How concerned should I be about "little" white lies?

[Schieffelin]

Hello CAF! I’m hoping some of you here will have experience with this issue I’m about to explain so you can give me advice (and prayers please!). Let me start by saying my husband is a wonderful man with many wonderful characteristics and we love each other deeply. We’ve had our share of ups and downs due to very strong personalities and I think we are still adjusting to how to be married to one another (married 2 yrs now).

There is something that is really bothering me though and I’m wondering what others think of it. My husband has a habit of telling “white” lies about “little” things when he thinks I will react badly to the truth about something. For example, a couple of months ago we both decided to go to individual counselors for some issues we’d been having. We decided it would be more helpful to go to individual counselors for awhile before starting back into marital counseling. Anyway, DH fell off schedule with his counseling due to some traveling last month and he still hasn’t gone back. Not only has he not gone back he’s been LYING to me with various excuses about why he hasn’t been “able” to go back yet.

Finally when I caught him red-handed he admitted the truth and just said “you know I don’t want to go to counseling anyway. I don’t even need it. Everything is fine.” First of all, it’s crazy that he thinks he’s done with counseling after only three sessions. Secondly, I mentioned to him that the very fact that he feels it necessary to lie to me about things like this is a sign that we’re nowhere near resolving our issues.

Anyway, this is just an example of the kind of lies he tells. I was kind of shocked he did this last night because we’ve had it out about his “little” lies before and I thought he finally “got it” that this was destroying the very foundation of trust in our marriage and that I would always find out the truth anyways and be ten times madder than if he had just told the truth in the first place. And 99% of the time I can tell he’s lying immediately and I call him out on it, so it’s dumb that he even tries in the first place.

Anyway, how concerned should I be about his knee-jerk habit of lying to me when he thinks I won’t want to hear the truth? I’ve promised him before that I will work on not overreacting to things so that he can feel more safe telling me the truth. But in the end I am just starting to totally lose respect for him because I think honesty says so much about your character. I usually despise dishonest people. I mean how can anyone ever resolve anything if we’re not being honest with each other? But because he’s my husband I’m trying hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. Thoughts?

 

[1ke]

These are not “white lies”, they are just plain lies. And they are a symptom of whatever your larger marital issues are. There are larger communication issues at play here, and it is really disturbing that you are both in counseling and you reference going “back” to marital counseling-- you have only been married 2 years!

His continual lieing to you is a symptom of something else-- control, defense, something.

Talk to your counselor about it.

 

[Lorelei12]

I think that it’s pretty common for a man to either not tell the whole truth, or withhold certain details from his wife if she has a history if overreacting or responding poorly to things she doesn’t want to hear. (I am guilty of this. ) I am not saying that either is an okay thing to do, but it’s not that unusual. Hopefully as you make a habit of responding more appropriately, he will feel more comfortable telling you things you might not want to hear. I am working on this too, and it’s a slow process but I think it is helping.

It is good that he finally admitted to you that he does not want to go to counseling. I don’t think you can force someone (or guilt them) into going to counseling if they truly don’t want to, whether they need it or not. You may have to continue working on things yourself for awhile. I am not sure of your reasons for not going to marital counseling, but maybe it would be better to suggest that, if the issues you are having are primarily about your relationship. Can you do both? If he doesn’t want to go himself, that’s okay, but would it be better if you went on your own and went as a couple as well?

As for how concerned you should be…well, I think it’s a pretty common problem, but a problem nonetheless. On one hand, you should be able to have an emotional response to something without him freaking out. Men tend to take any kind of emotional reaction personally, even if it’s not directed at them, and prefer to avoid it. On the other, perhaps working on taming your responses so they are more in proportion to the situation will make him feel safer about telling you things. The good thing is that you already recognize there is something you can do to help the situation, so I think you’re a step ahead.

 

[Schieffelin]

These are not “white lies”, they are just plain lies. And they are a symptom of whatever your larger marital issues are. There are larger communication issues at play here, and it is really disturbing that you are both in counseling and you reference going “back” to marital counseling-- you have only been married 2 years!

His continual lieing to you is a symptom of something else-- control, defense, something.

Talk to your counselor about it.

Yes, I know they are just plain lies, that’s why I kept putting “little” and “white” into quotation marks. Thank you for pointing out that it’s disturbing that we’re in counseling even though we’ve only been married two years. It’s quite a painful thing to not meet the definition of happy newlyweds and I really appreciate people rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

[Schieffelin]

I think that it’s pretty common for a man to either not tell the whole truth, or withhold certain details from his wife if she has a history if overreacting or responding poorly to things she doesn’t want to hear. (I am guilty of this. ) I am not saying that either is an okay thing to do, but it’s not that unusual. Hopefully as you make a habit of responding more appropriately, he will feel more comfortable telling you things you might not want to hear. I am working on this too, and it’s a slow process but I think it is helping.

