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Riley259
Guest
Here’s a couple sources: This proof of God’s existence from This Rock magazine - catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605uan.asp
…and the book The Science Before Science by Anthony Rizzi
How can you prove the existence of God through (being)metaphysics/ontology?
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…and the book The Science Before Science by Anthony Rizzi
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Riley259
Guest
Thanks for the resource.
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Questioning_1
Guest
For many of the world the existence of God does need to be proven. The world doesn’t care about the bible or care about your faith. We need tangible reasons on way we should believe.
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bogeydogg
Guest
It is worth noting that Anselm’s “argument” was actually a meditation in a prayer and was not intended to be an argument at all. Also, just because I can conceive of something does not make it exist. For example, I can conceive of a unicorn, I know what a horse looks like, even a white one, and I know what horns look like, I’ve seen a goat after all, if I put those two things together in my mind, voila, a unicorn.
Of course unicorns don’t exist so my concept proves nothing.
However, Anselm’s meditation was “that of which nothing higher can be conceived.” If existence can be thought of as a higher state of ontological being than nonexistence, that is if my being is higher because I exist rather than if I were a dream and I was the imagination of myself (Timothy Leary was crazy), then I can reasonably assert that God does exist.
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Asuno
Guest
Ultimately, even though plenty of scientific evidence argues for the existence of God rather than against Him, there’s just only so much you can do. Pray for these people to gain the gift of Faith. Faith truly is a gift, a precious gift. They say knowledge is power, and I believe that, but I believe Faith is a greater power than knowledge. Knowledge of God is “fine” and “okay”, but Faith in Him is AWESOME! God inspires awe in us (well He does me anyway), and that’s what “fear of the Lord” really is (not stark terror, like some believe). Knowledge will give you the mechanics of flight, but Faith will give you the wings to do it.
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Winnie_Loke
Guest
It is God who goes out of HIS way to seek the lost sheep but not vice versa. However, it’s human responsibilty to respond to His call. I always think there’s some arrogance in the statement “Knowledge is Power”. It takes a heart to see the existence of God, not just the head. One has to have the heart of a child to feel God.
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agangbern
Guest
Metaphysics is good only for those who posses the intellectual power for it, and only a few possess that intellectual power.The majority do not have that. Therefore, if salvation should require knowledge of metaphysics, then only a few would be saved. And that would be unfair.
My metaphysics would revolve only with the fact of LIFE. No one will deny that life exists. How many years have life been here on earth? All through those years, have anyone proven beyond doubt that life could come forth from purely non-living/inorganic thing? Nobody!
If so, where did life come from? That Primary/Ultimate Source of life is what I call God!
My metaphysics would revolve only with the fact of LIFE. No one will deny that life exists. How many years have life been here on earth? All through those years, have anyone proven beyond doubt that life could come forth from purely non-living/inorganic thing? Nobody!
If so, where did life come from? That Primary/Ultimate Source of life is what I call God!
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Doug50
Guest
I pretty much agree with what you are saying but I personnally have a problem with the word “feel”
I think too much of our current religous focus is based upon having a feelings experience. A lot of religous retreats and religous directors put an emphasis on emotionalism. Problem is, when is an emotion experience a spiritual one? I see people mistakenly equating their emotionalism for spirtuality.
Thomas Aquinas identified 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit:
1 Wisdom - desire for the things of God, and to direct our whole life and all our actions to His honor and glory
2 Understanding - enable us to know more clearly the mysteries of faith
3 Counsel - warn us of the deceits of the devil, and of the dangers to salvation
4 Fortitude - strengthen us to do the will of God in all things
5 Knowledge - enable us to discover the will of God in all things
6 Piety - love God as a Father, and obey Him because we love Him
7 Fear of the Lord - have a dread of sin and fear of offending God
I believe Archbishop Martinez, in his book “Secrets to the Interior Life”, was very poignant when he said:
Rely On Faith, Not On Feelings
It is not my intention at this time to speak of the importance that the spirit of faith has in the spiritual life, or of the necessity of judging everything with a supernatural rule, or of performing all our works with aims and intentions of the same order. This is what I wish to insist upon and to call attention to in an empathic manner; the chief reason we disregard faith is our preconceived idea that we must feel God and divine things. Although we know speculatively that God is not felt, practically we hold the contrary.
Do we feel a sacrament producing its proper effect? Do we feel the increase of grace in our soul? Do we feel the death of the soul by sin and its resurrection by sacramental absolution? Do we feel the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist in such a way that if we did not perceive Him sensibly, we would not believe in it?
Without doubt there are times when our Lord allows Himself to be sensibly felt, yet it is not precisely grace that is felt, but often something else that accompanies it. We go to Confession to a priest who simply listens to our sins, gives penance, and absolves; and we feel nothing. We go to another who understands us, who helps us in our disclosures to him, who gives us helpful advice; and we feel such a peace and refreshment that upon arising, we seem to be other beings. Was it the grace of the sacrament that we felt? No. It was the profitable experience that we had with the second priest.
To be conscious of a thing and to feel it sensibly are not the same thing; neither is one’s whole spiritual life a thing of continual conscious awareness. If we read the life of St. Therese of the Child Jesus with attention, we shall be convinced that she experienced delight only a very few times in her spiritual life, and that she rarely enjoyed sensible consolation [with God]. She lived by faith, by the obscurity of faith, and she is one of the most marvelous examples of that life of faith.
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Winnie_Loke
Guest
Hi, Doug50, your opinion is well taken. Last year I went to the Philippines and visited some churches. I remembered in the Chapel of Black Nazerene, which is located in a low income neighbourhood, people would line up for a long time just to touch the statue of Jesus (built with ebony wood) for couple seconds. Is this some kind of superstition? The pastor of our church once said that having faith and loving God are not the priviledge of a few intellectuals. People from different backgorunds have different ways of expressing their faith. Lining up for the statue of Jesus is as good as attending Bible Study group. Mind you some believers in developing countries are still illiterate and yet I don’t think their faith in God is inevitably weaker than someone who is well educated. I think God has many different ways to reach out. His plan is a mystery for us to comprehend sometimes.
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Pete_1
Guest
Wow, do you have a source for this?
How are Aquinas’ five proofs refuted (especially the existance of God by motion)
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Monty_Arch
Guest
EWTN had a series called FINDING GOD THROUGH FAITH AND REASON
From the EWTN.com:
“Fr. Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D., lends insight into new evidence gathered from the fields of contemporary philosophy and physics which supports proof for the existence of God. The universe itself connotes the existence of a creator and the principle of intelligent design leads to logical conclusions about the nature of God.”
This is an excellent program.
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Doug50
Guest
Father Robert Spitzer: The Anthropic Principle - Theistic ImplicationsEWTN had a series called FINDING GOD THROUGH FAITH AND REASON
From the EWTN.com:
“Fr. Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D., lends insight into new evidence gathered from the fields of contemporary philosophy and physics which supports proof for the existence of God. The universe itself connotes the existence of a creator and the principle of intelligent design leads to logical conclusions about the nature of God.”
This is an excellent program.
counterbalance.net/cosmcrea/spitzer-frame.html
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