How Christians are perceived

[seeker57]

I travel with my job and, last night at a motel, I was channel surfing. I came across a program on one of those Protestant Christian channels.

Normally, I would have just kept surfing. But, in this case, it caught my attention.

I don’t know what it was called as I joined it already in progress, but it was about a man who toured the U.S. to ascertain how Christians are perceived by mainstream Americans.

Let’s just say the responses were not particularly favorable. People had very glowing things to say about Jesus, but very little good to say about Christians.

“Jesus, save me from your followers,” was one of the more benign statements.

Terms such as hateful, cruel and self righteous were used regarding Christians.

Then the program segued into an entire section on Pope John Paul II. The late pope was described as a shining example of someone who wasn’t just Christian, but who was “Christ like.”

The main reason cited for this was when the John Paul apologized for the past transgressions of the Catholic Church. I believe they said the pope did this in 2000 during a “jubilee?”

Those on this program said Pope John Paul II was a wonderful reflection of Jesus’ love and humility.

The man who did the survey then segued, after a bit, into his setting up a confessional at at a gay pride festival. (I didn’t think confessionals were used outside the Catholic Church:shrug.

The confessional wasn’t for others to confess to the man. The man who created the program used it to confess his sins to those who entered.

What he would tell those who entered was he was sorry he had treated gay people poorly, had been hateful and cruel to them and had judged them on his perception of them rather than as human beings deserving to be treated with dignity.

The responses from those who had walked into the confessional was very positive and, in some cases, quite moving.

One thing that was said during the program is that, perhaps, Christians should change their name, that they should call themselves Christ-like instead. That would remind them to see Jesus in every face and treat others accordingly.

Another point of discussion in the program was that many of those who have very negative views of Christianity were often those who were hurt or damaged by someone calling themselves a Christian.

I was just wondering what others think of these perceptions and ideas, especially since the guy who created it used one of the most popular popes in recent history as his foundation.

Seeker.

 

[ohioszo]

A Christian takes responsibility for his or her actions! The Pope was speaking for the Body of Christ, which is the Catholic Faithful who are alive today in this world. I cannot understand why a Protestant would use a confessional, which would seem to suggest that it is the Catholic Faithful who are guilty of sinning against there fellow man or woman who purport to be homosexual. Making a judgement that homosexuality is against God’s plan is different then hating a person who believes that he or she is homosexual. Catholics, and, I am one, do not hate anyone for any reason due to their failings to live according to God’s plan, in His image and likeness. But, besides the image of the confessional, which, BTW, is not in our newly built churches, a cubicle, but a room … and, the priest is the most important need rather than the venue … confessions may be something done in Protestant churches with by speaking with one’s minister who abides by privacy rules of professional counseling, I suppose.

 

[ohioszo]

A Christian takes responsibility for his or her actions! The Pope was speaking for the Body of Christ, which is the Catholic Faithful who are alive today in this world. I cannot understand why a Protestant would use a confessional, which would seem to suggest that it is the Catholic Faithful who are guilty of sinning against there fellow man or woman who purport to be homosexual. Making a judgement that homosexuality is against God’s plan is different then hating a person who believes that he or she is homosexual. Catholics, and, I am one, do not hate anyone for any reason due to their failings to live according to God’s plan, in His image and likeness. But, besides the image of the confessional, which, BTW, is not in our newly built churches, a cubicle, but a room … and, the priest is the most important need rather than the venue … confessions may be something done in Protestant churches, by speaking with one’s minister, who abides by privacy rules of professional counseling, I suppose.

 

[Being_Brave]

((this posted twice, so I deleted one))

 

[Being_Brave]

One thing that was said during the program is that, perhaps, Christians should change their name, that they should call themselves Christ-like instead. That would remind them to see Jesus in every face and treat others accordingly.

I agree that we should strive to be Christ-like, but I’m afraid if people started calling themselves Christ-like the public image would end up worse than it is now .