It is good that he finally admitted to you that he does not want to go to counseling. I don’t think you can force someone (or guilt them) into going to counseling if they truly don’t want to, whether they need it or not. You may have to continue working on things yourself for awhile. I am not sure of your reasons for not going to marital counseling, but maybe it would be better to suggest that, if the issues you are having are primarily about your relationship. Can you do both? If he doesn’t want to go himself, that’s okay, but would it be better if you went on your own and went as a couple as well?

As for how concerned you should be…well, I think it’s a pretty common problem, but a problem nonetheless. On one hand, you should be able to have an emotional response to something without him freaking out. Men tend to take any kind of emotional reaction personally, even if it’s not directed at them, and prefer to avoid it. On the other, perhaps working on taming your responses so they are more in proportion to the situation will make him feel safer about telling you things. The good thing is that you already recognize there is something you can do to help the situation, so I think you’re a step ahead.

Thanks, Lorelei, for your thoughtful response. I tend to agree with everything you’ve said. I am feeling quite depressed though at the realization that I’ve married someone who doesn’t highly value honesty and also does not want to really get help. I’m starting to think he only ever agreed to counseling in the first place because he feels pressure from me to do it. If you’re right that it does not good for him to go if he’s only doing it because of pressure, then where does that leave me? Just give up on the fact that he probably won’t ever change and just keep going to counseling myself so I can cope with it?

 

[EasterJoy]

Remember, too, that telling the truth is easier when done in a safe place.

People who are afraid of punishment sometimes lie. They shouldn’t, but they do. That doesn’t excuse your husband, but it does give you something to look at that is actually in your control: Is it safe for him to tell you the truth, or is it hazardous? Learning how to respond firmly to hard truths instead of reacting harshly, for instance, is a very good habit to develop before your children get old enough to follow Dad’s lead. If you have difficulty with this, addressing this problem on your side of the fence will help your marriage tremendously. (Erasing “I told you so” from your list of idioms is another good habit.)

 

[Schieffelin]

Remember, too, that telling the truth is easier when done in a safe place.

People who are afraid of punishment sometimes lie. They shouldn’t, but they do. That doesn’t excuse your husband, but it does give you something to look at that is actually in your control: Is it safe for him to tell you the truth, or is it hazardous? Learning how to respond firmly to hard truths instead of reacting harshly, for instance, is a very good habit to develop before your children get old enough to follow Dad’s lead. If you have difficulty with this, addressing this problem on your side of the fence will help your marriage tremendously. (Erasing “I told you so” from your list of idioms is another good habit.)

I agree with you. I really have a lot of work to do in that area, and I intend to do it.
It is more difficult when I’ve lost a great deal of respect for him as a result of these lies though. I really don’t like the feeling of not respecting my husband’s character.

I supposed I will just keep working on my own character in the meantime and offer it up to God.

 

[mountee]

Lying is a behavior that is hard to figure out sometimes, but not an O.K.behavior. As I read your post it seemed to me that because of how he thought you might react he lied. In that case, if that we’re true, I would look first to myself, I am talking about myself here and how I personally approach issues such as this. I would think as honestly as possible about how I react to things I don’t like. Is it possible that I react so badly that my husband lies to avoid my reactions? It doesn’t make the lies O.K. but I need to work on my end also so that I will encourage honesty not dishonesty as a avoidance tactic. Of course, it could be that he lies because he wants to do things in a different way and doesn’t want to talk about it. Trust in a marriage is critical to intimacy. If you can’t trust each other you will be very unhappy down the road. I will pray for you and your husband. God bess you.

 

[Lorelei12]

Thanks, Lorelei, for your thoughtful response. I tend to agree with everything you’ve said. I am feeling quite depressed though at the realization that I’ve married someone who doesn’t highly value honesty and also does not want to really get help. I’m starting to think he only ever agreed to counseling in the first place because he feels pressure from me to do it. If you’re right that it does not good for him to go if he’s only doing it because of pressure, then where does that leave me? Just give up on the fact that he probably won’t ever change and just keep going to counseling myself so I can cope with it?

Luckily, I think this behavior is one of those things that really is something that, when one partner gets the ball rolling, the other follows suit. It’s not like that with many situations, but I think it’s pretty clear that the reason he lies is because he is scared of how you’ll respond. Sometimes maybe he’s justified in fearing a negative response, if you’ve reacted badly in the past, and sometimes he isn’t, because after all you have a right to be upset about things. It’s probably hard for him to tell the difference though, since he likely takes all emotional responses personally.

