we can find a cure for it (in the conventional sense) is in fact heretical. (Cf. Augustine and Pelagius) newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm

4.Seeking the assistance of Grace, does not imply passiveness, if by passiveness you mean doing nothing to try and correct the weakness. But rather, it is the acknowledgement that without God’s grace, we will never overcome our sinful natures. We are all fallen, we are all attracted to what should repulse us. God’s grace can lessen that attraction over time and strengthen our resistance to sin, but to some extent the attraction to sin, will always remain in this life. Even the greatest of saints were well aware of their sin and more specifically their attraction to sin, (in a way in which, we are not) .

5.It may well be that someone of a homosexual orientation will never be able to heal this disorder. They will live with it forever. They are not thereby excused of sin, should they commit a homosexual act, no more so then someone who is heterosexual and unmarried. Just as an unmarried heterosexual person may be helped to overcome sexual sin, this is not done by eliminating his or her sexual appetite, but by integrating it with the law of God and by His grace. The call of God’s law for someone with a homosexual orientation is chaste celibacy (unless, this attraction can be sufficiently overcome to allow for a normal married life). The call to chastity needs God’s grace and our cooperation.

Point by point:

1. I know that.
   1.1. Wrong. If you overcome the prostituion’s acts, probably you will overcome her tendency to prostituio. Nowadays it is called Behavior Therapy: if you change the beavior, you change the way of thinking. But St. Ignatius already told that: do not discuss with a man with a vie (alcohol, for instance), make him forego the vice. Then, he will think completely different, like the smokers who quit smoking who are the most sttuborn anti-smoking guys.
2. You should enter on the causes of homossexuality.
   2.1. Wrong. Homosexuality is a sign of a fallen state as it is everything bad. It is not a special case. To consider the hypothetical teh cure of homosexuality is passiveness. We could consider the cure of AIDS and cancer hypothetical. So, let’s do nothing and, as you say “Let’s look at the real world, as it is now”. For me, that is unbearable… I simply do not accept. To consider homo just a sign of a fallen state and not a disease, I would consider contrary to philosophical catholic thought.
3. As for this, it is answered in 1.
4. God acts not only through Grace but also through doctors, scientists, and investigators. They are God’s hands and brain in today’s world. A simple appendicits that no miracle would cure in the past, is done by any surgeon with closed eyes. It is a God given wisdom through man’s hard work. So, onw day, the cause for hom will be discovered and homo healed.

It may well be that someone of a homosexual orientation will never be able to heal this disorder. They will live with it forever.

I hope you are wrong.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Point by point:

1. I know that.
   1.1. Wrong. If you overcome the prostituion’s acts, probably you will overcome her tendency to prostituio. Nowadays it is called Behavior Therapy: if you change the beavior, you change the way of thinking. But St. Ignatius already told that: do not discuss with a man with a vie (alcohol, for instance), make him forego the vice. Then, he will think completely different, like the smokers who quit smoking who are the most sttuborn anti-smoking guys.
2. You should enter on the causes of homossexuality.
   2.1. Wrong. Homosexuality is a sign of a fallen state as it is everything bad. It is not a special case. To consider the hypothetical teh cure of homosexuality is passiveness. We could consider the cure of AIDS and cancer hypothetical. So, let’s do nothing and, as you say “Let’s look at the real world, as it is now”. For me, that is unbearable… I simply do not accept. To consider homo just a sign of a fallen state and not a disease, I would consider contrary to philosophical catholic thought.
3. As for this, it is answered in 1.
4. God acts not only through Grace but also through doctors, scientists, and investigators. They are God’s hands and brain in today’s world. A simple appendicits that no miracle would cure in the past, is done by any surgeon with closed eyes. It is a God given wisdom through man’s hard work. So, onw day, the cause for hom will be discovered and homo healed.
5. I hope you are wrong.

1. And what about those who have never engaged in homosexual acts and yet are attracted to the same sex?
2. Have you read the Catechisms? The Catechisms uses the word inordinata for disordered, which it also uses to describe masturbation and divorce which while being morally disordered are not in fact mental disorders or diseases.
3. Don’t be so Pelagian in thought.
4. So not only are you in need to theological learning, but science too.
5. Why? The heavier the cross the better. Suffering is good for the soul, cf corporal mortification and fasting.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

You are absolutely correct.

The attraction itself is not sinful. It cannot be sinful because it is not freely chosen. Whoever says otherwise is quite ignorant and severely incorrect.

Tell your friend that rest assured, his temptation is not a sin, and as long as he keeps resisting temptation, God will glorify him.

