How could God allow the devil so much license?

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God is supposedly all merciful, so how could he allow good catholics to be decieved by the devil. just consider all the protestant sects which have formed throughout the centuries, then theres bayside and numerous other false visons and messages, and then theres the sedevacantists, and finally perhaps the saddset of all: corruption within our own church (yes it does happen).

how could God allow this to happen? these thing are clearly not all the work of prideful humans. the devils work is so evident here. and the confusion is so overwhelming that its becoming extremely difficult for a good lay catholic to discerm himself. its chaos. you have the sedevacantists (rightfully) condemning bayside, but along iwth thier condemnation of bayside they also bash the current catholic church. they claim that the purpose of bayside was to get more people to worship the “heretical” vatican 2 (as they call it).
then theres all these devotions and novenas which some catholics claim to be good and some catholics claim to evil. even the catholic church is not free from this, theres the funny business about the third secret of fatima, and theres the allegded assasination of John Paul 1.
i mean i know Jesus tests the faithful even, but this is getting ridiculous. it seems to me that he gives the devil a free hand in decieving humans, and then places all the blame on us for falling for it. i dont get it.
 
To contrast the justice of his rule with the anarchy of satan god allows evil for a season. That the consequences of rebellion can be demonstrated not just merely taught. Also it is the consequence of the prime directive of god to enable his creature to have free will. Therefore unless god takes away free will his general policy is non-interventionist.

tektonics.org/gk/godprime.html

Therefore in historical times and modern Miracles are few and far in between. When he does a miracle like healing the sick he does not heal all the sick of the world. And he only saves a few but not all.
 
someperson555 said:
God is supposedly all merciful, so how could he allow good catholics to be decieved by the devil. just consider all the protestant sects which have formed throughout the centuries, then theres bayside and numerous other false visons and messages, and then theres the sedevacantists, and finally perhaps the saddset of all: corruption within our own church (yes it does happen).

how could God allow this to happen? these thing are clearly not all the work of prideful humans. the devils work is so evident here. and the confusion is so overwhelming that its becoming extremely difficult for a good lay catholic to discerm himself. its chaos. you have the sedevacantists (rightfully) condemning bayside, but along iwth thier condemnation of bayside they also bash the current catholic church. they claim that the purpose of bayside was to get more people to worship the “heretical” vatican 2 (as they call it).
then theres all these devotions and novenas which some catholics claim to be good and some catholics claim to evil. even the catholic church is not free from this, theres the funny business about the third secret of fatima, and theres the allegded assasination of John Paul 1.
i mean i know Jesus tests the faithful even, but this is getting ridiculous. it seems to me that he gives the devil a free hand in decieving humans, and then places all the blame on us for falling for it. i dont get it.
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The devil is only as strong as we allow him to be.Grace is stronger than temptation.It’s no wonder you don’t get it,your very idea of God from the outset is flawed.Study your catechism.Firstly,find out what we actually believe,before undermining it.I mean not to take a sharp tone with you,BUT,this is why many have left the Church.

God bless,

JMJ
 
Our God loves us with a complete love. Our God wishes us to love Him with a complete love. To that end, rather than make us creatures without choice or license, He has given us free will. Free will is hard, like all freedoms. It comes with responsibilities, with tests, and with pain. But just as the athlete must undergo pain and effort to obtain victory, each drop of sweat we produce in choosing the right path builds our spiritual character and brings us closer to victory in Christ.
 
Who can ponder the mind of God? You have to figure he had his reasons…perhaps earth is nothing more that a spiritual proving ground.
 
Satan has three things he can do:

1.) Tempt
2.) Accuse
3.) Deceive

Really that’s about it. He doesn’t have arms and legs, or a magic wand. And yet since we humans a) have dominion over the earth, and b) he has infiltrated each of our worldly minds, and c) few ever escape their worldly mindset, Jesus calls Satan “the ruler of the world.” (Jn 12:31, Jn 14:30, Jn 16:11)

If we keep seeking the Truth, (being especially aware that our own knowledge is always incomplete), live according to our beliefs, and don’t accept false blame against ourselves or others, then we will not be an instrument for Satan to use to do his work.

Alan
 
Carolus_Martell said:
Who can ponder the mind of God? You have to figure he had his reasons…perhaps earth is nothing more that a spiritual proving ground.
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Spiritual proving ground is a great way to look at it. As gold is tested in fire, in the world is our faith tested and purified.