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

In my experience people don’t like a moral framework. These days morality is understood to be subjective and anything goes as long as we are ‘nice and loving’ to people. Christianity is thus counter cultural and seen as negative because of its rules. Also, Jesus is seen to be some kind of a hippy who loves all sinners and requires nothing from them. So far from the truth. He came to call sinners to repent and live a life of dignity.
I don’t understnd how JPII is so popular given that he represented the Catholic Church that has a bad rep among the liberals. I think they see him as not being Catholic, but a kind of oddity and exception to what the Catholic church teaches. Ignorance, eh?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Sounds like secularism as opposed to the Christian Religion.

One only needs to read whats in print by JPII and look at what he accomplished as Pope in regards to communism. How one can pass negative judgement on the man I find facinating. One should put there own accomplishments side by side before you judge another. What have “you” done lately for mankind?

When one suggests “those hurt by Christians” how, and to what degree or extent? You mean their feelings were hurt? Think about that. Noboby can hurt your feelings, you allow others to a place a thought in your mind, then “you” respond to it on a feeling level. Well you must ask yourself why do you feel this way? Are you in fact ashamed of your own behavior and actually feel guilt from your own action placed in the light? So what “exactly” is it we are talking about?

As far as Gays, how about this, There is actually a percentage of society who don’t agree with the idea. And they are intitled to there opinion. Maybe we should do a survey on their feeling being hurt by Gays?

 

[johnr55]

To my memory the biggest problem with public perception of Christians was when the whole Falwell thing started back in the 80’s. He and Pat Robertson revived the religious-political ties that had lain dormant since the 30’s (remember Father Coughlin?). I found, as I still do, these groups to be nasty, small-minded, and self-righteous–and, incidentally, certainly tending to be hostile to Roman Catholics.

TV preachers to my eyes will probably have a lot to answer for in the next world. They have sucked needed financial and social support away from our local churches. We’ve seen on this website, the questions re whether we can attend Mass on TV to fulfill our holy obligations! There have always been the gullible when it comes to religion, and there will probably always be those.

Roman Catholics have one real strength, demonstrated daily over all other Western religions: they live better by example. RC’s don’t have to bully people door-to-door, they don’t have to assault people to be ‘saved’. You know what one of the best, and gentlest, ways to get that message out there? The sign of the cross. You’d be amazed, if you haven’t done it, how that can strike up curiosity and/or conversations in fast food places! No, not making some big deal out of it, just a quick prayer with Christ’s sign.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I travel with my job and, last night at a motel, I was channel surfing. I came across a program on one of those Protestant Christian channels.

Normally, I would have just kept surfing. But, in this case, it caught my attention.

I don’t know what it was called as I joined it already in progress, but it was about a man who toured the U.S. to ascertain how Christians are perceived by mainstream Americans.

Let’s just say the responses were not particularly favorable. People had very glowing things to say about Jesus, but very little good to say about Christians.

“Jesus, save me from your followers,” was one of the more benign statements.

Terms such as hateful, cruel and self righteous were used regarding Christians.

Then the program segued into an entire section on Pope John Paul II. The late pope was described as a shining example of someone who wasn’t just Christian, but who was “Christ like.”

The main reason cited for this was when the John Paul apologized for the past transgressions of the Catholic Church. I believe they said the pope did this in 2000 during a “jubilee?”

Those on this program said Pope John Paul II was a wonderful reflection of Jesus’ love and humility.

The man who did the survey then segued, after a bit, into his setting up a confessional at at a gay pride festival. (I didn’t think confessionals were used outside the Catholic Church:shrug.

The confessional wasn’t for others to confess to the man. The man who created the program used it to confess his sins to those who entered.

What he would tell those who entered was he was sorry he had treated gay people poorly, had been hateful and cruel to them and had judged them on his perception of them rather than as human beings deserving to be treated with dignity.

The responses from those who had walked into the confessional was very positive and, in some cases, quite moving.

