How Christian are Americans in practice?

[kalt]

"Show that 1 in 10 American households experience hunger and 13 million American children go to bed hungry every night. It’s not just the starving Africans who need help. Americans are suffering too. So, before people go spouting mantras of starving people around the world and how Americans are dumb, fat and lazy, they should look at alternative statistics as well.

I welcome kalt’s thoughts."

And that’s my point. Isn’t it more Christian to send that extra food (or the money that would buy it) to the families that need it than to eat until you’re obese?

I understand that some people have psychological problems. Some people take meds that pack on the pounds.

But like I said in another post, this is about gluttony. If you’re not being gluttonous…

I’ve said that already, and in response to the poster you quoted.

I understand that gluttony is a sin that few want to hear about. They take the discussion personally. They feel attacked.

Maybe I should bring this up on Oprah, where people are more willing to listen. The Oprahfication factor. If Oprah says it…

 

[kalt]

“So should I feel differently? Should my compassion level change because of my weight? That doesn’t seem right to me. I am still the same compassionate person I was last year before my weight gain. Should I feel guilt? I think it is a reasonable reaction to loss of mobility and death of 2 babies in a year. Does that make me a bad or uncaring person?”

There’s a difference when somone is eating a normal amount of food, and when one is being gluttonous.

When someone is eating so much that they are obese (espeically) and they’re ruining their own health besides, it’s a different thing to watch others starving. Or it should be. Maybe it’s not to some. Sad.

 

[kalt]

From the CDC site -

Obesity and overweight are a result of an imbalance between food consumed and physical activity. National data have shown an increase in the calorie consumption of adults and no change in physical activity patterns. But obesity is a complex issue related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. Many underlying factors have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise. Obese adults are at increased risk of type II diabetes, hypertension, stroke, certain cancers, and other conditions. Overweight adolescents often become obese adults.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

The US is predominantly Christian. The report did break it down by race (and other things), but I decided to make this a people issue, not an issue of which sub-group is more overweight.

Boy, oh boy. It doesn’t matter what kind of issue you wanted to make it. You are using flawed data (which I still haven’t seen by the way) and built a mantra that is not supported by the data you have shown us.

I understand that Americans just don’t want to hear this (unless it’s on Oprah ), but the facts are what they are. 2/3 of Americans are overweight. Almost 1/3 are obese.

And I understand that you don’t want to hear that your premise is wrong and you have no idea on how to do research on a topic and come to a logical conclusion. But, you haven’t shown any data that shows WHY 2/3rds of Americans are overweight and 1/3rd are obese. Your “idea” is that Americans are gluttons and that’s what is causing the the obesity. You haven’t proven that. You just keep repeating the same flawed stats.

Americans should be alarmed by this!

Not as alarmed as you should be over your lack of research on the topic at hand.

Are you comparing what Americans do to other people? Shouldn’t we be using a higher standard? Jesus?

My goodness. Well, yeah. That’s been YOUR entire point, kalt. Americans, that is Christian Americans are gluttons. I’ve asked repeatedly about any research you have done. You haven’t shown any. Instead you are trying to lead down a rabbit trail. The higher standard here should be the research that helps you form your conclusion about these fat Americans and why they are fat.

Again, 2/3 of Americans are fat. You don’t seem to want to accept that fact. Check the CDC site if you don’t believe the stat.
I didn’t say that Americans are lazy. Why did you assume that?
Most Americans are Christian.

Same mantra. I can accept the fact that those stats are accurate. I don’t have a problem with those stats. I have a problem with your CONCLUSION based on those stats - that is that Americans are fat gluttons. Gluttony=excess eating.

You haven’t been able yet to link gluttony, Americans and obesity yet. There are various reasons why Americans are overweight. You’ve done no research at WHY they are overweight. You just state the same mantra over and over that it’s because they are gluttons. Proof please.

Again, you refuse to believe that most Americans are Christian, and that most Americans are fat.

