How Catholic do I need to be to become Catholic?

[Peter_J]

I’m in the same position right now. Well on my way to Catholicism, but still have a couple of issues I need to work out. To me, the most important issues are the dogmas. These are true Catholic non-negotiables. Then there are doctrines and theological opinions.

I can tell you that in this forum, there are a number of people who will tell you to accept it all without question or stay out of the church entirely. There are others with a slightly more open perspective.

Like you, I am still undecided. I can’t imagine going back to Protestantism, but I’m still working on a few issues with Catholicism.

To me, if a convert to Catholicism said that he/she had “accepted it all without question”, I would have to question (no pun intended) whether he/she had truly converted.

 

[adamhovey1988]

When I came into the Church I had to “reject Satan and all his works”, that’s a good place to start.

 

[PolliceVerso]

I’m in the same position right now. Well on my way to Catholicism, but still have a couple of issues I need to work out. To me, the most important issues are the dogmas. These are true Catholic non-negotiables. Then there are doctrines and theological opinions.

I can tell you that in this forum, there are a number of people who will tell you to accept it all without question or stay out of the church entirely. There are others with a slightly more open perspective.

Like you, I am still undecided. I can’t imagine going back to Protestantism, but I’m still working on a few issues with Catholicism.

I agree with that last sentence for sure, though it is hard leaving my denomination - the PCA does get a lot right, despite its shortcomings. What denomination are you coming from? And what prompted you to move toward the Church? What are your struggles with Church doctrine? If you don’t want to discuss here feel free to send me a private message.

 

[steve_b]

I grew up in a Protestant (Presbyterian) home, but over the years have developed a admiration and appreciation for Catholicism, and am considering joining the Church. I am very well-read on Catholic and Reformed Protestant theology, and believe there is really very little true difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. Many distinctions, but few differences.

Anyway, in the areas where there are true differences, I believe in some areas the Catholics have it right and the Protestants are wrong, while in other areas the Protestants have it right and the Catholics are wrong. So my question is, while certainly submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church (Presbyterians have the exact same requirement), do I have to agree with every jot and tittle of the Catechism? Can I agree largely with Church doctrine and submit to her authority without agreeing on every point? Or does it depend on the local parish?

Thanks in advance…

Re: the question asked in the topic

Don’t approach this from a minimalist perspective. That would demonstrate faulty reasoning and faulty understanding in what it means to become Catholic

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I think every Catholic I have ever met, including myself, was cafeteria in some way.

Saying “every” can be dangerous. I think that for those who may be cafeteria Catholics, there are others who are not. I am not a cafeteria Catholic.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thank you for this - very helpful. I have read quite a bit, but have not interacted significantly with any clergy. I think at this point I need to talk with a pastor who is well-versed in Protestant theology, and not just in a way to refute Protestant teachings. Said another way, I’d like to talk with a Catholic pastor who understands my perspective as a “cradle Presbyterian” and why that makes some Catholic doctrine hard to accept. I say that not as a criticism of Catholic clergy - very few Protestant clergy have anything more than a cursory understanding of Catholicism. I haven’t attended seminary, but it seems most Protestant seminaries only teach Catholic doctrine so that they can train their seminarians in ways to refute Catholicism. That, or the pastors just don’t give it much thought. Either way, it is hard to find a Protestant pastor who can really interact with Catholic doctrine beyond sort of throwing out the standard, borderline cliche objections. I assume many Catholic clergy are the same way: they have a superficial understanding of Protestant theology, but may not be able to interact with my concerns on a deeper level. Reading former Protestants like Tim Staples and Scott Hahn (haven’t read Rome Sweet Home yet) is helpful for sure, but there is no substitute for personal interaction.

For example - and I don’t want to derail the thread with this specific issue - I have concerns with the dogma of transubstantiation. On the one hand most Protestant churches (with the exception of Anglicans and Episcopalians) have a borderline blasphemous view of the Sacraments - most Catholics would be appalled at the way the Baptism and Communion are treated in most Protestant churches, even the good ones. They are viewed as mere signs and symbols, with total irreverence in their practice in most cases. The Catholic high view of the Sacraments (not to mention the correct Sacraments that the Protestants don’t recognize at all) is correct and proper - there is a efficacious and supernatural reality of the Sacraments, and Catholics duly recognize this, while Protestants generally do not. On the other hand, I’m not convinced transubstantiation is correct. Catholics are closer to the truth than Protestants, but are they totally correct? At this point I would say no.

Again, I don’t want to discuss transubstantiation at this point, but just use it as an example to explain where I am: Catholicism is more correct, but not totally correct. Hence the topic of the post. Thanks for the answers so far - definitely very helpful!