I’m in complete agreement. If your friend attempts to resist his inclinations and does not embrace a homosexual lifestyle, he is following teachings. Having an unwanted same-sex feeling is not sinful; acting on and partaking in same-sex relations is sinful. Regardless, God truly understands him and loves him as his adopted son.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

1. And what about those who have never engaged in homosexual acts and yet are attracted to the same sex?
2. Have you read the Catechisms? The Catechisms uses the word inordinata for disordered, which it also uses to describe masturbation and divorce which while being morally disordered are not in fact mental disorders or diseases.
3. Don’t be so Pelagian in thought.
4. So not only are you in need to theological learning, but science too.
5. Why? The heavier the cross the better. Suffering is good for the soul, cf corporal mortification and fasting.

1. They have got a problem. I think that was Jesus who said that man was made for woman and the two would become one flesh. So, the answer for your question is that that person has got a problem.
2. Yes, I have read. Mental disorder (look for the root “order”) and diseases are not “ordinata”. Jesus cured lepers and blind and handicapped people.
3. So I am a Pelagian and an herectic, condemned byt Carthage. I did not think I was so important!!!
   So, If I think that Prostitution may be repaired, as well as homosexuality, alcohol adiction and smoke, sex addiction, drug adiction, then I am a Pelagian. So, to be Augustinian, I would have to say that it is the “original sin”, be baptized, go to confession, pray and do nothing else, do not move a finger to modify the world, then you are not herectic !! What an interpretation. If this is it, then I am a Pelagian.
4. Thanks for the praise. But why are you arguing with an ignorant in theology and science? dont you think it is unfair, you, full of wisdom, arguing with an ignorant?
5. Yes, Jesus said that there are people who put burdens on top of others (anyhow, the

The heavier the cross the better. Suffering is good for the soul, cf corporal mortification and fasting

), but do not move a finger to help them. It is easy to put burdens on top of homesexuals and telling them: “Oh! Jesus also suffered in the cross! Suffer with patience!”. Then, like Pilates, we wash our hands, have nothing more to do for them and go for a beer. Sorry, not for me… suffering is mine, not putting on top of the others…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

1. They have got a problem. I think that was Jesus who said that man was made for woman and the two would become one flesh. So, the answer for your question is that that person has got a problem.
2. Yes, I have read. Mental disorder (look for the root “order”) and diseases are not “ordinata”. Jesus cured lepers and blind and handicapped people.
3. So I am a Pelagian and an heretic, condemned byt Carthage. I did not think I was so important!!!
   So, If I think that Prostitution may be repaired, as well as homosexuality, alcohol addiction and smoke, sex addiction, drug addiction, then I am a Pelagian. So, to be Augustinian, I would have to say that it is the “original sin”, be baptized, go to confession, pray and do nothing else, do not move a finger to modify the world, then you are not heretic !! What an interpretation. If this is it, then I am a Pelagian.
4. Thanks for the praise. But why are you arguing with an ignorant in theology and science? don’t you think it is unfair, you, full of wisdom, arguing with an ignorant?
5. Yes, Jesus said that there are people who put burdens on top of others (anyhow, the ), but do not move a finger to help them. It is easy to put burdens on top of homosexuals and telling them: “Oh! Jesus also suffered in the cross! Suffer with patience!”. Then, like Pilates, we wash our hands, have nothing more to do for them and go for a beer. Sorry, not for me… suffering is mine, not putting on top of the others…

DRB Genesis 2:18-24:

And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself. And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name. And Adam called all the beasts by their names, and all the fowls of the air, and all the cattle of the field: but for Adam there was not found a helper like himself. Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam. And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man. Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.

As we can see here woman was actually created for man as his “helper”, man was not created for woman.
DRB 1 Corinthians 7:6-9:

But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I. But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.

And what pray tell does “by indulgence” mean? According to the Haydock “By indulgence. That is, by a condescension to your weakness.” So we can see that they are only joined in flesh, as we see in the parable of the woman with seven husbands parable marriage does not exist in Heaven (until death do us part indeed)
Mark 12:18-27:

And there came to him the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying: Master, Moses wrote unto us, that if any man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed to his brother. Now there were seven brethren; and the first took a wife, and died leaving no issue. And the second took her, and died: and neither did he leave any issue. And the third in like manner. And the seven all took her in like manner; and did not leave issue. Last of all the woman also died. In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise again, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering, saith to them: Do ye not therefore err, because you know not the scriptures, nor the power of God? For when they shall rise again from the dead, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but are as the angels in heaven.

1. So divorce is a mental disorder? Masturbation is a mental disorder? I guess most teenage boys have a mental disorder then.
2. Prostitution is behaviour frequently done out of desperation, many were forced into it by others. Addictions can very much be controlled (stop acting on it, but cravings persist) or even cured (stop acting and cravings go away) depending on the type of addiction (and also the person). Homosexual desires can and do frequently exist before ever engaging in homosexual acts.
3. I didn’t say you were ignorant, only that you were in need of more learning in two areas. Being ignorant isn’t a horrible thing if you are willing to learn, now being willfully ignorant on the other hand…
4. I am acutely aware of how heavy that cross is…