One thing that was said during the program is that, perhaps, Christians should change their name, that they should call themselves Christ-like instead. That would remind them to see Jesus in every face and treat others accordingly.

Another point of discussion in the program was that many of those who have very negative views of Christianity were often those who were hurt or damaged by someone calling themselves a Christian.

I was just wondering what others think of these perceptions and ideas, especially since the guy who created it used one of the most popular popes in recent history as his foundation.

Seeker.

I watched this movie just a couple of days ago and I really got a lot out of it. Granted, since the guy is an evangelical, he’s going to present things from that point of view, but I think he’s got a good point. So many public figures who make a big deal about their Christianity haven’t been the best ambassadors for the faith. Bl. John Paul II is one who has been an excellent ambassador of Christ.

One of the points he made that really impacted me was that so many Christians today are more interested in being “right” than they are in living the love we are all called to. It’s true. I remember when I was a fundamentalist and would go about witnessing to people about Christ. I had all kinds of zingers ready to “slam the sinner” with my theological weapons. Becoming Catholic has shown me that this isn’t the way because it wasn’t because someone preached it to me but because I saw Catholics modeling Christ in their lives…for real. It was amazing to me that Catholics know Jesus…for real. It didn’t take someone to “slam” me with their theological weapons…it was more a “woman at the well” moment.

In fact, the confessional deal was something like that. The idea came from a college ren-fair where people set up a confessional and confessed in reverse, which opened a dialogue…creating “woman at the well” moments. I don’t think he was compromising the Gospel, as he knows it, in presenting his message. He’s trying to break down the walls so that people would listen to the message.

After all, that dude dressed in that ridiculous nun outfit is a wounded person who has been deeply hurt by a lot of people…what if all it takes to get him to come to the Church is a good Christian who will actually listen to him and model Christ’s love to him in a real, human way. He knows the condemnation, does he know the grace?

 

[kentuckyliz]

I’m not sure that an evangelical mass-marketing survey should be the approach we take to tailoring our beliefs and message and worship. It’s called “seeker oriented” and it’s really “the customer is always right” and hence the church shopping…ad nauseam…until exhaustion…there’s a lot of unchurched Christians out there, even in the Bible belt. They have been scandalized by the sexual sins and financial greed of the pastors and the “holy club” mentality (of churches who practice shunning). It’s the logical endpoint of the Protestant Rebellion.

I did door-to-door evangelization as a Catholic and have seen the fallout first-hand.

My clothes aren’t good enough to go to church. (A conclusion reached by poor people who couldn’t compete with the Sunday morning fashion show, and who had harsh words spoken to them on the matter.)

Those people think they’re so holy, and they’re a bunch of hypocrites. It’s me and Jesus now. I got Jesus and no one can take that away from me.

One woman was “churched” (shunned) when she, with righteous indignation, spoke at a school board meeting insisting on an explanation why her daughter in fourth grade couldn’t read. She wasn’t even given a hearing or opportunity to defend herself to the church. The elders of the church are her relatives. Her entire extended family is in this church and they all shunned her. She is cut off from her family for her appropriate actions insisting on an education for her daughter! She really nailed her case shut after that when she got her hair cut, got contacts, put on makeup, and wore pants. Those things are sins according to the Old Regular Baptists. It just confirmed to them that she’s damned, damned, damned. She says this with a smile on her face, laughing, but I see the hurt in her eyes–she has lost her family!

Twice I ended up doing spiritual counseling this week (in my secular job)! One guy’s faith was damaged when years ago, his cheatin’ wife left him and their son; he was a good Christian all his life, and prayed hard, and had whole prayer chains on it; his wife didn’t repent and come back. He was blamed for not having enough faith. I testified to him about how God has different answers to prayer–and we can’t tell Him what the answer is. I pointed out that he has a beautiful, Christian, trustworthy, loving wife, and a beautiful new daughter, and a successfully blended family where everybody gets along with each other and loves each other. I asked him if how life has worked out was a bigger blessing than what he was asking God for those many years ago–and he said yes, it is! I have a powerful testimony about Divine Providence and how bad news isn’t really bad news, because it leads to bigger and better blessing down the line. Story of my life. I shared it with him in a brief way. He was consoled. But where did he get the idea that he didn’t have enough faith and therefore his prayer failed? From a sola scriptura church that finds those quotes in the Bible, and overlooks how Jesus taught us to pray–the Lord’s Prayer–“Thy will be done!” The Lord’s Prayer is a perfect prayer–it teaches us what to pray for–instead of turning God into Santa.

