How could God not have a creator?

[lissa70]

My 8-year-old son told me the other day that he was having trouble understanding how God has always existed. He explained that it was difficult to understand because everything else was created (by Him), but not God; He always existed. I had a response, but I was wondering what any of you out there would say.

 

[Rolltide]

Good luck. He’s asked one of the great paradoxes. If God always existed, how is it possible that he could have always been around and have no beginning? If God was created, how could he have come from nothing, or how could something else have existed to create him. (The same paradox applies to the creation of the universe. If it always existed, how could it not have a beginning? If it was created, how could something be created from nothing?)

What’s so interesting about the question is that all of the answers are impossible according to human logic, and yet one must be true…

 

[Luke_K]

Existence is part of God’s nature, but not of anything in creation. We know it is not the nature of anything in creation to exist, because all forms of matter (trees, cars, people) cease to exist, and the fundamental constituents of matter (protons, neutrons, electrons) can cease to exist when they collide with their antimatter counterparts (transforming into other fundamental particles, nevertheless). Since we know from looking at creation that nothing in it exists by its own nature, it must have gotten its existence from something else that does exist by its very nature. Just as a car is not red by its nature, so it must get red from redness itself.

God revealed himself to humanity in terms that we could determine from basic reason alone. He told us his name, “I Am Who Am”, the personal being who exists by his very nature.

 

[marbles_the_cat]

I like the above answers, but for my addition…

God created time, and is not bound by it like we are. So he can exist without any beginning.

(I’m wondering when my 8 year old is going to ask this question; kids are really good at asking the hard ones!)

 

[gilbs72]

I think it would be good to assist your 8-year-old to understand that it is possible for a few–or even one–to be different from the many. A concept of exception.

The head of the train is the only car that does not need to be pulled. The rest has to be pulled by a car ahead of it, and ultimately by the engine. So, even if all the other cars cannot move alone, the steam engine can move alone.

God is also the only being that does not need to be created. All power comes from him. He does not need a beginning, He is the beginning of everything created.

 

[Nimzovik]

Where is the beginning of a circle?

 

[Little_One0307]

Only God can create, if he was created then He would not be God. [succinct]

 

[tonyrey]

Where is the beginning of a circle?

And circles don’t exist by chance!

 

[Sair]

I think it would be good to assist your 8-year-old to understand that it is possible for a few–or even one–to be different from the many. A concept of exception.

The head of the train is the only car that does not need to be pulled. The rest has to be pulled by a car ahead of it, and ultimately by the engine. So, even if all the other cars cannot move alone, the steam engine can move alone.

God is also the only being that does not need to be created. All power comes from him. He does not need a beginning, He is the beginning of everything created.

Slightly poor analogy in that the locomotive requires (name removed by moderator)ut and is powered by some physical source of energy. What source powers God in his creation? Is he a perpetual motion machine?

 

[Betterave]

My 8-year-old son told me the other day that he was having trouble understanding how God has always existed. He explained that it was difficult to understand because everything else was created (by Him), but not God; He always existed.

Yes…? So what is it that is hard to understand?

 

[Betterave]

Slightly poor analogy in that the locomotive requires (name removed by moderator)ut and is powered by some physical source of energy.

I’m not sure how that makes it a poor analogy.

What source powers God in his creation?

In other words: what source of power powers the source of all power?

Is he a perpetual motion machine?

Is this a sincerely posed question?

Obviously that’s not what we believe, since we don’t believe he is a machine.

 

[Little_One0307]

I meant to preface my comment with this, Somewhere faith has got to come into the picture. If one is lacking in faith, then one needs to ask for faith. We will never understand everything about God perfectly. There will always be something we don’t understand. What we are called to do is not to understand everything [though trying to understand is not a bad thing] but we are called to trust and put our Faith in God. God is Truth. He cannot lie.

Sorry late posting last night, should have waited until this morning.

God bless.

 

[Luke_K]

Where is the beginning of a circle?

No circle we know of hasn’t been created. Geometrical boundaries are not relevant to questions of eternal existence. Besides, I can say the beginning of a circle is an arbitrary point (1,0 on the coordinate axes) that was then drawn around into a circle back to its starting point.