As for the counseling, perhaps he did agree to it only to make you happy. I do think it’s good to go yourself, and ask if he might consider marital counseling again. He sounds like the kind of man who really is concerned with your happiness, so you can ask him to understand that you don’t think everything is “fine”, and that you won’t make him go but that it would mean a lot to you if he did. If the pressure is off, and you don’t push it, he might want to go because it’s important to you. He might feel better if he doesn’t have to think of excuses not to go, and can safely say “no, I don’t want to”. I understand that if he decides not to, it will be hard not to think that it means he doesn’t care. But you know how much he loves you, and this will be a process, and one that you have a lot of influence over. I really do think that once he starts to feel better about telling you things, he will begin being more honest about what he thinks.

 

[Schieffelin]

Luckily, I think this behavior is one of those things that really is something that, when one partner gets the ball rolling, the other follows suit. It’s not like that with many situations, but I think it’s pretty clear that the reason he lies is because he is scared of how you’ll respond. Sometimes maybe he’s justified in fearing a negative response, if you’ve reacted badly in the past, and sometimes he isn’t, because after all you have a right to be upset about things. It’s probably hard for him to tell the difference though, since he likely takes all emotional responses personally.

As for the counseling, perhaps he did agree to it only to make you happy. I do think it’s good to go yourself, and ask if he might consider marital counseling again. He sounds like the kind of man who really is concerned with your happiness, so you can ask him to understand that you don’t think everything is “fine”, and that you won’t make him go but that it would mean a lot to you if he did. If the pressure is off, and you don’t push it, he might want to go because it’s important to you. He might feel better if he doesn’t have to think of excuses not to go, and can safely say “no, I don’t want to”. I understand that if he decides not to, it will be hard not to think that it means he doesn’t care. But you know how much he loves you, and this will be a process, and one that you have a lot of influence over. I really do think that once he starts to feel better about telling you things, he will begin being more honest about what he thinks.

Thanks. I hope you are right. I should have mentioned before that I’ve noticed him “fudging” the truth in other situations as well–a job interview for example or a dispute over a bill. So clearly the honest problem extends beyond just me. That’s what really bothers me–that he thinks dishonesty is OK to get to a desired end.

Anyway, it still holds true that I have to work on my reaction to things. When he first agreed to counseling I think he really did do it just because it was important to me (not because he felt nagged into it, but because he could see it was important). The problem is that motivation doesn’t seem to last. I think he has to really want to change himself for his own good. That’s why when he first started it, everything seemed to be going fine, but a month later his motivation is gone. It was the same thing when we were in marital counseling together. Maybe I should just drop the subject of counseling altogether.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Instead of trying to judge and control other people, you should be working on something that you can control, which is your own behavior. Why does your husband feel that he needs to lie to you? Because of your negative reactions.

Accept the fact that you are never going to be able to force other adults into submission to your will and that it is morally offensive to try to do so.

 

[Schieffelin]

Instead of trying to judge and control other people, you should be working on something that you can control, which is your own behavior. Why does your husband feel that he needs to lie to you? Because of your negative reactions.

Accept the fact that you are never going to be able to force other adults into submission to your will and that it is morally offensive to try to do so.

Why is wanting honesty from my husband trying to control him? I’m not trying to control him. I just don’t want him to lie. I would rather know the truth so that we can work out our issues together rather than finding out the hard way later.

 

[Cristiano]

I keep spending a lot of time teaching my son that if someone lies about small things then you do not have a reason to trust him with bug things. I have been telling him this for all his life and now that he is sixteen I know that he does not lie even with very uncomfortable things. I keep teaching him that because a man should be known by his integrity. being know for my integrity has really helped me at critical times in my professional life. My wife on the other side has the habit of telling white lies to avoid unnecessary discomfort, that bothers me, she keeps doing it and I can live with that. However, recently she had to deal with a family member that is known for being untrustworthy on small things and she had to decide if to trust him with something big or not. Because of that now she is going to be uncomfortable with her decision whether she is going to trust the individual or not, and so finally she realized why I am so rigid about lies. Your husband needs help and it looks like counseling is necessary, do not nag but do not drop the subject either.

 

[Cristiano]

Instead of trying to judge and control other people, you should be working on something that you can control, which is your own behavior. Why does your husband feel that he needs to lie to you? Because of your negative reactions.

Accept the fact that you are never going to be able to force other adults into submission to your will and that it is morally offensive to try to do so.

Is expecting honesty from someone that is your own flesh a control thing? It is morally offensive to expect that? I have the impression that you need to rethink your idea of marriage and morality in general. The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a few interesting paragraphs about lies.