You are welcome. I am glad you found it helpful.

Having participated in the ecumenical dialogue over many years – not however with the Presbyterians – I understand perfectly why a discussion with a priest familiar with your confession and its theological tradition would be of great importance and help to you. And I hope you are able to find such a priest in your area.

It is for the best that you do not wish to have a discussion about your specific concerns in a public forum as I don’t think you would find the multitude of answers you would receive from people of profoundly varying backgrounds to be at all helpful or useful.

Essentially, you are dealing with two elements that are parallel but certainly not coterminous: sacramental theology as it concerns the theology of the Eucharist on the one hand and transubstantiation related to Scholasticism on the other. Having a discussion with a priest about the specific concerns you have in a way that he can address them would be, I think you will find, most helpful to you in resolving the issues.

 

[Adonia]

I grew up in a Protestant (Presbyterian) home, but over the years have developed a admiration and appreciation for Catholicism, and am considering joining the Church. I am very well-read on Catholic and Reformed Protestant theology, and believe there is really very little true difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. Many distinctions, but few differences.

Anyway, in the areas where there are true differences, I believe in some areas the Catholics have it right and the Protestants are wrong, while in other areas the Protestants have it right and the Catholics are wrong. So my question is, while certainly submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church (Presbyterians have the exact same requirement), do I have to agree with every jot and tittle of the Catechism? Can I agree largely with Church doctrine and submit to her authority without agreeing on every point? Or does it depend on the local parish?

Thanks in advance…

Accept it all as a little child and then move on with trying to live a life of holiness. One does not have to get deep into every aspect of Catholic doctrine and as time goes on you will come to understand everything more fully. Have faith that what the Catholic Church teaches is true and you will be on the right track.

 

[Adonia]

I’m in the same position right now. Well on my way to Catholicism, but still have a couple of issues I need to work out. To me, the most important issues are the dogmas. These are true Catholic non-negotiables. Then there are doctrines and theological opinions.

I can tell you that in this forum, there are a number of people who will tell you to accept it all without question or stay out of the church entirely. There are others with a slightly more open perspective.

Like you, I am still undecided. I can’t imagine going back to Protestantism, but I’m still working on a few issues with Catholicism.

I have heard converts say that there might be one or two things that gave them trouble, but they figured if the Catholic Church was basically right on the other 98%, then the Church is most probably right on the 2% they were having trouble with.

 

[thistle]

I have heard converts say that there might be one or two things that gave them trouble, but they figured if the Catholic Church was basically right on the other 98%, then the Church is most probably right on the 2% they were having trouble with.

I was a Methodist when I married my Catholic wife. I attended Mass every Sunday with her but of course did not receive Communion. She spent 10 years praying for me daily to convert and one morning I sat up in bed suddenly knowing that the Catholic Church was the true Church. Not only did I not understand Church teachings but I didn’t even know what the Church taught. However, suddenly being aware the Church was the true one I knew that whatever it taught must be right.
That same morning I went to find out what I had to do to become Catholic and got enrolled in RCIA. I became a Catholic in 1992 and have never doubted a single Church teaching. Once I learned what the Church taught, I dug deeper into any I did not understand until I understood.

 

[Usige]

However, suddenly being aware the Church was the true one I knew that whatever it taught must be right.
That same morning I went to find out what I had to do to become Catholic and got enrolled in RCIA. I became a Catholic … and have never doubted a single Church teaching. Once I learned what the Church taught, I dug deeper into any I did not understand until I understood.

(sorry for the slice job on your quote)

The above is exactly what happened to me. I litterally went to bed one night after arguing about Mass with my wife, to asking about RCIA the next morning. That is why I always say it was a super natural gift of Faith. Ever since I came to the knowledge of the Truth proclaimed through the Church I have always approached any newly discovered teaching with the belief that any fault in understanding is on my part.

 

[jlhargus]

Thanks for the response! So, it’s not enough simply to submit to the authority of the Church on a particular belief, I have to intellectually agree with it as well?

When I became Catholic I didn’t understand purgatory, communion of saints and had some doubts. Yet I was convinced the Catholic Church was the one and only Church Christ was building. I submitted to that authority as to Christ. It took a few years and much study to understand and defend those things I didn’t understand before.

 

[thistle]

(sorry for the slice job on your quote)

The above is exactly what happened to me. I litterally went to bed one night after arguing about Mass with my wife, to asking about RCIA the next morning. That is why I always say it was a super natural gift of Faith. Ever since I came to the knowledge of the Truth proclaimed through the Church I have always approached any newly discovered teaching with the belief that any fault in understanding is on my part.

