How come some Protestants really believe

[ltwin]

Yes–As a long time Evangelical Christian, I’d say you’ve pretty much understood “backslidden” as I’ve heard it explained. Someone who deliberately chooses to live in a state of unrepentant grave sin for a length of time, has turned their back on God until and unless they once again turn around and face Him in repentance.

Being a human can be complicated, though, and painful, and speaking for myself, I don’t consider it any of my business to call someone else “backslidden” unless they themselves state that they’ve purposely, arrogantly, walked away from God. “Don’t Shoot the Wounded.”

I sort of feel the same way. I don’t label people “backslidden.” Though I don’t deny it exists. The way I see it is I need to keep in mind that I could backslide if I do not stay vigilant and keep my eyes on Christ. To me, acknowledging the possibility of backsliding keeps me humble.

 

[andrewstx]

I take great exception to your post. Living in west Texas I can assure you that Protestants were always, ALWAYS trash-talking the Catholic Church in my small town. The Protestant pastors were always saying the most horrible things. I lived this reality for 18 years. So please keep your uninformed comments to yourself.

Exactly. I live in West Texas too. Most locals don’t really think about Catholics or Orthodox at all, most haven’t even heard of Orthodoxy.

But they really dislike each other especially the S Baptists and the church of Christ members. They fight like cats and dogs and are always trying to “steal each others sheep”. They have bad things to say about each other like Baptists calling Methodist “wishy washy”, and putting down Lutherans and Episcopalians for being "just like them Catlics.

But the worst things are said about Catholics who are “just meskin trash”. Worship idols and “pay the Priest to pray there loved ones out of purgatory”.

I was raised in Midland and now live in Andrews.

Apologies if you are Latino, I was just quoting the west Texas majority.

 

[Bergon]

… Church of England (Anglican) Henry V111 …

King Henry VIII was far from perfect; however, what is the point of accusing the man of something he didn’t do.

 

[anruari]

To the “Born Again” Mindset, (stereotypical… not specific) All that matters is that a person have one experience of being “Born Again”, one moment when they make a commitment to turn to Christ. Then they are “Saved” they are then “Predestined” to go to Heaven. No Sacraments are necessary. It does not matter what sins they subsequently commit, as Jesus has Already paid the Price and Forgiven them.
For some it is not possible to backslide… but some will think they were saved when they were not truly saved. - So if someone apostasies, then they were never truly saved to begin with.

A Misconception of Catholic Belief:
It’s all about the “Sacraments”. as long as you are baptised and Go to Mass and Confession that’s all that’s needed… or for some it’s also about Idol worship and “Mary worship” as well.

The True Catholic Position:
Salvation is COMPLICATED. Jesus tells us in the bible that there are many prerequisites:

Have Faith in Him. That means Belief, and faithful following of his teachings. (I am the way the Truth and the Life. No-one comes to the Father Except through Me.)
Good Works: These will not save you, but if they are missing that’s a strong indicator that your faith is incomplete or broken. If you are not doing good works you are sinning by omission or by rejecting His commandment to Love one another.
Be Baptised (Born again by water and by spirit.)
Receive the Eucharist (Eat my Flesh and Drink my blood or you will have no life within you.)
Repent - Turn away from sin and receive the Gospel.

Now… Lets look at the understanding of Personal Conversion: is it required in Catholic understanding? Can you be “Saved” if you recieve the sacraments, but never truly convert to Christ and make Him your Lord (as opposed to dull religious observance)?
The answer is a resounding NO!.
Personal conversion to Christ is an essential part of Faith. an Essential part of Salvation. Religious Observance is not Faith. It is the christian equivalent of the “Works of the Law”. Without Faith they cannot save you. - even though they were given to us by Christ, for our Salvation.

They are essential, christ tells us they are needed, but we make no claim that if someone has Faith, and does not know that they should be recieving the Sacraments, or is unable to, that Jesus would not count that faith unto Him as Righteousness. On the Contrary it may reasonably be assumend that Christ’s Mercy is very likely for such a person.

If you look at the Catechism, and search for the word “Conversion” it occurs 36 times on the page dealing with Repentance and Confession: specifically the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Look here

Without a Personal commitment to the Faith of Jesus Christ religious observance in any religion Catholic or otherwise is dead and empty. It is only by a deliberate, voluntary conversion to Christ that the Sacraments become effective.