Another man was kicked out of his house by parents and in distress, one point was, he’s a Christian and his parents are too, and they cuss, and they harangue him, and they kicked him out homeless while he was down. We had a little discussion about OSAS being only the beginning, and that transformation follows conversion, and not everyone knows that, or the process is gradual. He needed permission to honor his parents from a distance while protecting himself from their evil words and deeds–he is not bound to honor their sin. He is holding on to faith, but such uncharitable treatment could tempt a person to have contempt for faith. Apparently his parents have never read Matthew 25.

When you warp the gospel, you get warped results.

There’s a cool song by the Arc Angels with the line: “There’s just one way that you can stand / too many ways, too many ways to fall” - truth is one and error is many.

Let’s just be who we are, live it out in our lives, let that be our preaching. If we get good enough at living out the call to gospel charity, we’ll be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Mother Teresa of Calcutta did. If we lovingly embrace truth and its demands–with joy, we will shine like light and be a radiant presence to the people around us who want what we’ve got. It worked out that way for John Paul II the Great.

 

[seeker57]

I watched this movie just a couple of days ago and I really got a lot out of it. Granted, since the guy is an evangelical, he’s going to present things from that point of view, but I think he’s got a good point. So many public figures who make a big deal about their Christianity haven’t been the best ambassadors for the faith. Bl. John Paul II is one who has been an excellent ambassador of Christ.

One of the points he made that really impacted me was that so many Christians today are more interested in being “right” than they are in living the love we are all called to. It’s true. I remember when I was a fundamentalist and would go about witnessing to people about Christ. I had all kinds of zingers ready to “slam the sinner” with my theological weapons. Becoming Catholic has shown me that this isn’t the way because it wasn’t because someone preached it to me but because I saw Catholics modeling Christ in their lives…for real. It was amazing to me that Catholics know Jesus…for real. It didn’t take someone to “slam” me with their theological weapons…it was more a “woman at the well” moment.

In fact, the confessional deal was something like that. The idea came from a college ren-fair where people set up a confessional and confessed in reverse, which opened a dialogue…creating “woman at the well” moments. I don’t think he was compromising the Gospel, as he knows it, in presenting his message. He’s trying to break down the walls so that people would listen to the message.

After all, that dude dressed in that ridiculous nun outfit is a wounded person who has been deeply hurt by a lot of people…what if all it takes to get him to come to the Church is a good Christian who will actually listen to him and model Christ’s love to him in a real, human way. He knows the condemnation, does he know the grace?

Thank you! You reminded me of portions of the program I had glossed over, unintentionally, but nonetheless.

I got a lot out of the program as well, and I’m not Christian.

I think you really hit on why it had an impact when you said this,

Becoming Catholic has shown me that this isn’t the way because it wasn’t because someone preached it to me but because I saw Catholics modeling Christ in their lives…for real. It was amazing to me that Catholics know Jesus…for real. It didn’t take someone to “slam” me with their theological weapons…it was more a “woman at the well” moment.

Well said.

Seeker.

 

[edwest2]

I travel with my job and, last night at a motel, I was channel surfing. I came across a program on one of those Protestant Christian channels.

Normally, I would have just kept surfing. But, in this case, it caught my attention.

I don’t know what it was called as I joined it already in progress, but it was about a man who toured the U.S. to ascertain how Christians are perceived by mainstream Americans.

