How can you trust God when you can't trust yourself?

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This is something I’ve really been struggling with. I understand that you’re supposed to trust God. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to you yourself trusting the right God, choosing the right church to follow, following the right set of teachings, all that. I know from personal experience that you can trust in what your best evidence at the time says is God, do what your best evidence says is God’s will, and still be horribly wrong. I did everything right at the time. I studied the Bible, I studied church history, I listened to the advice of those I respected - and it all led me down a completely wrong path.

I am fallible, and there are a multitude of voices out there claiming to be the one true religion. There is more evidence in the world than I could in a lifetime of study every encompass. How can I, poor limited mortal that I am, ever hope to any surety that what I am following is right? How can I trust God when I am too aware of my own limits to ever trust that it is truly God’s will I am trusting, and not another diversion of men?
 
You are absolutely right. Many people follow their parents in their choice of religion. A few brave souls start the long solo journey. Most don’t give it much thought at all.

My only suggestion is prayer to God that you are given the true faith. In the meantime follow your conscience and forever keep it informed as best you can. A good person is attracted to the Good. Or, He may come looking for you…

What an adventure!
 
It is precisely because we cannot trust ourselves that we must place our trust in God. God knows that, of ourselves, we are nothing and can do nothing. But He loves us. So we ought to seek Him faithfully, but with much confidence and gratitude, for our seeking is made possible by His grace.
 
It is precisely because we cannot trust ourselves that we must place our trust in God. God knows that, of ourselves, we are nothing and can do nothing. But He loves us. So we ought to seek Him faithfully, but with much confidence and gratitude, for our seeking is made possible by His grace.
But you’re still relying on yourself, that you’ve placed your trust in the right God. It could all be for nothing because you simply made a mistake and thought you were trusting in God and seeking him and you were in error the whole time.
 
+JMJ+
But you’re still relying on yourself, that you’ve placed your trust in the right God. It could all be for nothing because you simply made a mistake and thought you were trusting in God and seeking him and you were in error the whole time.
littlestsouls2’s point can be summarized in these words:

“The measure of love is to love without measure.” — St. Francis de Sales

That is, to love God without any reassurance that what you are doing is the right thing because you doubt yourself, to have all faith in God that He will lead you straight towards Him in ways mysterious.
 
+JMJ+

However, I can point you to a good way to start. As St. John said,

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 1 John 4:20

Therefore, go and volunteer in a charity program, like for example a volunteer program in a local hospital or the local library or such. Also, reconcile with an estranged family member or friend.
 
My best advice (this advice I gave to myself)
If you want proof of a God then just look at the saints they have many amazing proofs of not only the existence of a God but of Jesus himself

Pascal’s Wager
In brief, Pascal’s Wager states that it is better to believe in God than not because the benefit of believing is potentially infinite (Heaven) and the downside of not believing (Hell) is potentially infinite. The actual act of believing requires only a finite expenditure of energy (as we are finite creatures) therefore it is always worth believing and never worth not believing.

Thomas Aquinas
The First Way: Argument from Motion
Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
Therefore nothing can move itself.
Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes
We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
Nothing exists prior to itself.
Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)
We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
Assume that every being is a contingent being.
For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.

The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being
There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The Fifth Way: Argument from Design
We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
Most natural things lack knowledge.
But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

also If you want proof that Catholicism is the way to go (in terms of Christians) I’ll put it bluntly Who gave Luther, Calvin or whoever created the branch the authority to do so? We can trace our faith directly to Christ the others trace theirs to a human we trace ours to God

Hope this helps
I’ll be praying for you!
Chuck
 
A very interesting topic. One i have thought about many times myself. Questioning if i am doing what God wants me to do. Am i in the right church etc?

Read. This is what i would say. Read as much as you can about the saints, church history (Catholic) and pray. Keep loving God and asking him to guide you. Maybe the answer is on the next page of a book you are reading? Maybe God will give you that answer from your Bible reading!

Faith in God is the first step. Loving God.
 
A very interesting topic. One i have thought about many times myself. Questioning if i am doing what God wants me to do. Am i in the right church etc?

Read. This is what i would say. Read as much as you can about the saints, church history (Catholic) and pray. Keep loving God and asking him to guide you. Maybe the answer is on the next page of a book you are reading? Maybe God will give you that answer from your Bible reading!