However such a conversion: such a commitment is NOT a one time thing like baptism is. It is a daily struggle.
The Opus Dei recommend their members to say a 1 word prayer the moment they wake. They call it the “Heroic Moment”. They say to pray “Servaim!” Latin for “I will Serve”. This is the opposite of the traditional rejection by Lucifer “Non Servaim!” (I will not serve!) which started the heavenly war, and the fall from grace.

So are the “Born Again’s” right when they ask if you have “Been Saved”? Well if they are asking if you have made a personal and meaningful commitment to Jesus, then it’s most certainly the Right question to ask. If they believe that that is a one-time thing they are sadly mistaken.
If they think the sacraments are unnecessary they are sadly mistaken.

The initial conversion, whether it comes after an early or infant baptism… or even after the reception of the Holy Spirit in the Sacrament of Confirmation… that initial decision to fulfill your baptismal promises and live the life of Christ… is an essential decision.
It may precede the entry to the Church as an adult convert. In that situation the RCIA programme is designed to assist the convert to solidify that decision and better understand it.
but it does not end there.
We are attacked every day by the World, and by Satan, and by our own weakness.
We need to repent and return to the Gospel - again and again and again.

I am a Catholic

I put my faith in Jesus.

I struggle to avoid Sin… I fail. I have at times backslid to the point I no longer followed Him… Years Later I slowly returned. I had cut myself off from the Vine - my faith withered. If I died then I would not like to consider my fate. - By re-joining the Church, the Vine - my faith re-grew and became strong again. If I died today I would look Jesus in the eyes, and be burned in His loving refiners fire. - It would be agony but it would be Love… I am truly sorry for all I have done wrong, but it’s effects need to be burned away… like straw and grass and wood, leaving in my soul only the Gold and silver and precious metals that God made.
If I died today I hope and trust that I would accept this loving judgement of Christ and not reject that Love and cast myself or be cast into the Pit.

If I do not die today, I will strive to build with metal that God Gives me, and let Him burn away the straw and grass and wood here in this life. But I am weak and often add more into my life.

I have faith that I am Saved. - Not by my own merit, but because I put my faith in Him. I try to do what He asks.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

When films come up that require Christianity to be shown, its not the Lutheran, Methodist, or any other Protestant denomination they show in films its always the Catholic Church, why is that I wonder, did you ever wonder why they don’t show any of the denominations in films that have to portray the Christian Religion - yes they go back to the Original Mother Church of all, THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

P.S We all try various things in life, nun, priest, vicar, clergyman, minister, but if we feel we are not called we leave and realize its not for them, we don’t make up things about the religion in order to “OPT” out. This is what Luther did, he was a disgruntled Augustinian monk, who found he was not suited for religious life, and made up a whole load of lies to cover his dishonesty and lies, he penned up a whole load of clap trap and pinned it to the Church door, and then he himself ran away with a nun and got married, if sex what his problem why was he not honest with GOD and himself and asked his Superior to leave the Order, as what did St. Paul say it is better to marry than to burn, its amazing when he decided to leave he had a woman on his mind, he clearly had no vocation - Dishonesty with God is a horrible thing. Plus if Luther came back to day would he recognize the Lutheran Church he founded - NO is the answer.

 

[anruari]

…
This is what Luther did, he was a disgruntled Augustinian monk, who found he was not suited for religious life, and made up a whole load of lies to cover his dishonesty and lies, he penned up a whole load of clap trap and pinned it to the Church door, and then he himself ran away with a nun and got married,
…

Of Luthers 95 Theses, the Church accepted 91 of them, and included them in the reforms of the Council of Trent.
The remaining 4 were not direct heresy. he was rebuked for his disrespectful tone and asked to moderate what he had said.
The manner in which he was treated was abysmal, and left him feeling pushed into a corner… He lashed back and ended up being excommunicated.
The situation was then hijacked by political forces seeking to usurp the authority of the church and things snowballed out of control.
Luther himself snowballed out of control and deteriorated into many areas of public immorality and hatred. - But in pinning the 95 Theses to the door of the cathedral, he was mostly making very good points.
If handled better, in a more pastoral style by his direct superiors, history would have progressed very differently.

His later works deviated further and further from the Truth as taught by the Church. but don’t get your history backwards.

