How can you lust for your spouse?

[newbie9]

I’m very confused on the topic of lusting for one’s own spouse. I have read various threads talking about viewing your spouse as an object or similar, but I can’t wrap my mind around what that means practically.

I have read in a book on scrupulosity that it’s a spouse’s right to have impure thoughts about one’s wife (might be slightly misquoting, but close to that). I understand that using those thoughts as background for masturbation or other non-unitive sexual act can be sinful, but the thoughts in and of themselves are not. Beyond that, though, I’m having trouble understanding where a spouse in a marriage where NFP is used to temporarily avoid pregnancy (so sex/sexual pleasure is always unitive and open to life) can actually lust for one’s spouse. I could even see the argument of a couple using ABC where they might be wrong for using ABC, but would not necessarily be guilty of lust

In practical terms, could someone help me understand how this sin could be committed in an otherwise Catholic teaching-following marriage? If the answer is that you can’t really commit this sin without also committing another sin (as in my masturbation example) then I can understand that and it would actually be a pretty clear explanation.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m very confused on the topic of lusting for one’s own spouse. I have read various threads talking about viewing your spouse as an object or similar, but I can’t wrap my mind around what that means practically.

For example *using *ones spouse as just a means to getting sexual pleasure…no love etc… a person is never to be merely a means to an end…they are always to remain a person and loved as such…

I have read in a book on scrupulosity that it’s a spouse’s right to have impure thoughts about one’s wife (might be slightly misquoting, but close to that).

No. Actually it would be sinful to have* impure *thoughts about ones spouse. What your thinking of is having sexual thoughts about ones spouse (though of course one needs to take care here still…)

I’m having trouble understanding where a spouse in a marriage where NFP is used to temporarily avoid pregnancy (so sex/sexual pleasure is always unitive and open to life) can actually lust for one’s spouse.

By not loving them…by using them…making them thus an object…not ones spouse when one loves…

I could even see the argument of a couple using ABC where they might be wrong for using ABC, but would not necessarily be guilty of lust

Yes…such would be a form of lust (see the CCC)

 

[Vico]

I’m very confused on the topic of lusting for one’s own spouse. I have read various threads talking about viewing your spouse as an object or similar, but I can’t wrap my mind around what that means practically.

I have read in a book on scrupulosity that it’s a spouse’s right to have impure thoughts about one’s wife (might be slightly misquoting, but close to that). I understand that using those thoughts as background for masturbation or other non-unitive sexual act can be sinful, but the thoughts in and of themselves are not. Beyond that, though, I’m having trouble understanding where a spouse in a marriage where NFP is used to temporarily avoid pregnancy (so sex/sexual pleasure is always unitive and open to life) can actually lust for one’s spouse. I could even see the argument of a couple using ABC where they might be wrong for using ABC, but would not necessarily be guilty of lust

In practical terms, could someone help me understand how this sin could be committed in an otherwise Catholic teaching-following marriage? If the answer is that you can’t really commit this sin without also committing another sin (as in my masturbation example) then I can understand that and it would actually be a pretty clear explanation.

Easy, lust is the disordered sexual desire. It can be disordered in many ways. There should always be respect and not using your spouse for one’s own gratification as an object. Also not using the proper form for a conjugal act is disodered, and entertaining fantasy about that is also. A list of justifiable reasons to where refusal (abstinance) is ordered, even if not mutually agreed upon, is useful:

1. if the spouse has been unfaithful to the extent of adultery (until forgiveness of the injured party).
2. if there is a danger of the infection of disease.
3. if the request is unreasonable.
4. if it be under conditions that are genuinely harmful and distressing.
5. if it is going to be abused by the sin of onanism.
6. if a pregnancy would be fatal or highly dangerous.
7. medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called "indications, may exempt from the positive debt (of fecundity) for the entire period of marital life, however natural sterile periods may be utilized.

 

[newbie9]

I appreciate the responses, but I’m not sure they gave me much more clarity on the matter. I am trying to figure out how one practically could commit this sin. How would one in an otherwise loving marriage use a spouse just for sexual pleasure? If someone love’s their spouse, is having unitive and open to life relations, wants to have sex, desires sexual pleasure with them, and is not. I guess my question is, in practical terms, how would the love fall out of the equation? With the abstinence required for NFP, the can be pent up desire, but I don’t see how that would make it any more lustful/less loving? Does one have to explicitly say I am only doing this for pleasure not for love?

Also not using the proper form for a conjugal act is disodered, and entertaining fantasy about that is also.

I assume by this you mean completing the marriage act in the intended form (i.e. not oral, etc.)? I can understand how that can be a sin of lust, but just am having trouble understanding the others.

No. Actually it would be sinful to have impure thoughts about ones spouse. What your thinking of is having sexual thoughts about ones spouse (though of course one needs to take care here still…)

I unfortunately don’t have the book with me right now, but what do you mean by this? In my mind, impure thoughts = sexual thoughts. What is the difference? Also, why would one need to take care about having sexual thoughts about one’s spouse that are allowed?

 

[Bookcat]

I unfortunately don’t have the book with me right now, but what do you mean by this? In my mind, impure thoughts = sexual thoughts. What is the difference? Also, why would one need to take care about having sexual thoughts about one’s spouse that are allowed?

Thoughts about chaste marital relations between spouses are by definition not “Impure thoughts”.

Sexual thoughts about another person other than your spouse…or for a single person (other than say the needed thoughts involved in the study of moral theology…that sort of thing)…or sexual thoughts about your spouse which are about things of a sinful nature even for the married… these are “impure thoughts” of the sexual kind.

As for the latter…one can go to excess…one can put oneself into an near occasion of sin…or one can even “objectify” ones spouse in ones thoughts…again making them merely a means. One could get too aroused etc…Those are some examples…And temperance is to govern all things…including marital relations and that related to such.

One distinction would be also that another way of lusting after ones spouse would be to “treat only as a woman” as if you were not with your wife…but just having sex with some woman (fornication). That is one way one could “objectify her”…use her.

 

[Bookcat]

I appreciate the responses, but I’m not sure they gave me much more clarity on the matter. I am trying to figure out how one practically could commit this sin. How would one in an otherwise loving marriage use a spouse just for sexual pleasure? If someone love’s their spouse, is having unitive and open to life relations, wants to have sex, desires sexual pleasure with them, and is not. I guess my question is, in practical terms, how would the love fall out of the equation? With the abstinence required for NFP, the can be pent up desire, but I don’t see how that would make it any more lustful/less loving? Does one have to explicitly say I am only doing this for pleasure not for love?

Hopefully it will not be much of a problem if any for you (and by the way such can be a venial sin often in marriage…). Sounds like your on the right track.

(By the way there are other ways one can sin in marriage relations other than “lust”…but such is the case in life…we do not go long without some venial sins…not that we should not seek to avoid them…but while we are “saints” if we are living in Christ in the state of grace…one will have various venial sins for which to pray “forgive us our trespasses”…each day)

As for NFP and the increased desire for marital relations…such an increased desire does not mean one is sinning!

But in regards to NFP…if one does not have serious reason…such is one way to sin. But such a serious reason does not have to be “life or death” there are many things that come up in life…

Keep loving your wife and living in Christ!

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding Marital relations:

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."144 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.145

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P86.HTM

 

[Bookcat]

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. the temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74

To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one’s heart, with all one’s soul and with all one’s efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only (God) (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).75

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P65.HTM