This is like a Laurel and Hardy episode of “who’s on second base”. I don’t accept that most Americans are Christian. I have no data that shows that. Do you? 2/3 are overweight, 1/3 obese. In percentage terms that is 66% and 33%. That’s not most. But that is a lot of people.

I didn’t say that all of the overweight people are Christians. I wonder how many of the overweight people are professed Christians. Certainly some of them are. (For evidence, look around your church.) And so my question is about the Christians who are overweight. Gluttony is a sin. It seems that people refuse to beleive that, too, though it’s in the CCC.

It doesn’t matter how many are professed Christians, kalt. The point is WHY are they fat? Is it because of gluttony, something else or a variety of reasons? You just don’t get it. I’ve said a couple of times that gluttony is a sin. Yes it is. And you insulted a billion Catholics by saying that many or most of them didn’t even know that.

Do you believe that every overweight person was always overweight? My question was to those who were once thin and are now overweight. I asked how they feel when seeing news stories about starving people. I didn’t say that they are “non-givers”. Why do you assume that?

You are avoiding the issue. I’ve repeatedly asked for data and you continue to side-step it.

I never said that these people don’t give to charities. Those of you who have a problem with talking about America’s problem with obesity, and accepting that gluttony is a sin, are making that up because this topic bothers you.

I really wanted to say something nasty after I read this last paragraph, but that wouldn’t be CHRISTIAN of me, would it? You assume a lot of things my friend. I’m not bothered at all about this topic. What bothers the heck out of me is your refusal to provide data and also your mischaracterization of the American people and Christians.

The data is very clear. Most Americans are Christian. Most Americans are overweight. Gluttony is a sin.

No, that’s my point. You’ve shown that 2/3 are overweight and 1/3 are obese. And from that data you claim that Americans must be gluttons. My point is that you don’t know that. You have no idea of the reasons behind those stats - a point that you just can’t seem to wrap your mind around.

Why do you have a problem accepting that data?

I accept the data. It’s factual. What is NOT factual is your representation of the data. You think that data means that Americans and Christians are gluttons and therefore sinners. I challenge you to provide any data - ANY data to support that position.

I didn’t say that Americans aren’t generous. My question is about overeating and what we could do better. Eat less and give more.

You can say eat less and give more. That’s fine and a good principle to live by. That’s a lot different than labeling Christian Americans as gluttons.

Peace?

Yes, peace. This is about facts, not about personal evaluations of people. I’m attacking your assertions and data, not you as a person.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

"Show that 1 in 10 American households experience hunger and 13 million American children go to bed hungry every night. It’s not just the starving Africans who need help. Americans are suffering too. So, before people go spouting mantras of starving people around the world and how Americans are dumb, fat and lazy, they should look at alternative statistics as well.

I welcome kalt’s thoughts."

kalt:

And that’s my point. Isn’t it more Christian to send that extra food (or the money that would buy it) to the families that need it than to eat until you’re obese?

How do you know they don’t? 1 out of 10, kalt. That’s 10 %. So, either the 90% of Americans who are doing well and are Christians are doing the right thing or we are just blessed. I know we are blessed and I also know of MANY Catholic and Protestant charities that work not only in the US, but across the world to make a difference. I’ve been having problems feeding my own family for about a month because I’ve been giving it to a family that needs it worse than I do. What else do you want me to do?

I understand that some people have psychological problems. Some people take meds that pack on the pounds.

Okay, good.

But like I said in another post, this is about gluttony. If you’re not being gluttonous…

I want to pull my hair out (if I had any, that is). I know it’s about gluttony. And you STILL haven’t shown that American Christians are gluttons and therefore remain fat. Prove it, kalt. Prove it.

I’ve said that already, and in response to the poster you quoted.

I understand that gluttony is a sin that few want to hear about. They take the discussion personally. They feel attacked.

I don’t take it personally. I’m not offended by talk of gluttony. I’m offended at your mischaracterization of Americans and Christians.