Let’s just say the responses were not particularly favorable. People had very glowing things to say about Jesus, but very little good to say about Christians.

“Jesus, save me from your followers,” was one of the more benign statements.

Terms such as hateful, cruel and self righteous were used regarding Christians.

Then the program segued into an entire section on Pope John Paul II. The late pope was described as a shining example of someone who wasn’t just Christian, but who was “Christ like.”

The main reason cited for this was when the John Paul apologized for the past transgressions of the Catholic Church. I believe they said the pope did this in 2000 during a “jubilee?”

Those on this program said Pope John Paul II was a wonderful reflection of Jesus’ love and humility.

The man who did the survey then segued, after a bit, into his setting up a confessional at at a gay pride festival. (I didn’t think confessionals were used outside the Catholic Church:shrug.

The confessional wasn’t for others to confess to the man. The man who created the program used it to confess his sins to those who entered.

What he would tell those who entered was he was sorry he had treated gay people poorly, had been hateful and cruel to them and had judged them on his perception of them rather than as human beings deserving to be treated with dignity.

The responses from those who had walked into the confessional was very positive and, in some cases, quite moving.

One thing that was said during the program is that, perhaps, Christians should change their name, that they should call themselves Christ-like instead. That would remind them to see Jesus in every face and treat others accordingly.

Another point of discussion in the program was that many of those who have very negative views of Christianity were often those who were hurt or damaged by someone calling themselves a Christian.

I was just wondering what others think of these perceptions and ideas, especially since the guy who created it used one of the most popular popes in recent history as his foundation.

Seeker.

This appears not to have been a scholarly or documentary piece but a bit of history combined with theater. I have heard a priest on Catholic Radio say that he did hear confessions outside the confessional.

Anyway, by accusing some Christians of not being charitable to gay people, using himself, he set up a generalization about Christian behavior that reflected his point of view and the comments he received. The Los Angeles Times in one article accused Pope John Paul II of doing negative things regarding the Church, from their point of view of course.

One thing Catholics should be aware of is propaganda. The other thing is that every movement, including the gay rights movement, needs a clear enemy. My reading of LGBT sites shows that the Catholic Church is the biggest obstacle to gay rights.

So, my brothers and sisters in Christ, what do we say to anyone who hears clear Church teaching and says, you’re wrong, or that’s hurtful or you’re prejudiced or you simply don’t understand? We must understand that in most cases, those who do not accept Church teaching have been given plenty of reasons to doubt or reject it. We should know what those reasons are. These can include being treated poorly by someone the other person knows is a Christian.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Hadrianus]

To my memory the biggest problem with public perception of Christians was when the whole Falwell thing started back in the 80’s. He and Pat Robertson revived the religious-political ties that had lain dormant since the 30’s (remember Father Coughlin?). I found, as I still do, these groups to be nasty, small-minded, and self-righteous–and, incidentally, certainly tending to be hostile to Roman Catholics.

TV preachers to my eyes will probably have a lot to answer for in the next world. They have sucked needed financial and social support away from our local churches. We’ve seen on this website, the questions re whether we can attend Mass on TV to fulfill our holy obligations! There have always been the gullible when it comes to religion, and there will probably always be those.

Roman Catholics have one real strength, demonstrated daily over all other Western religions: they live better by example. RC’s don’t have to bully people door-to-door, they don’t have to assault people to be ‘saved’. You know what one of the best, and gentlest, ways to get that message out there? The sign of the cross. You’d be amazed, if you haven’t done it, how that can strike up curiosity and/or conversations in fast food places! No, not making some big deal out of it, just a quick prayer with Christ’s sign.

These are some very good points. My own experience has taught me that Christians are often viewed in an adversarial and negative light, particularly by younger people. The trouble is that the positive message of God’s love and salvation is presented less than the moral law. This is just the reverse of what the Early Christians did. The result is the Christ of the Gospels is hardly known. Unfortunately, all error begets further error and the ultimate consequence of Protestantism is always total unbelief.