 

[anruari]

Lets look at the 95 Theses.
The 95 Theses - a modern translation

1. When Jesus said “repent” he meant that believers should live a whole life repenting
   True
2. Only God can give salvation - not a priest.
   True
3. Inwards penitence must be accompanied with a suitable change in lifestyle.
   True
4. Sin will always remain until we enter Heaven.
   True
5. The pope must act according to canon law.
   True
6. Only God can forgive -the pope can only reassure people that God will do this.
   True
7. A sinner must be humbled in front of his priest before God can forgive him.
   True
8. Canon law applies only to the living not to the dead.
   True
9. However, the Holy Spirit will make exceptions to this when required to do so.
   True
10. The priest must not threaten those dying with the penalty of purgatory.
    True Purgatory is not a threat. it is a blessing.
11. The church through church penalties is producing a ‘human crop of weeds’.
    Im not sure here.
12. In days gone by, church penalties were imposed before release from guilt to show true repentance.
    True
13. When you die all your debts to the church are wiped out and those debts are free from being judged.
    True
14. When someone is dying they might have bad/incorrect thoughts against the church and they will be scared. This fear is enough penalty.
    There’s more here. incorrect thoughts might be deliberately held heresy
15. This fear is so bad that it is enough to cleanse the soul.
    I doubt it. Fear of the Lord may be counted as Rightousness. but only the Blood of Christ will cleanse the Soul. Imperfect Contrition may come from
16. Purgatory = Hell. Heaven = Assurance.
    FALSE!!! Purgartory is NOT hell. it is the cleansing of the saved soul from all remaining attachemnt to the World and attachement to sin. Only that which is Pure may enter heaven. I am not 100% pure. I will need to be cleansed in the Refiners Fire. The bible teaches this clearly. It just does not use the word “Purgatory”
17. Souls in Purgatory need to find love - the more love the less their sin.
    True … But if purgatory was hell there would be no love and no hope.
18. A sinful soul does not have to be always sinful. It can be cleansed.
    True
19. There is no proof that a person is free from sin.
    True
20. Even the pope - who can offer forgiveness - cannot totally forgive sins held within.
    True you cannot be forgiven of a sin which you are not sorry for.
21. An indulgence will not save a man.
    True Indulgences are ways of cleansing yourself here on earth reducing or eliminating the work needed in purgatory.
22. A dead soul cannot be saved by an indulgence.
    True. Purgatory is for the saved not the dammed.
23. Only a very few sinners can be pardoned. These people would have to be perfect.
    FALSE If you are perfect you are by definintion not a sinner. Christ died on the Cross for the sins of all and the salvation of Many. - Many not all because not all will accept this gift.
24. Therefore most people are being deceived by indulgences.
    many people were being deceived by lies or missconceptions about indulgences.
25. The pope’s power over Purgatory is the same as a priest’s.
    False Those who’s sins you retain they are retained. Peter was given the power to bind and loose. He holds the Keys to the Kingdom.
26. When the pope intervenes to save an individual, he does so by the will of God.
    True
27. It is nonsense to teach that a dead soul in Purgatory can be saved by money.
    True
28. Money causes greed - only God can save souls.
    True
29. Do we know if the souls in Purgatory want to be saved ?
    Of course we do. If they are in Purgatory they are saved. they are being cleaned because they want to be.

 

[anruari]

