How can you not wonder?

[Cure]

If God already knows what we are going to do, say, and which path we will take in life LONG before we were even born…can we say that we truly have free will? Or is our path already set?

He already knows who will be evil, what evil acts they will commit, who’s lives these evil people will destroy.

He already knows who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell…and He knew this long before we were even born.

Man is born with original sin because Adam’s disobedience…and that sin is the condemnation of man. However, God is all-knowing, so He knew what Adam was going to do before Adam did it…and He knew what the consequences would be…yet He allowed it.

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

 

[JaredR]

God doesn’t see time the way we do. God is outside time. Here is an excerpt from Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis that might help you:

"Our life comes to us moment by moment. One moment disappears before the next comes along: and there is room for very little in each. That is what Time is like. And of course you and I tend to take it for granted that this Time series - this arrangement of past, present and future - is not simply the way life comes to us but the way all things really exist. We tend to assume that the whole universe and God Himself are always moving on from past to future just as we do. But many learned men do not agree with that. It was the Theologians who first started the idea that some things are not in Time at all: later the Philosophers took it over: and now some of the scientists are doing the same.

"Almost certainly God is not in Time. His life does not consist of moments following one another. If a million people are praying to Him at ten-thirty tonight, He need not listen to them all in that one little snippet which we call ten-thirty. Ten-thirty-and every other moment from the beginning of the world-is always the Present for Him. If you like to put it that way, He has all eternity in which to listen to the split second of prayer put up by a pilot as his plane crashes in flames.

…]

“He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simply sees you doing them, because, though you have lost yesterday, He has not. He does not ‘foresee’ you doing things to-morrow; He simply sees you doing them because, though to-morrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him. You never supposed that your actions at this moment were any less free because God knows what you are doing. Well. He knows your tomorrow’s actions in just the same way -because He is already in to-morrow and can simply watch you. In a sense, He does not know your action till you have done it: but then the moment at which you have done it is already `Now’ for Him.”

He doesn’t see what we will do ‘in the future.’ From His perspective, it is the present.

 

[Stylites]

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

The presence of evil in the world is a mystery which the human mind cannot understand. A deeper mystery, too, is God and His nature, and the kinds of consolations He can give, and why He does what He does. If we were to understand God and His ways then we would have to have to mind of God to do so.

The freedom in us is not something to lament, or be fearful of, or fret about the nature of God over. We all have a choice to make in life; we need to worry about our own choices and not be concerned about how our choices or the choices of others reflect upon God, who is by definition, as we hold true by the gift of faith, all-perfect, all-knowing, all-merciful and all-loving.

.

 

[Ferds_Guiang]

I believe that the degree of faith we have can and will determine how much we may understand God’s will for us. Since much is shrouded in mystery a person of faith has to be guided by God’s will in the form of the dogmas and commands. That is why we cannot use our categories of Time to understand God’s knowledge of everything, past, present and future. Some theologians would even say that for God everything is present.

 

[tee]

Well, the way I understand free will and how God’s all knowing is like this.

Have you ever know anyone so well that you know how that person is going to react to a certain situation or ever hear a couple finishing off each other sentences? Well, when you know that person very well you can tell what choices that person is going to make but the choices are still made by that person not by you, just like God. However, God is like a trillion times better and more all knowing of all his children than you would about anybody. He knows and he wants his children to be good, but to be good or not is our choice not His. That’s why it makes it more painful for God to see that his children denied Him willfully, and makes His love so great for loving us still.

Love is not love if it’s not free. Would you call love if a man forces a woman to marry him? So although God knows that there’s only death if you don’t choose Him, it is also not love if He doesn’t give you free will.

 

[MikeLurie]

If God already knows what we are going to do, say, and which path we will take in life LONG before we were even born…can we say that we truly have free will? Or is our path already set?

Because God knows what is going to happen and doesn’t prevent it is even more proof that we do have free will. If God stepped in and saved the day, then that would be a set path, that wouldn’t be free will. It would be God’s will. The paths we follow in life don’t change, only the direction we take on those paths. And God gives us an option to go any direction we want. That is the definition of free will. Whether we follow the right path or not is up to us.

If a visitor in your home doesn’t know how to exit your neighborhood at the end of the visit, and you give them directions to get back to the highway, it’s still up to them to follow your directions. They can’t deviate from your directions, proceed to get lost in your neighborhood and then blame you for not preventing them from getting lost. You gave them directions… they didn’t listen. It doesn’t matter if you knew ahead of time that they wouldn’t follow your directions. You gave them the option.

Conversly, if you see them making a wrong turn as they depart your driveway, and you jump in your car and chase them down in order to point them in the right direction, did you truly give them free will? No, you intervened in an attempt to keep them on the correct path. This isn’t free will because you are essentially putting them back on the course that you feel they should follow. It’s your will.

He already knows who will be evil, what evil acts they will commit, who’s lives these evil people will destroy.

He already knows who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell…and He knew this long before we were even born.

That’s correct. And because we all have free will, we have the choice of being evil, committing evil acts and destroying people’s lives. We also have the choice to forgive those people that commit evil acts and destroy our lives, or become bitter and angry at God for allowing it to happen.