 

[Schieffelin]

I keep spending a lot of time teaching my son that if someone lies about small things then you do not have a reason to trust him with bug things. I have been telling him this for all his life and now that he is sixteen I know that he does not lie even with very uncomfortable things. I keep teaching him that because a man should be known by his integrity. being know for my integrity has really helped me at critical times in my professional life. My wife on the other side has the habit of telling white lies to avoid unnecessary discomfort, that bothers me, she keeps doing it and I can live with that. However, recently she had to deal with a family member that is known for being untrustworthy on small things and she had to decide if to trust him with something big or not. Because of that now she is going to be uncomfortable with her decision whether she is going to trust the individual or not, and so finally she realized why I am so rigid about lies. Your husband needs help and it looks like counseling is necessary, do not nag but do not drop the subject either.

Thank you for sharing your experience, Christiano. It’s good to know you’ve been able to teach your son this virtue despite his mother not always being an example of it. That’s one of the things I worry about. When we have kids I hope they won’t take after their dad’s example in this regard. I hope that your wife’s learning experience will stick with her and that she’ll value honesty more highly now.

I know he really needs counseling but honestly I’m very tired of having the discussion over and over. I feel all I can do now is pray that someday he’ll take responsibility for it himself.

 

[Cristiano]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Christiano. It’s good to know you’ve been able to teach your son this virtue despite his mother not always being an example of it. That’s one of the things I worry about. When we have kids I hope they won’t take after their dad’s example in this regard. I hope that your wife’s learning experience will stick with her and that she’ll value honesty more highly now.

I know he really needs counseling but honestly I’m very tired of having the discussion over and over. I feel all I can do now is pray that someday he’ll take responsibility for it himself.

Just to make sure I know that my wife limits herself to little white lies, she values honesty a lot and she does not see white lies as lies but as social convenience. My son understands that it is an accepted social convenience and that he should not allow himself to use.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Why is wanting honesty from my husband trying to control him? I’m not trying to control him. I just don’t want him to lie. I would rather know the truth so that we can work out our issues together rather than finding out the hard way later.

""My husband has a habit of telling “white” lies about “little” things when he thinks I will react badly to the truth about something.

“I caught him red-handed”

“it’s crazy that he thinks he’s done with counseling”

“I was kind of shocked he did this last night”

“We have had it out about his “little” lies before”

“I thought he finally “got it” that this was destroying the very foundation of trust in our marriage”

“I would always find out the truth anyways and be ten times madder than if he had just told the truth in the first place.”

“99% of the time I can tell he’s lying immediately and I call him out on it”

“it’s dumb that he even tries in the first place.”

You may not believe this but your husband’s lack of candor is the least of your problems. It is only a symptom. Your writing is full of anger and control issues. Perhaps you might print this page out and show it to your counselor.

Stop the arguing, stop making demands. You are accomplishing nothing except heading towards divorce.

I won’t post on this thread again. This is something that should be discussed with a professional marriage counselor, not on a public bulletin board.

 

[Schieffelin]

You may not believe this but your husband’s lack of candor is the least of your problems. It is only a symptom. Your writing is full of anger and control issues. Perhaps you might print this page out and show it to your counselor.

Stop the arguing, stop making demands. You are accomplishing nothing except heading towards divorce.

I won’t post on this thread again. This is something that should be discussed with a professional marriage counselor, not on a public bulletin board.

Oh goodness. You think it’s not possible to solve such a complex problem over a public forum (fair enough) and yet you think you know me well enough to diagnose me with chronic anger and control problems. Based on one post. Sorry but you have missed the mark.

 

[Cristiano]

You may not believe this but your husband’s lack of candor is the least of your problems. It is only a symptom. Your writing is full of anger and control issues. Perhaps you might print this page out and show it to your counselor.

Stop the arguing, stop making demands. You are accomplishing nothing except heading towards divorce.

I won’t post on this thread again. This is something that should be discussed with a professional marriage counselor, not on a public bulletin board.

Please make sure that you do not project personal issues in this thread. Anger for being lied to is justified, Catholics call it the anger of the righteous. Spouses are supposed to call each other on breaches of trust, being married is being one flesh, a house divided against itself will not stand. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. A real man can should be able to take rebukes from a wife.

 

[papaececi]

I just wanted to post a word of encouragement for you. I could have written this when I had been married for two years and I can’t tell you how much things have changed since then. You shouldn’t feel that it is uncommon at all to have problems so early on in a marriage. Many people feel disillusioned by the lack of a “newlywed” phase.

As for advice on how to make things change. I can only say for us it was the grace of God. Pray (together if you can, alone if you can’t) to St. Joseph, patron of families, and say the rosary and try to get on a schedule of regular confession with a good confessor.