1. No-one is sure of the reality of his own penitence - no-one can be sure of receiving complete forgiveness.
   False. The price has been paid. Jesus has paid it.
2. A man who truly buys an indulgence (ie believes it is to be what it is) is as rare as someone who truly repents all sin ie very rare.
   True
3. People who believe that indulgences will let them live in salvation will always be damned - along with those who teach it.
   True
4. Do not believe those who say that a papal indulgence is a wonderful gift which allows salvation.
   True It does not grant salvation. It helps towards it. It is usefull for brining yourself closer to God.
5. Indulgences only offer Man something which has been agreed to by Man.
   True I think. But Peter was given the Authority on earth.
6. We should not teach that those who aim to buy salvation do not need to be contrite.
   True Of course this is true.
7. A man can be free of sin if he sincerely repents - an indulgence is not needed.
   True
8. Any Christian - dead or alive - can gain the benefit and love of Christ without an indulgence.
   True
9. Do not despise the pope’s forgiveness but his forgiveness is not the most important.
   True
10. The most educated theologians cannot preach about indulgences and real repentance at the same time.
    False
11. A true repenter will be sorry for his sins and happily pay for them. Indulgences trivialise this issue.
    False But they may… nay were being used to trivialise the issue at the time. This was an error.
12. If a pardon is given it should be given cautiously in case people think it’s more important than doing good works.
    True
13. Christians should be taught that the buying of indulgences does not compare with being forgiven by Christ.
    True
14. A Christian who gives to the poor or lends to those in need is doing better in God’s eyes than one who buys ‘forgiveness’.
    True
15. This is because of loving others, love grows and you become a better person. A person buying an indulgence does not become a better person.
    True
16. A person who passes by a beggar but buys an indulgence will gain the anger and disappointment of God.
    True
17. A Christian should buy what is necessary for life not waste money on an indulgence.
    True
18. Christians should be taught that they do not need an indulgence.
    True But that does not mean that the spiritual exercise of seeking an indulgence is worthless - it is not.
19. The pope should have more desire for devout prayer than for ready money.
    True
20. Christians should be taught not to rely on an indulgence. They should never lose their fear of God through them.
    True Very True.
21. If a pope knew how much people were being charged for an indulgence - he would prefer to demolish St. Peter’s.
    True… probably
22. The pope should give his own money to replace that which is taken from pardoners.
    I dont know how much personal money the pope had. He was trying to raise the funds to build a bassilica He would not have had sufficient.
23. It is vain to rely on an indulgence to forgive your sins.
    True
24. Those who forbid the word of God to be preached and who preach pardons as a norm are enemies of both the pope and Christ.
    True
25. It is blasphemy that the word of God is preached less than that of indulgences.
    True
26. The pope should enforce that the gospel - a very great matter - must be celebrated more than indulgences.
    True
27. The treasure of the church is not sufficiently known about among the followers of Christ.
    True
28. The treasure of the Church are temporal (of this life).
    True- but not completely so… The Church is one in Heaven and on Earth.
29. Relics are not the relics of Christ, although they may seem to be. They are, in fact, evil in concept.
    There is no necessity to put your faith in any relic. there is little or no evidence that most or many 1st century relics have any validity.
30. St. Laurence misinterpreted this as the poor gave money to the church for relics and forgiveness.
    I Dont know

 

[anruari]

1. Salvation can be sought for through the church as it has been granted this by Christ.
   True
2. It is clear that the power of the church is adequate, by itself, for the forgiveness of sins.
   True
3. The main treasure of the church should be the Gospels and the grace of God.
   True
4. Indulgences make the most evil seem unjustly good.
   True— in the way they were miss-used at the time. - but false when correctly applied.
5. Therefore evil seems good without penance or forgiveness.
   True
6. The treasured items in the Gospels are the nets used by the workers.
   ??? if he’s speaking metaphorically then True
7. Indulgences are used to net an income for the wealthy.
   True at the time. This was wrong.
8. It is wrong that merchants praise indulgences.
   True
9. They are the furthest from the grace of God and the piety and love of the cross.
   True
10. Bishops are duty bound to sell indulgences and support them as part of their job.
    This may have been true at the time. it should not have been so. I don’t personally know the truth.
11. But bishops are under a much greater obligation to prevent men preaching their own dreams.
    True
12. People who deny the pardons of the Apostles will be cursed.
    True
13. Blessed are they who think about being forgiven.
    True
14. The pope is angered at those who claim that pardons are meaningless.
    True
15. He will be even more angry with those who use indulgences to criticise holy love.
    True
16. It is wrong to think that papal pardons have the power to absolve all sin.
    True Repentance is a pre-requisite to forgivness.
17. You should feel guilt after being pardoned. A papal pardon cannot remove guilt.
    False Christ’s sacrifice removes the guilt. Once repented and forgiven the true guilt is washed away… YOu should be contrite… not harbour Shame.
18. Not even St. Peter could remove guilt.
    Interpretation… translation… To me: Forgive Sin = Remove Guilt. But Contrition is still needed.
19. Even so, St. Peter and the pope possess great gifts of grace.
    True
20. It is blasphemy to say that the insignia of the cross is of equal value with the cross of Christ.
    True
21. Bishops who authorise such preaching will have to answer for it.
    True
22. Pardoners make the intelligent appear disrespectful because of the pope’s position.
    True
23. Why doesn’t the pope clean feet for holy love not for money ?
    I dont know what he’s refering to this mat be a good question, but it’s phrased dissrespctfully.
24. Indulgences bought for the dead should be re-paid by the pope.
    False
25. Evil men must not buy their salvation when a poor man, who is a friend of God, cannot.
    True
26. Why are indulgences still bought from the church ?
    valid question You cannot buy Gods graces with money. the Church should not have let her clerics teach that you can.
27. The pope should re-build St. Peter’s with his own money.
    Get Real.
28. Why does the pope forgive those who serve against him ?
    What??? Probably dissrespectfull.
29. What good would be done to the church if the pope was to forgive hundreds of people each day ?
    ???
30. Why are indulgences only issued when the pope sees fit to issue them ?
    Because that’s his perogative… but there were less shouted about indulgences attached to reading the Holy Scriptures and many other devotions.
31. To suppress the above is to expose the church for what it is and to make true Christians unhappy.
    Many Many good points above.
32. If the pope had worked as he should (and by example) all the problems stated above would not have existed.
    True
33. All those who say there is no problem must go. Problems must be tackled.
    True
34. Those in the church who claim there is no problem must go.
    False. The church is a hospital for sinners they must be re-educated.
35. Christians must follow Christ at all cost.
    True
36. Let Christians experience problems if they must - and overcome them - rather than live a false life based on present {misunderstandings about} Catholic teaching.
    True See my addition in {}