It really boils down to the age old argument; “why does a good God allow bad things to happen?”

And the answer is because he has given us free will. And also because God doesn’t allow bad things to happen in order to punish us. Just as the blacksmith doesn’t put iron in a fire to punish it, but to strengthen it. You are being tested and strengthened in this life so that you will be prepared for the next life, the eternal life.

It’s easy to forget this, being of this world… but you have to remember, we aren’t children of this life, we are children of eternal life. And while the trials and tribulations of this life are often difficult to understand and accept, we are reminded that nothing of this life is retained. Not our possessions, not our loved ones, nothing.

Man is born with original sin because Adam’s disobedience…and that sin is the condemnation of man. However, God is all-knowing, so He knew what Adam was going to do before Adam did it…and He knew what the consequences would be…yet He allowed it.

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

God is loving and merciful for even giving us this life to begin with. Without the loss of life and all that we hold dear in this life, we would never know the pleasures of this life. Without the downs, there couldn’t be ups. Without the evil, there couldn’t be the good. Without the yin, there could never be yang.

We must try to remember, God’s sacrifice (His only begotten Son) is greater than any sacrifice we will ever make in this world. Our sacrifices are nothing.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

If God already knows what we are going to do, say, and which path we will take in life LONG before we were even born…can we say that we truly have free will? Or is our path already set?

He already knows who will be evil, what evil acts they will commit, who’s lives these evil people will destroy.

He already knows who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell…and He knew this long before we were even born.

Man is born with original sin because Adam’s disobedience…and that sin is the condemnation of man. However, God is all-knowing, so He knew what Adam was going to do before Adam did it…and He knew what the consequences would be…yet He allowed it.

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

Watch the Matrix movies, especially Matrix 2 - Reloaded. The oracle has a conversation with Neo about choices. She tells him that he has already made the choices before he came to see her. His job was to understand why he made the choices to begin with. You can learn a lot from the Matrix

Peace…

MW

 

[beckycmarie]

You can learn a lot from the Matrix

. . .if you want to learn all about gnosticism.

See this article in Envoy Magazine:

The New Gnostic Gospel

Gnostic Elements in The Matrix
Once we’re acquainted with this worldview, we can see how The Matrix clearly unfolds as a modern retelling of the Gnostic version of salvation history. From the opening credits to the closing scene, a complex interweave of pagan myth and Christian symbol is used to create the Gnostic worldview right before our eyes.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

. . .if you want to learn all about gnosticism.

See this article in Envoy Magazine:

The New Gnostic Gospel

That was…interesting. I had to laugh as I read it. People read into it exactly what they want to. The same is true for Scripture or anything else for that matter. If you come to something with pre-conceived notions, you’re going to get exactly that out of it.

The story of the Matrix has allusions to many things and that’s the beauty of it. It’s an artistic expression of the questions that most humans try to come to grips with. Many of us have asked the very questions that were raised from the films. It’s called being human.

Having studied Buddhism and Christianity (and practiced both), I find elements of both in the movies. People can look at the same painting and come away with different views on what it means - because it means something to each one personally. There’s nothing wrong with that.

It’s certainly not a Catholic movie, but neither is it a pagan, political or environmental movie. It is what it is - a story with elements that make all of us consider what it is to be a human and live in our world, surrounded by things that we don’t understand, but wish we did.

The truth is that life itself is a more scary, ugly and beautiful place than any movie or book or painting can describe. If you don’t believe that, look inside yourself and see. I know I have and I see all of that - because that’s what we are. The truth is stranger and more terrifying than any fiction that the Wachowski brothers can dream up.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Okay, Cure, back to your topic:

If God already knows what we are going to do, say, and which path we will take in life LONG before we were even born…can we say that we truly have free will? Or is our path already set?

Yes, we do have free will, but there are always conditions. In other words, we can do whatever we want - make any choice we want. But, there are consequences for the roads we take. I personally believe that there are many potential futures - all dependent on the choices we make - similar to (here’s another movie for you) Back to the Future 2 and 3.

He already knows who will be evil, what evil acts they will commit, who’s lives these evil people will destroy.

Yes.

He already knows who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell…and He knew this long before we were even born.

Yes.

Man is born with original sin because Adam’s disobedience…and that sin is the condemnation of man. However, God is all-knowing, so He knew what Adam was going to do before Adam did it…and He knew what the consequences would be…yet He allowed it.

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

You can spend a lifetime pondering this question. However, don’t let your unanswered questions lead you away from your Catholic faith. Instead, live your life as you are supposed to. And above all - love. Nothing else really matters.

Peace…

MW

 

[beckycmarie]

Man is born with original sin because Adam’s disobedience…and that sin is the condemnation of man. However, God is all-knowing, so He knew what Adam was going to do before Adam did it…and He knew what the consequences would be…yet He allowed it.

Makes you wonder if God is as loving and merciful as we paint Him as.

He knew all this was going to happen, and that He would have to send His only Son to die an agonizing death on a cross to redeem us, and yet He created us anyway.

That pretty much settles the issue of whether God is loving and merciful for me.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiyas

Actually, I can honestly say, I’ve never wondered about God’s love or mercy.

I have questioned my own, at times