I also think of it as an spiritual exercise gym. Instead of looking at evil as something horrible to be anxious and upset over, it gives us opportunity to exercise and purify our faith. Without works our faith is useless, because without works our faith is untested. Work implies there is resistance, and we’re back to the exercise gym paradigm. Without this resistance our faith would atrophy and we would be worse than useless for God; we’d be basically animals with original sin.

Alan
 
the Great Indian Cheif Red Coat, when speaking to Government officials, scoffed the arguement of the white people to their argument to who had the right God… pointing out the argument over who had the right one, God among often chrisitians themselves
The Cheif pointed out, the Indians never argued amoungst themselves who had the right God, but they did recogize, the Great Sprit did exist, to who they recognized.

Faith, Faith in a omnicent God that often sends bad from which good comes to be…

WE have to thank God for those that gossip about us, steal from us, cheat, back bite, fault find us, discieve, and scorn us, for yes, we are wreached and underserving people of the glory of God and all the Good he has already given us. For in our free choice to chose, we have failed to be greatfull and glad for all that God has given us, most directly for God has given us Himself, Life alone…and to recognize, humility is the teacher of wisdom, and for others to do bad to us, teachs us the wisdom of not doing such to others, wisdom that we arent born with, but comes from bad, made good, humility.

What a wicked people that have been given life,from God himself the giver of life, and yet we pray and cry out for more…
 
Its partly because we as human beings chose the Devil over God. God tells us the truth, we know it in our hearts, but then we choose other wise.

As for the corruption and the schism of the church and all the rumors, scandals, etc., even Jesus’ direct followers (disciples) were lousy followers of Him. No disrespect to the Apostles, but after three years of ministry literally at the side of The Christ, knowing that He is the Messiah, seeing miracles and signs and wonders that “the world itself could not contain the books written about them (John 21:25)” , they all fled Him when he was crucified. Thomas refused to believe that Christ was risen from the dead, Peter denied that he knew Christ three times!, I think only John was at the foot of the cross (correct me if i’m wrong), and Judas betrayed Him for practically nothing.

If the perfect sinless Christ had that many problems with His own disciples, how much more so will the CC have problems in 2000 years of history led by sinners! But Christ said “the gates of Hell will not prevail against [the Church] (Matt 16:18)” and we should hold fast to the truths of the Church and seek the truth and not be deceived by the distractions of this world that affect the Church.

There will be problems, but the Church will prevail, because Christ said so:)
 
katholikos12 said:
Its partly because we as human beings chose the Devil over God. God tells us the truth, we know it in our hearts, but then we choose other wise.
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katholikos12 said:
Perfect
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Yes!

When we Catholics obey legitimate authority, we are not deceived. We all need to lovingly correct one another and not be anxious if the person does not want to listen. Some do listen, because a seed has been planted by sincerely spoken and loving words of correction.
 
Dorothy said:
Yes!

When we Catholics obey legitimate authority, we are not deceived. We all need to lovingly correct one another and not be anxious if the person does not want to listen. Some do listen, because a seed has been planted by sincerely spoken and loving words of correction.
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I like the way you worded this … to not be anxious if they don’t want to listen. If it doesn’t cause a direct problem for me or a loved one, then once I mention it, the ball is in their court so I need to let it go.

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I like the way you worded this … to not be anxious if they don’t want to listen. If it doesn’t cause a direct problem for me or a loved one, then once I mention it, the ball is in their court so I need to let it go.

Alan
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Yes, and it takes practice for me to “let it go”. I can will it without feeling it. If I keep doing that, then the Lord will give me His Peace about it.
 
Bravo_6 said:
The devil is only as strong as we allow him to be.Grace is stronger than temptation.It’s no wonder you don’t get it,your very idea of God from the outset is flawed.Study your catechism.Firstly,find out what we actually believe,before undermining it.I mean not to take a sharp tone with you,BUT,this is why many have left the Church.

God bless,

JMJ
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lol i love how no one even took the time to read the post. nearly everyone just read the title and then jumped to conclusions. its funny how people like YOU are the reason why some people leave the church. typical prejudiced mentality. i really cant argue against the atheists when they claim that religious folks are closed minded.
 
someperson555 said:
God is supposedly all merciful, so how could he allow good catholics to be decieved by the devil. just consider all the protestant sects which have formed throughout the centuries, then theres bayside and numerous other false visons and messages, and then theres the sedevacantists, and finally perhaps the saddset of all: corruption within our own church (yes it does happen).