Betterave:

Yes…? So what is it that is hard to understand?

It can be hard to understand why God is the exception to the rule of being created. Why can’t we just say the universe doesn’t have to be created if God doesn’t have to be? That is the question.

 

[Luke_K]

I think it would be good to assist your 8-year-old to understand that it is possible for a few–or even one–to be different from the many. A concept of exception.

The head of the train is the only car that does not need to be pulled. The rest has to be pulled by a car ahead of it, and ultimately by the engine. So, even if all the other cars cannot move alone, the steam engine can move alone.

God is also the only being that does not need to be created. All power comes from him. He does not need a beginning, He is the beginning of everything created.

I agree with this explanation, and its age appropriate. The boy is basically asking why all the train cars have to be pulled but the engine doesn’t. The engine doesn’t because it’s the source of its own power (more or less).

 

[GWright]

My 8-year-old son told me the other day that he was having trouble understanding how God has always existed. He explained that it was difficult to understand because everything else was created (by Him), but not God; He always existed. I had a response, but I was wondering what any of you out there would say.

Hiya,

When people say to me “Who made God?”, I ask them “Who made 2+2=4?”.

While they are spluttering around, trying to think of what to say, I expand:

“Did someone make 2+2=4, or has 2+2 always just equalled 4?”

They then have to admit that no-one made 2+2=4, and 2+2=4 “just exists”.

So, if they can accept that simple numerical truths “just exist”, why cannot they accept it about God and the Truth?

 

[Little_One0307]

Hiya,

When people say to me “Who made God?”, I ask them “Who made 2+2=4?”.

While they are spluttering around, trying to think of what to say, I expand:

“Did someone make 2+2=4, or has 2+2 always just equalled 4?”

They then have to admit that no-one made 2+2=4, and 2+2=4 “just exists”.

So, if they can accept that simple numerical truths “just exist”, why cannot they accept it about God and the Truth?

Got a question, What if you redefine the number system and or set theory? 2 + 2 = 4 becuase of the way the system is defined. It only exists because of the way the system is set up.

[NOTE: I am a mathematics major, and decided to throw this in. We do end up coming up with new definitions of the number system and mathematical rules, it’s just something to do in spare time lol. I guess I need to get a life.]

Good example though.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

God created everything, and that includes time. God is outside of time.

What did you say?

 

[Betterave]

It can be hard to understand why God is the exception to the rule of being created.

So analogously: It can be hard to understand why the locomotive that pulls the train is the exception to the rule of being pulled.

But can that be hard to understand?? I’d have thought an eight-year-old, or anyone mature enough to even pose a question about it, would have no problem seeing that this is a pseudo-problem. Maybe I’ll ask my four-year-old and see what he has to say.

 

[inocente]

So, if they can accept that simple numerical truths “just exist”, why cannot they accept it about God and the Truth?

They just exist as theorems because the axioms make it so, and you accept the axioms.

If you told me 2 + 2 = 2 I’d say fine, Boolean, or 6 + 2 = 10 fine, octal, but non-programmer-geeks might not get it.

It seems easier to learn other number systems at age 8 than age 28, kids aren’t so attached to base ten as adults. But some concepts can fly right over children’s heads until they reach a certain age. For instance, I remember patiently trying to explain to my little sister about the sky in a picture going all the way down to the horizon, but she would only paint it as a blue band across the top, the sky had to be above her.

At least lissa70’s son isn’t asking for an explanation of the Trinity.

 

[Betterave]

They just exist as theorems because the axioms make it so, and you accept the axioms.

One may or may not “just accept the axioms.” It’s not actually clear what that means: do you accept the axioms themselves, or do you accept them as such and understand that they are axioms?

In any case, the theorems are so because *the axioms *are so, not because you accept the axioms. Thus when you say:

“If you told me 2 + 2 = 2 I’d say fine, Boolean, or 6 + 2 = 10 fine, octal, but non-programmer-geeks might not get it.”
the relevant point is actually about what axioms I am intending to use, and I am simply wrong to use Boolean or octal arbitrarily, particularly in a situation which calls for the use of base-10.