 

[SanctusMarcus]

I grew up in a Protestant (Presbyterian) home, but over the years have developed a admiration and appreciation for Catholicism, and am considering joining the Church. I am very well-read on Catholic and Reformed Protestant theology, and believe there is really very little true difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. Many distinctions, but few differences.

Anyway, in the areas where there are true differences, I believe in some areas the Catholics have it right and the Protestants are wrong, while in other areas the Protestants have it right and the Catholics are wrong. So my question is, while certainly submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church (Presbyterians have the exact same requirement), do I have to agree with every jot and tittle of the Catechism? Can I agree largely with Church doctrine and submit to her authority without agreeing on every point? Or does it depend on the local parish?

Thanks in advance…

The short answer is yes. To be a true Catholic, you must embrace and profess every article of Faith. God commands our complete obedience to His Teaching and trust in His Divine Mercy.

The way it is meant to work is that the Supreme Pontiff is to confirm the Church in all things concerning matters on Faith and Morals. This is a direct command of Christ Himself:

Luke 22:32: But I have prayed for thee (Peter), that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren (the Clergy).

It is the Pope’s duty to teach what has always been taught, to expound on the Deposit of Faith left by Christ to His Church, to reprove, correct and instruct. Neither the Pope, nor anyone else, has the authority to introduce novel teachings. Hence we know that if the Pope introduces anything contrary to what has been taught always and everywhere, we are to reject it as a novel of man, rather than a Revelation of God.

Everything we are to believe in comes from the Sacred Scriptures, as recorded in the 73 Books of the Canon (not 66 as Protestants have), and also from Sacred Tradition, which contains those teachings not recorded in the Gospels, but which nevertheless the Apostles handed down. We know what these teachings are from diverse sources:

1. The writings of the Church Fathers.
2. The Ecumenical Councils and the Popes.
3. The Acts of the Martyrs, which often record what Teaching the Martyrs died for.
4. The Professions of Faith.
5. Early inscriptions and paintings.
6. The practises and customs of the of the Universal Church, especially the Sacred Liturgy.

There is a saying in the Church, taken from St. Augustine - “lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi” - the law of prayer, is the law of faith, which is the law of life. That is, Catholics don’t pray according to what we believe, but we believe according to how we pray. The Mass is the oldest liturgy in the Church, it, for centuries, was what taught the Faithful what to believe in. It may seem strange to a Protestant, but that is the way it is.

As Catholics we know that what is important for man’s salvation is revealed by God to His Church, through the person of our Holy Father the Pope, His Bishops and Priests. God commands complete obedience to His Teaching, but also, we must intellectually assent to His Teaching with mind, heart and soul. It is also the duty of every Catholic to learn his Faith - to not do so is breaking the First Commandment, for he refuses to give glory to God by what he comes to know about Him by studying and by what God reveals to man. Nothing the Church teaches is wrong, but it may seem that way to non-Catholics. And as Ven. Fulton Sheen said, no one hates the Catholic Church, they only hate what they* think* is the Church.

I hope this helps you. Please feel free to ask questions.

God bless you in coming home, as we Catholics say.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I don’t know if this will help … but the reason I haven’t yet converted is precisely because I can’t fully assent to all the Catholic Church’s teachings. And that’s because I’m hovering on the verge, but still outside, the certainty that the Catholic Church is what she claims to be.

But I’ll say this: IF I convert, it’ll be because I’ll have decided that the Catholic Church is, indeed, what she claims to be. And if so, that belief carries certain necessary implications. One of them is that–again, IF the Church is what she claims to be–then the Church has the divine authority to teach infallibly about certain matters. If I’ve decided, on some grounds or another, that the Catholic Church is what it claims, then what it teaches in those areas must necessarily be true.

Now, that doesn’t mean that I’m automatically going to intellectually follow all the Church’s arguments for its teaching. In fact, it doesn’t even mean I have to like what the Church teaches. What it does mean is that, in areas where the Church is empowered to speak authoritatively, I have to assume that where our takes differ radically, I’m wrong and the Church is right (even if I currently can’t puzzle out exactly how).

If I become convinced on some independent grounds that the Catholic Church is exactly what it claims, it won’t automatically make me a sincere fan of stuff like some of its Marian doctrines, birth control, etc. But it does mean that, even if I can’t believe in the most heartfelt sense of that word, I can assent. I can say that the Church has the authority–the charism, if you will–to be correct about such issues. I can obey, I can refrain from undercutting the Church where those issues are concerned, and I can hope that with prayer and with God’s grace, I may someday fully understand and come to treasure the teachings that my intellect and moral instincts have yet to grasp for the moment.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I grew up in a Protestant (Presbyterian) home, but over the years have developed a admiration and appreciation for Catholicism, and am considering joining the Church. I am very well-read on Catholic and Reformed Protestant theology, and believe there is really very little true difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. Many distinctions, but few differences.