Maybe I should bring this up on Oprah, where people are more willing to listen. The Oprahfication factor. If Oprah says it…

:ehh: I don’t know who you have it in for - Oprah, fat people, Christians or Americans. Maybe all of the above.

I never watch Oprah, but I would pay good money to see you on Oprah discuss this topic - very good money.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

From the CDC site -

Obesity and overweight are a result of an imbalance between food consumed and physical activity. National data have shown an increase in the calorie consumption of adults and no change in physical activity patterns. But obesity is a complex issue related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. Many underlying factors have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise. Obese adults are at increased risk of type II diabetes, hypertension, stroke, certain cancers, and other conditions. Overweight adolescents often become obese adults.

Good, at least you are providing something. Now we have to interpret what we read, don’t we? It says as plain as day, kalt, that it is

"*a complex issue *related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. *Many underlying factors *have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise.

It’s complex. It’s related to lifestyle, environment and genes. It includes increased portion sizes (gluttonous), eating out more often (not gluttonous), sugar-sweetened drinks (not gluttonous), a sedentary lifestyle (not gluttonous), and a host of other things. You’ve disproved your own point. Increased portion sizes is only 1 gluttonous factor out of I counted 9 ‘not gluttonous’ factors. That’s approximately 11% according to my calculations.

So, 89% of Americans are overweight and obese for non-gluttonous reasons. Do you want to re-think your position? And we still don’t know how many of those are Christians. Keep the information coming. It keeps getting better and better.

Peace…

MW

 

[BlestOne]

Kalt… I think what MW and others such as I are really complaining about is that you aren’t considering a few things here:

1. 
   *]Americans eat high carb and high fat foods mostly because we are in a hurry all the time and they are readily available (and cheap).
   *]Alot of people are like me… overweight because we are experiencing emotional issues and society says we can’t show it so we stuff it inside and it becomes a problem with comfort eating… then after we hit that overweight status… we look back and see what happened
   *]Americans as a whole are very generous and it isn’t about eating so much there is a food shortage… we do send money, we do send food… by the ship load… and it gets stolen by governments or warlords and we can’t do a thing about it.
   *]Americans overeating or not does not really affect worldwide hunger… there is plenty of food to go around… we are more than willing to share… but it is hard to get it to the people who need it most.
   *]As a mother… I see a whole generation of kids that are overweight because they just plain don’t get enough exercise… nothing to do with gluttony at all… maybe sloth but not gluttony… but more than likely, it is a learned behavior because my generation of parents have not forced the kids to exercise. I have a step daughter that was obese. She has thinned out but it was not only a high carb/fat diet, but not being allowed to play outdoors and lack of exercise. She was raised on video games, VCR tapes and all the modern conveniences that make us lazy.

 

[kalt]

Boy, oh boy. It doesn’t matter what kind of issue you wanted to make it. You are using flawed data (which I still haven’t seen by the way) and built a mantra that is not supported by the data you have shown us.

And I understand that you don’t want to hear that your premise is wrong and you have no idea on how to do research on a topic and come to a logical conclusion. But, you haven’t shown any data that shows WHY 2/3rds of Americans are overweight and 1/3rd are obese. Your “idea” is that Americans are gluttons and that’s what is causing the the obesity. You haven’t proven that. You just keep repeating the same flawed stats.

Not as alarmed as you should be over your lack of research on the topic at hand.

My goodness. Well, yeah. That’s been YOUR entire point, kalt. Americans, that is Christian Americans are gluttons. I’ve asked repeatedly about any research you have done. You haven’t shown any. Instead you are trying to lead down a rabbit trail. The higher standard here should be the research that helps you form your conclusion about these fat Americans and why they are fat.

Same mantra. I can accept the fact that those stats are accurate. I don’t have a problem with those stats. I have a problem with your CONCLUSION based on those stats - that is that Americans are fat gluttons. Gluttony=excess eating.