Faith in God is the first step. Loving God.
The difficulty for me is that I did all those things (well, not reading about the saints since I wasn’t Catholic), and I still got led astray. I read the Bible, and at the time the Bible clearly and obviously indicated things that I know believe are absolutely wrong.
 
The difficulty for me is that I did all those things (well, not reading about the saints since I wasn’t Catholic), and I still got led astray. I read the Bible, and at the time the Bible clearly and obviously indicated things that I know believe are absolutely wrong.
Sometimes you need guidance when reading scripture. Lots of people reply on Sola Scripture and that can lead you down the wrong path too.

Seek spiritual guidance. This is where the Catholic church can help.
 
Sometimes you need guidance when reading scripture. Lots of people reply on Sola Scripture and that can lead you down the wrong path too.

Seek spiritual guidance. This is where the Catholic church can help.
But how can I be absolutely positive that I should be following the Catholic church, and not some other church? Sure I can read and study - but I read and studied then too and trusted in the church I was in then, and it lead me astray. No amount of study that I do on my own could make me certain enough that I’m in the right church, because I know how easily even the most diligent scholar can be led astray.
 
But how can I be absolutely positive that I should be following the Catholic church, and not some other church? Sure I can read and study - but I read and studied then too and trusted in the church I was in then, and it lead me astray. No amount of study that I do on my own could make me certain enough that I’m in the right church, because I know how easily even the most diligent scholar can be led astray.
Have you studied the Catholic church / faith?
 
Have you studied the Catholic church / faith?
Yes, but it’s not enough. It can never be enough because I am only human and make mistakes, and the stakes are too high for me to be comfortable when I could have made a mistake.
 
Yes, but it’s not enough. It can never be enough because I am only human and make mistakes, and the stakes are too high for me to be comfortable when I could have made a mistake.
Then you need more time. For me, obviously, there is no other Church!

Remember, the Catholic Church goes right back to Jesus! Others only started around the time of Luther and after!

Catholic church has a very long tradition and many saints / miracles etc.
 
+JMJ+
Yes, but it’s not enough. It can never be enough because I am only human and make mistakes, and the stakes are too high for me to be comfortable when I could have made a mistake.
Hence, “The measure of love is to love without measure.” Do not care about mistakes, care only about God, even though you don’t know Him. God also knows the stakes so let Him worry about them.
 
QUOTE=DarkLight;13728647]I have a philosophy degree. I know a lot of arguments - it’s simply not enough when I compare it to my own human fallibility.

Philosophy is also subject to human error, and mankind has by no means even touched the tip of the iceberg when it comes to knowledge, reality, and existence. The most important piece of knowledge you ought to know, is that we know very little, and for that reason, we cannot trust ourselves, insomuch as our understanding is concerned…but can you not trust that you believe in the one true God simply because you yourself are fallible? We do not need to understand all things in order to be sure of something, God gives us what we need to have confidence in Him and His teachings…and I think that what you need is not necessarily understanding, but the virtue of faith, which is trust and confidence in God…but faith is an infused virtue, if you do not have it, you must ask for it,
I know it may be hard to trust in certain things without understanding them first, but God does not ask us to believe without reason, He has given us what we need to at least be able to choose what is true from what is false, by means of our intellect, and then also through prayer God does dirrect our thoughts.

Perhaps it would help, in addition to praying for faith and guidance, to also consider the most simple and basic foundations of our faith…reason being, sometimes we make it so complicated for ourselves by over thinking things and trying to unlock the deep mysteries or what have you, and in reality the answer is so simple that a child could understand…I think that sometimes we just miss the best answers for the sake of wanting to have a more intelligent answer…but God prefers that we have a simple faith, He asks us to be like little children…not because they are ignorant, not because they have blind trust, but because of their simplicity. If God gives us answers or understanding, He does not want us to take pride in it, when we take pride in what we know, or anything at all really, then we are not using it for what God intended, all things return to one end, to know, love, and serve God in this life, so that we may be happy with Him in the next…and the more we take pride in things, the less we can use them for growing closer to God, because pride takes for self, attributes to self, looks inward at self, whereas God reveals Himself not to the proud, but to the humble, he reveals Himself to those who will see Him, and not take glory in His gifts, but return all things to Him…