 

[anruari]

OK so I see 9 to which I wrote : FALSE… but I’m not a theologan.
I believe the Magisterium took explicit exception to fewer than that.

I’d willingly retract my red entries on the 3rd section… They are more grey areas.

 

[Miriam1947]

See how Catholics proclaim we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By enduring to the end…Matt.24:13

Thanks PRMerger

 

[JonNC]

****QUOTE]=Celtic Maiden;11041049]When films come up that require Christianity to be shown, its not the Lutheran, Methodist, or any other Protestant denomination they show in films its always the Catholic Church, why is that I wonder, did you ever wonder why they don’t show any of the denominations in films that have to portray the Christian Religion - yes they go back to the Original Mother Church of all, THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

Oh, they show others- quite frequently.

to PattiM: what follows is the opposite side of the “coin” you experienced in your youth.

P.S We all try various things in life, nun, priest, vicar, clergyman, minister, but if we feel we are not called we leave and realize its not for them, we don’t make up things about the religion in order to “OPT” out. This is what Luther did, he was a disgruntled Augustinian monk, who found he was not suited for religious life,

If you are going to make these kinds of charges, it is important, if you expect to be taken seriously, to offer links to sources. You are aware, I take it, that Luther remained in religious life all of his life as a priest, teacher, theologian, and translator.

and made up a whole load of lies to cover his dishonesty and lies, he penned up a whole load of clap trap and pinned it to the Church door, and then he himself ran away with a nun and got married, if sex what his problem why was he not honest with GOD and himself and asked his Superior to leave the Order, as what did St. Paul say it is better to marry than to burn, its amazing when he decided to leave he had a woman on his mind, he clearly had no vocation - Dishonesty with God is a horrible thing.

Again, these are serious charges, opinions which are not even held within Catholic theological circles that I’m aware of. Certainly, Pope Benedict didn’t think this about Luther.
I expect you have sources, say, from Luther’s own hand, that reveal this to be his thinking.

Plus if Luther came back to day would he recognize the Lutheran Church he founded - NO is the answer.

I definitely have concerns about this, particularly in the more liberal synods, but also in the more confessional ones such as the LCMS.

This is well off topic, but if you wish to start a thread, I will be there to participate.

Jon

 

[4Squarebaby]

I have found that in my life their are quite a number of Evangelicals that really are not aware of Orthodoxy’s existence.

I grew up in a place where the huge majority was fundamentalists and Orthodox were never spoken off.

It was not until I was a sophomore in college that I even saw an Orthodox church and that was in a town that had an Air Force base with a lot of greeks. In this part of the US Orthodox churches are small and about 150 miles apart and Eastern Catholic churches non existent.

Perhaps Orthodox are seen as any other mainline church is because there is no public knowledge of the Orthodox saying that I should submit to the authority of their Patriarch.

 

[cshoremom]

See how Catholics proclaim we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By enduring to the end…Matt.24:13

Thanks PRMerger

Thanks for this…

 

[Miriam1947]

Thanks for this…

You’re welcome but, actually thanks go to PRmerger for first posting this. I stole it with her permission.