How do you think most people gain weight?

You haven’t been able yet to link gluttony, Americans and obesity yet. There are various reasons why Americans are overweight. You’ve done no research at WHY they are overweight. You just state the same mantra over and over that it’s because they are gluttons. Proof please.

I have read the stats (and I provided the info). People here seem to think that having an injury, a desk job, or liking fast food is why people are overweight. They aren’t making the connection that people eat too many calories. The bottom line is the calories eaten. If you don’t need as many to maintain a healthy weight, don’t eat as many. None of us can eat like we did when we were teenagers

This is like a Laurel and Hardy episode of “who’s on second base”. I don’t accept that most Americans are Christian. I have no data that shows that. Do you? 2/3 are overweight, 1/3 obese. In percentage terms that is 66% and 33%. That’s not most. But that is a lot of people.

Yes. Approximately 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. Honestly, I wonder why you don’t know these things. That the Us is predominantly Christians is a well-establish, well-known fact. Just listening to the politcal talk would clue someone in on the religious make-up of the country. But I haven’t read your profile. maybe you’re not American?

66% isn’t most?

Even 51% would be most.

It doesn’t matter how many are professed Christians, kalt. The point is WHY are they fat? Is it because of gluttony, something else or a variety of reasons? You just don’t get it. I’ve said a couple of times that gluttony is a sin. Yes it is. And you insulted a billion Catholics by saying that many or most of them didn’t even know that.

I questioned that they know it’s a sin. They don’t seem to think that overeating is gluttony. I provided an entry from the Catholic Encyclopedia that explains what gluttony is.

My question was about how well Christians are living their faith when they overeat instead of giving that food (or the money) to people who need it. Others side-stepped the question by saying that overweight people give to charity.

You are avoiding the issue. I’ve repeatedly asked for data and you continue to side-step it.

I’ve provided the info. You refuse to accept it as fact.You also seem to be missing some basic cultural knowledge. That you believe that 66%, the percentage of Americans who are overweight and obese, isn’t most, leaves me feeling that further discussion with you on this topic is useless. We’re not operating with the same cultural knowledge or understanding of numbers. And you refuse to accept the data for what it is. So…

I really wanted to say something nasty after I read this last paragraph, but that wouldn’t be CHRISTIAN of me, would it? You assume a lot of things my friend. I’m not bothered at all about this topic. What bothers the heck out of me is your refusal to provide data and also your mischaracterization of the American people and Christians.

I have provided the data. You don’t understand it. 66% isn’t most?

We will have to agree to disagree. You don’t know and can’t accept that America is mostly Christian or that 66% is more than half and so is most.

So please get off your high horse here. You’re operating with a deficit in common knowledge and you accuse me of not educating you?

No, that’s my point. You’ve shown that 2/3 are overweight and 1/3 are obese. And from that data you claim that Americans must be gluttons. My point is that you don’t know that. You have no idea of the reasons behind those stats - a point that you just can’t seem to wrap your mind around.

You apparently don’t understand nutrition either.

I accept the data. It’s factual. What is NOT factual is your representation of the data. You think that data means that Americans and Christians are gluttons and therefore sinners. I challenge you to provide any data - ANY data to support that position.

I have. You either haven’t read it, or refuse (still) to beleive it.

BTW, you didn’t read the stats correctly. No surprise. 2/3 of the country is overweight and obese, meaning that 2/3 of people are overweight and some of them are obese. Almost 1/3 of Americans are obese.

You can say eat less and give more. That’s fine and a good principle to live by. That’s a lot different than labeling Christian Americans as gluttons.

Yes, peace. This is about facts, not about personal evaluations of people. I’m attacking your assertions and data, not you as a person.

Peace…

MW

From the CDC

"Obesity and overweight are a result of an imbalance between food consumed and physical activity. National data have shown an increase in the calorie consumption of adults and no change in physical activity patterns. But obesity is a complex issue related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. Many underlying factors have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise. Obese adults are at increased risk of type II diabetes, hypertension, stroke, certain cancers, and other conditions. Overweight adolescents often become obese adults.