how could God allow this to happen? these thing are clearly not all the work of prideful humans. the devils work is so evident here. and the confusion is so overwhelming that its becoming extremely difficult for a good lay catholic to discerm himself. its chaos. you have the sedevacantists (rightfully) condemning bayside, but along iwth thier condemnation of bayside they also bash the current catholic church. they claim that the purpose of bayside was to get more people to worship the “heretical” vatican 2 (as they call it).
then theres all these devotions and novenas which some catholics claim to be good and some catholics claim to evil. even the catholic church is not free from this, theres the funny business about the third secret of fatima, and theres the allegded assasination of John Paul 1.
i mean i know Jesus tests the faithful even, but this is getting ridiculous. it seems to me that he gives the devil a free hand in decieving humans, and then places all the blame on us for falling for it. i dont get it.
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God allows the confusion to happen as a result of free will choices of members of the Catholic Church.
The devil tempts, but he doesn’t make us do it. We can refuse with our God-given free will. We can freely choose to love and adore the Lord, and disregard trivia that causes confusion…

We don’t have to jump on the bandwagon of confusion and trivia with regard to approved apparitions and the suspicion and curiosity that surrounds them, and the still unapproved apparitions as well.

I need to enter into deeper prayer and make use of the Sacraments to become a holier person. May the Lord help me, and our Our Blessed Mother intercede for me. If we become holier than others can recognize the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ in us, and want the same.
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I like the way you worded this … to not be anxious if they don’t want to listen. If it doesn’t cause a direct problem for me or a loved one, then once I mention it, the ball is in their court so I need to let it go.

Alan
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I am glad I saw this post. I have been trying to encourage and instruct my roommate, who is shall we say Catholic in name only, on the various aspects of Catholic doctrine. I have been so frustrated. For every time I get her to go to Mass, the devil seems to pull her away in some way. I have a hard time not being anxious about this. A couple of days before Christmas, we went to Church and she did not receive Communion, when she had gone to confession. I ask if she was going to receive Communion on Christmas Eve. I explained to her that the Eucharist was the focal point of the Mass, what it is all about. She responded that “she did not believe that.” She knows very little about her faith and she apparently does not want to learn. So I hope I can learn to let go after I have told her something and she does not want to listen.
 
lakotak said:
I am glad I saw this post. I have been trying to encourage and instruct my roommate, who is shall we say Catholic in name only, on the various aspects of Catholic doctrine. I have been so frustrated. For every time I get her to go to Mass, the devil seems to pull her away in some way. I have a hard time not being anxious about this. A couple of days before Christmas, we went to Church and she did not receive Communion, when she had gone to confession. I ask if she was going to receive Communion on Christmas Eve. I explained to her that the Eucharist was the focal point of the Mass, what it is all about. She responded that “she did not believe that.” She knows very little about her faith and she apparently does not want to learn. So I hope I can learn to let go after I have told her something and she does not want to listen.
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what you need to do is pray for her. it is very rare that we humans are able to change our neighbor’s mind. lol just look at all the political debates out there. just let God take over, but you have to pray for God to guide her.
 
someperson555 said:
what you need to do is pray for her. it is very rare that we humans are able to change our neighbor’s mind. lol just look at all the political debates out there. just let God take over, but you have to pray for God to guide her.
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Thanks for your words of wisdom. I think I am fast approaching the point of turning her over to God. I feel that I have tried so many times and failed, now he needs to take it from here.
It is hard to admit failure, but I am really at that point. Jesus needs to take the lead now. I do keep her in my prayers.
 
someperson555 said:
God is supposedly all merciful, so how could he allow good catholics to be decieved by the devil. just consider all the protestant sects which have formed throughout the centuries, then theres bayside and numerous other false visons and messages, and then theres the sedevacantists, and finally perhaps the saddset of all: corruption within our own church (yes it does happen).

how could God allow this to happen? these thing are clearly not all the work of prideful humans. the devils work is so evident here. and the confusion is so overwhelming that its becoming extremely difficult for a good lay catholic to discerm himself. its chaos. you have the sedevacantists (rightfully) condemning bayside, but along iwth thier condemnation of bayside they also bash the current catholic church. they claim that the purpose of bayside was to get more people to worship the “heretical” vatican 2 (as they call it).
then theres all these devotions and novenas which some catholics claim to be good and some catholics claim to evil. even the catholic church is not free from this, theres the funny business about the third secret of fatima, and theres the allegded assasination of John Paul 1.
i mean i know Jesus tests the faithful even, but this is getting ridiculous. it seems to me that he gives the devil a free hand in decieving humans, and then places all the blame on us for falling for it. i dont get it.
Click to expand...
As for what St. Paul states: “In all things, God works for the good.” We are in need of salvation and Satan is being used as one of God’s tools here on earth.
 
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