Anyway, in the areas where there are true differences, I believe in some areas the Catholics have it right and the Protestants are wrong, while in other areas the Protestants have it right and the Catholics are wrong. So my question is, while certainly submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church (Presbyterians have the exact same requirement), do I have to agree with every jot and tittle of the Catechism? Can I agree largely with Church doctrine and submit to her authority without agreeing on every point? Or does it depend on the local parish?

Thanks in advance…

Do you believe everything that the Nicene Creed teaches, and do you believe the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church” to be fully found in the church in union with Rome, the see of the Apostle Peter?

If so, then come on in!

Becoming Catholic means believing the church to authentically teach Christian truth. You don’t have to have it all figured out. No one does! Day by day, we grow in faith - including intellectually. More and more things make sense and new connections are made. You do not have to be a theologian to enter the church.

Naturally, you cannot come in rebelling. Becoming Catholic means accepting the church’s teaching authority, even if you have honest intellectual disagreements or uncertainties. It is okay to have intellectual doubts. But when you become Catholic, you are admitting that the truth is bigger than any one person.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and do you believe the Catholic Church is the original church founded by Christ to share the Gospel and salvation to all the world? If so, that is where you begin.

 

[Peter_J]

Now, that doesn’t mean that I’m automatically going to intellectually follow all the Church’s arguments for its teaching. In fact, it doesn’t even mean I have to like what the Church teaches. What it does mean is that, in areas where the Church is empowered to speak authoritatively, I have to assume that where our takes differ radically, I’m wrong and the Church is right (even if I currently can’t puzzle out exactly how).

I’m not knocking that – I’m sure that it works for many – but personally the way I see it is: it’s a given that what the Church says is right, but the question is What *does the Church say? Or, in more concrete terms, is the Catholic Church the Church? Or is the Orthodox Church the Church? Or is the Oriental Orthodox Church the Church? And so on.

• Not much discussed here, but it does exist.

 

[Peter_J]

That’s not quite true–technically, anyway.
I have a friend who converted to Catholicism a few years ago who definitely did not and does not believe in all of the Church’s teachings.
No one asked him if he did before he went through the “conversion” ceremony/baptism.

Admittedly I’m speaking as someone who has never converted from one church to another (RC from infancy) but frankly this doesn’t really make sense to me (I’m speaking generally, as I don’t know the particulars of your friend’s case).

Likewise it wouldn’t make sense for me to say e.g. “I believe Catholic teachings are correct and Lutheran teachings are erroneous, but I’m going to leave Catholicism for Lutheranism.”

 

[fisherman_carl]

I grew up in a Protestant (Presbyterian) home, but over the years have developed a admiration and appreciation for Catholicism, and am considering joining the Church. I am very well-read on Catholic and Reformed Protestant theology, and believe there is really very little true difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. Many distinctions, but few differences.

Anyway, in the areas where there are true differences, I believe in some areas the Catholics have it right and the Protestants are wrong, while in other areas the Protestants have it right and the Catholics are wrong. So my question is, while certainly submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church (Presbyterians have the exact same requirement), do I have to agree with every jot and tittle of the Catechism? Can I agree largely with Church doctrine and submit to her authority without agreeing on every point? Or does it depend on the local parish?

Thanks in advance…

Contrary to what may have been suggested there is no one watching over you to see that your personal beliefs line up. And, becoming Catholic, whatever that means, is a life long process. While, in order to be received into the Catholic Church you may have to choose to accept a doctrine of faith that you are not entirely certain about, you would indeed still be Catholic. In addition there are differences of opinion on non essential but important issues within Catholicism. We are not the borg.

The advantage of having a set of infallible doctrines set by a church that has Apostolic Succession is it provides for a firmer foundation than trying to figure out things on your own. But that doesn’t make it easy. There are things i still restle with.

Contrary to what some imply you can not be forced to believe something. No one for instance can force me to believe the moon is made out of green cheese. If you are open to and seeking the truth in all things then you should be ok. That’s all that anyone should ask of you, is to be open to truth. If you could prove that any of the doctrines of the Catholic Church are wrong then it would be good to not join it. However, if you find out they are true and you resist them then that would be on your conscience.

 

[Peter_J]

Right, it makes no sense to me, either.

Glad you say that – I rather thought my remark would offend you, to a greater or lesser extent.

Basically I’m inclined to see this as a case of hidden assumption: namely, the assumption that if an “already Catholic” (AC) disagrees with such-and-such teaching and isn’t Inquisitioned out of the church, then such-and-such teaching must be optional.