It’s true that having a desk job means you don’t need as many calories as you would if you worked a physical job. So eat less.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It’s not off topic. But you have such a flawed understanding of the data that you can’t see how ridiculous your claims are.

kalt:

I didn’t say “off topic”, I said off limits.

Yes, I can see how that makes a difference
Mystic Warrior:

And what does that have to do with anything? You haven’t provided any information that shows Americans spend their money unwisely on food and selfishly.

Mystic Warrior:

Gluttony is wrong. The question is: How do you KNOW (since you don’t have the data to support it) that all Americans who are overweight are gluttonous consumers? It’s about facts, not about stepping on toes.

kalt:

Did I say that all overweight people are gluttonous> That’s something that you assume, because this topic bothers you. I clearly said in two previous posts that if someone is overweight but is not overeating, that is not gluttony.

Here’s some of the things you have said (and I quote):

kalt:

Would Jesus be satisfied that Americans give only what is left over after we’ve eaten so much that 66% of us are overweight, and diabetes and heart disease are rampant?

post#11

kalt:

I’m not too sure how many Catholics even know that gluttony is a sin.

post#13

kalt:

The connection between Americans’ overeatting and starving children is obvious

post#25

kalt:

It seems that no one here, despite the info I provided, believes that it’s a sin.

post#26

You have grossly mischaracterized Christians, Americans, Catholics and overweight people. And even the “evidence” you have provided by the CDC disproves your points.

Post#25 states your position clearly - that is, that Americans are overreating and as a result, children are starving. I debunked that ridiculous claim by showing that only 11% of people (by my calculations) were gluttons and overeat. Not to mention the fact that we don’t know how many of those 11% are Christians!
MysticWarrior:

And I ask you to share the data that supports your assertions.

kalt:

Check the CDC for the stats on the weight problem in the US. And check the CCC for info on gluttony. (I provided that info and more in previous posts, btw)

I checked it and I’m so glad I did. It shows that your bias is at an astounding high level and that your assertions are completely unfounded. Thanks for providing that information.

Now, try again.

Peace…

MW

 

[kalt]

Yes, I can see how that makes a difference

Here’s some of the things you have said (and I quote):

post#11

post#13

post#25

post#26

You have grossly mischaracterized Christians, Americans, Catholics and overweight people. And even the “evidence” you have provided by the CDC disproves your points.

Post#25 states your position clearly - that is, that Americans are overreating and as a result, children are starving. I debunked that ridiculous claim by showing that only 11% of people (by my calculations) were gluttons and overeat. Not to mention the fact that we don’t know how many of those 11% are Christians!

I checked it and I’m so glad I did. It shows that your bias is at an astounding high level and that your assertions are completely unfounded. Thanks for providing that information.

Now, try again.

Peace…

MW

You haven’t shown how the CDC stats contradict the CDC stats I provided.

Americans are overeating. If you can’t accept that, I don’t know why. It’s been in the news. It’s on the CDC site. That fact is everywhere.

There are some people who don’t eat an amount of food that would be considered excessive, and yet they gain weight. Some medications pack pounds on, for example.

I’ve read posts here about how people gain weight because they work a desk job, or work a lot of hours. They could eat less. They could eat food that isn’t as high-calorie.

But that’s not the point I was making. I brought up the question of how well Christians are living their faith when they eat too much, and wouldn’t American Christians be living more in line with their Christian principles if they gave the food or the money to people who need it.

People have gone off on a tangent, claiming that overweight people don’t overeat. Or if they do overeat, it’s for good reasons. Or whatever.

That’s just avoiding the question.

Would Christians who overeat be living their lives more in line with their Christian principles if they ate less and gave to food or money to those who need it?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

You haven’t shown how the CDC stats contradict the CDC stats I provided.