Well, I think I got alittle carried away and have yet to get to a point…but what I want to get at is, we do not trust in ourselves but in God, and you may know that you believe in the one true God because He has revealed it to you, not because you learned it or discovered it on your own, God directs us alot more than we would realize, but how do you know it’s God who has directed you? Or how do you know it is Him and not your own thoughts or the devil or the world influencing you? That is precisely why Jesus founded the Catholic Church, He knew better than anyone that it is not enough to trust the words of men or our own thoughts, so He promised that He would be with us always, and that the Holy Ghost would guide the Church…although the Church is currently seeing some very confusing times right now, but her teachings are safe, if you just look to a less confusing time, find books written before the 1950’s, when truths were separated from opinions… But what I’m trying to say is, you can compare what you think/believe, with what the Church teaches as truth, and by that can gain confidence.

But then of course you asked, how do we know what religion or what God is true? Well, which one seems the least fabricated by man?
Ask yourself, what does man tend towards most? He tends most towards himself, towards the world, he wants to please his fellow man and have comfort and joy in this life…can you think of any other religion whatsoever, other than the Catholic Church, that is not somehow man centered?
Christ told us that if we wish to follow Him, we must take up our cross daily, He told us if we do follow Him, the world would hate us, He asks us to be poor in spirit, to detach from all things of this world, to love God above all else, and to love our neighbor as ourself for the love of God, to forgive our enemies, and do good to our persecutors…the list goes on…and so how many other religions teach this way of life? This complete abandonment of self for God? Some religions may teach it in part, but only the Catholic Church teaches it in full without sway…and what have we to gain except God by this path? The way of the Cross is a path only the selfless can take, because selfishness hates to suffer, but in this life, as Christ showed us, we cannot love without suffering,
Suffering is something most want nothing to do with, and yet it was greatly valued by those who loved God the most, namely, the saints, they had a secret love with God through their sufferings, and it was not the pains that gave them joy, they did not like pain anymore than you or I, what they found joy in was doing for God, loving Him by sacrifice, comforting Him by sharing in His passion, they completely forgot who they were, they did not even know themselves to trust in themselves, all they knew was God, and God lived in them, and shown through them.

Well, I guess I will stop here before I go on too long, but I hope this helps, take care.
 
I have a philosophy degree. I know a lot of arguments - it’s simply not enough when I compare it to my own human fallibility.
what is “simply not enough”
The whole reason that you have fallibility is because you are human
If you didn’t God would have no reason to come to earth.

One way of looking at this is like this (spoiler I am about to repeat myself) :If you are perfect why do you need to be saved? We need to sin for God to save us
Also the Catholic faith requires faith. There is no other way.

I’m sorry if this come out as coarse or rude but, what does your philosophy degree have anything to do with you not believing in God? I don’t see how a degree will help you when you don’t even trust yourself!

Chuck
 
But you’re still relying on yourself, that you’ve placed your trust in the right God. It could all be for nothing because you simply made a mistake and thought you were trusting in God and seeking him and you were in error the whole time.
God actualises our potency for good; therefore, whenever we seek the true and the good, we are being led by Him. A corollary of this axiom is that if we seek God sincerely, He will reveal Himself to us (Jer. 29:13).

Sure, not everyone receives the fullness of the truth in the Catholic Faith, but the truth still remains that all souls of good-will are united to God.

You don’t have to rely on yourself to see that the Saints have worked countless miracles throughout the ages, as a testament to the truth of the Catholic Faith, which is itself the recipient of many miracles, including the Saints themselves.
 
what is “simply not enough”
The whole reason that you have fallibility is because you are human
If you didn’t God would have no reason to come to earth.

One way of looking at this is like this (spoiler I am about to repeat myself) :If you are perfect why do you need to be saved? We need to sin for God to save us
Also the Catholic faith requires faith. There is no other way.

I’m sorry if this come out as coarse or rude but, what does your philosophy degree have anything to do with you not believing in God? I don’t see how a degree will help you when you don’t even trust yourself!

Chuck
I’m saying it’s not that I don’t trust myself because I am ignorant or uneducated - by the standards of most people I am quite highly educated in matters of faith and the reasons behind it. It’s just that for me, no matter how much education I have, it’s never enough to settle the lingering fear that I might, for all my study and desire to believe in God and in what is good and right, simply be in error.
 
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