 

[ltwin]

You say this is “stereotypical . . . specific.” Well for me, basically none of this applies.

To the “Born Again” Mindset, (stereotypical… not specific) All that matters is that a person have one experience of being “Born Again”, one moment when they make a commitment to turn to Christ.

Absolutely not. This may be the “mindset” of some “born agains”, but its not a mindset that anyone one in my church would take seriously. What we and many others would think is that there is a moment of “justification” when we are declared righteous before God on the basis of having faith in Christ. Yet, there is still process to this whole thing. We must become like Jesus through ongoing sanctification. The way we look at it, becoming born again is the start. But it doesn’t matter how you start the race; the important fact is how you finish the race.

Then they are “Saved” they are then “Predestined” to go to Heaven.

Hmm. Many born again Christians come from free will backgrounds, not Calvinist ones. So, this definitely does not apply to all “born again” Christians.

No Sacraments are necessary.

True.

It does not matter what sins they subsequently commit, as Jesus has Already paid the Price and Forgiven them.

How can post-conversion sin “not matter?” We have to confess and ask God for forgiveness before he can grant it. And for forgiveness to be granted, there must be authentic repentance.

For some it is not possible to backslide… but some will think they were saved when they were not truly saved. - So if someone apostasies, then they were never truly saved to begin with.

Yes, some believe this. Others believe it is definitely possible to lose one’s salvation if they lose faith in Christ (the basis of our justification) or they continue in prolong sin. “Carelessness can lead to apathy, apathy to neglect, and neglect to a conscious decision to sin.” If this condition continues, an individual places himself in great spiritual danger.

 

[JonNC]

Of Luthers 95 Theses, the Church accepted 91 of them, and included them in the reforms of the Council of Trent.
The remaining 4 were not direct heresy. he was rebuked for his disrespectful tone and asked to moderate what he had said.
The manner in which he was treated was abysmal, and left him feeling pushed into a corner… He lashed back and ended up being excommunicated.
The situation was then hijacked by political forces seeking to usurp the authority of the church and things snowballed out of control.
Luther himself snowballed out of control and deteriorated into many areas of public immorality and hatred. - But in pinning the 95 Theses to the door of the cathedral, he was mostly making very good points.
If handled better, in a more pastoral style by his direct superiors, history would have progressed very differently.

His later works deviated further and further from the Truth as taught by the Church. but don’t get your history backwards.

I cannot neglect to mention my appreciation of you and your efforts here. Thank you.

Jon

 

[fallow_spirit]

that Catholics won’t be in heaven because they aren’t “saved”…
Seriously, do they really believe that?

And why are Christian kids really “so much better” because they can recite Bible verses? ( got this little “dig” from my own DH’s aunt last night…)

I KNOW better than to believe this … I do not believe this at all…
But it still hurts…

Because they do. A lot of Protestants (usually the more fundamentalist types) truly believe that the Catholic Churches preaches a false gospel of works and worshiping statues. A lot of them would even go as far as saying that the Catholic Church is a satanic evil cult. It’s sad but we should definitely pray for these people.

Oh, you mean like in AWANA? Yeah, I used to go to those and honestly I don’t feel like I really retained the verses I was memorizing too well. When I memorized them I really didn’t pay much attention to what they were saying, I just did it so I could the gem in the little plastic crown they use for SPARKS.

 

[forever47]

I have been told that teaching Bible verses to kids starting at a very young age is not so much that they will know, understand and follow them at the time they memorize the verses (Although, wouldn’t that be nice? ) But, to teach them the verses at a time when memorization is easiest to do. Then, the verses are there as they grow up, mature and can understand and apply them, using them for the rest of their lives.

The same situation happens with the multiplication tables and I’ve never heard anyone having a problem with that!

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

King Henry VIII was far from perfect; however, what is the point of accusing the man of something he didn’t do.

Next joke, one only has to open a Book on the Life of Henry, to see
I. He was an Adulterer, so much so he died from VD (Syphilis) and his coffin exploded open at his funeral all well documented.
2. Watch Television programmes even by the BBC (very English and the Protestant establishment) when they have had programmes on about Henry V111 had a load of women while married, had a sex problem, in fact the BBC have just finished an excellent serial about him but even they don’t lie he died of VD, yet he was able to tell everyone else BE MORAL, a case of do as I say, but not as I do, and he this leech set himself up as the Head of the Church in England (a great model ha ha.)