They are the same stats, Kalt. They are the same exact stats. And using those facts that you provided, I showed that 11% of people in America who are overweight are overweight because of over-eating. That’s the facts, Kalt. You’ve provided no rebuttal for my summary of those stats, so I’m assuming you agree with me.

Americans are overeating. If you can’t accept that, I don’t know why. It’s been in the news. It’s on the CDC site. That fact is everywhere.

Your perceptions don’t fit the reality of the facts that you provided from the CDC site. Why you can’t get that I don’t know. It’s pretty clear.

There are some people who don’t eat an amount of food that would be considered excessive, and yet they gain weight. Some medications pack pounds on, for example.

Okay.

I’ve read posts here about how people gain weight because they work a desk job, or work a lot of hours. They could eat less. They could eat food that isn’t as high-calorie.

And you could get the beam out of your own eye before getting the splinter out of your brother’s eye. You’re a Pharisee. A brother, but a Pharisee.

But that’s not the point I was making. I brought up the question of how well Christians are living their faith when they eat too much, and wouldn’t American Christians be living more in line with their Christian principles if they gave the food or the money to people who need it.

Oh my goodness. Are you listening to yourself? You’ve been provided with ample evidence that you are seriously mistaken and you can’t seem to understand basic facts. Shame on me for continuing this ridiculous conversation with you. I can’t reason with someone who doesn’t show any reason.

People have gone off on a tangent, claiming that overweight people don’t overeat. Or if they do overeat, it’s for good reasons. Or whatever.

I’ve shown that 11% over-eat, from your own information. Didn’t you read that? That’s 11%. 11%. a 11%. Maybe if I say it enough it will sink in. 11%.

That’s just avoiding the question.

You are avoiding reason and sticking to your delusions. Good luck with that.

Would Christians who overeat be living their lives more in line with their Christian principles if they ate less and gave to food or money to those who need it?

Keep repeating the mantra, kalt. Keep repeating it. It still won’t make it true and it will only show your Phariseism. You won’t listen to logic and facts, therefore this conversation cannot continue.

I welcome anyone else to try to get through to you Kalt. Lord knows I’ve tried. Next time you want to condemn “fat” people, Christians, and Americans, take a look in the mirror and take your own sins to Jesus for reflection.

My sins are many and I take them to Jesus. Leave people alone with your rules and laws. Apply them to yourself, beat your own breast and confess your sins. And I’ll do the same.

Peace…

MW

 

[geezerbob]

Kalt, a couple of question for you to research in order to gain a little perspective:

How many tons of food did the US send to poor countries last year?

How much money was given to charitable organizations by US citizens last year?

How do you explain the fact that the poorest people in the US have the highest percentage of obesity?

 

[Tietjen]

I welcome anyone else to try to get through to you Kalt. Lord knows I’ve tried. Next time you want to condemn “fat” people, Christians, and Americans, take a look in the mirror and take your own sins to Jesus for reflection.

My sins are many and I take them to Jesus. Leave people alone with your rules and laws. Apply them to yourself, beat your own breast and confess your sins. And I’ll do the same.

Peace…

MW

There is no reasoning with a person who throws insults at an entire nation’s population. I refer to an excerpt from the original post:

kalt:

How does a fat country claim to be Christian while it makes itself still fatter by eating like pigs while watching news reports on TV of starving people?

I would suggest that kalt is simply another America-hater as this isn’t his/her first post criticizing Americans for their prosperity. If, as Mystic Warrior indicates, only 11% of the population is overweight because of gluttony, I have to wonder why all Americans are being lumped together and refered to as “pigs.” If what MW is saying is correct, then 89% of Americans are not actual gluttons. When I went to school, several decades ago, an 89% equaled a B which was considered a good grade. Times change though I guess. I’m going to go and have my second glass of milk now. I’d send it to the people of Hati but I’m afraid it will spill before it got there.