How could God possibly experience our physical worlds?

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How could God possibly experience our physical worlds?

The very important question is that how we could merge two concepts, one living in state of time and another in state of timeless.

Assume that creation goes from state A1 at time T1 to state A2 at time T2. This is very easy to comprehend from our point of view. The main question is how God could realize what is the current state of Universe, at least current time, since this knowledge requires a change in state of knowledge of God because time changes over time? This knowledge however required otherwise God cannot act appropriate at the moment.
 
Bahman said:
How could God possibly experience our physical worlds?

The very important question is that how we could merge two concepts, one living in state of time and another in state of timeless.

Assume that creation goes from state A1 at time T1 to state A2 at time T2. This is very easy to comprehend from our point of view. The main question is how God could realize what is the current state of Universe, at least current time, since this knowledge requires a change in state of knowledge of God because time changes over time? This knowledge however required otherwise God cannot act appropriate at the moment.
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Well, simply stated, God has always known states A1 and A2 would be at times T1 and T2 and always known that at appropriate times always known by him that his Messenger would stand in his Name and act at the appropriate time. God, in his being or essence does not “do” anything temporally, but his creatures (us, the Angels, etc.) act in time as he knows and as they have “learned” from knowing him.
To God, T1 and T2 and all intervening time are Now and eternal. It is or would be a very limited and mutable god that would only know the state of the universe as that state came to be, and a very “reactionary god”.

There is no merging of two concepts; God is intellect and understanding and being in full actuality (at his goal). We are intellect and understanding and being in various stages of potential toward actuality. We are in movement, He is not. And he knows our “goings out and our comings in”, while we are in the midst of choosing whether to go in or out. He does not force our choosing, but already knows. And his Messengers have spoken calls from Him to come to him rather than to go out to gods that are not Him.

John Martin
 
Assume that creation goes from state A1 at time T1 to state A2 at time T2. This is very easy to comprehend from our point of view. The main question is how God could realize what is the current state of Universe, at least current time, since this knowledge requires a change in state of knowledge of God because time changes over time?
Click to expand...
God simultaneously knows every state of the universe from the beginning to the everlasting future through his omniscience which is not restricted to time.

Glad to help. :cool:
 
John_Martin said:
Well, simply stated, God has always known states A1 and A2 would be at times T1 and T2 and always known that at appropriate times always known by him that his Messenger would stand in his Name and act at the appropriate time. God, in his being or essence does not “do” anything temporally, but his creatures (us, the Angels, etc.) act in time as he knows and as they have “learned” from knowing him.
To God, T1 and T2 and all intervening time are Now and eternal. It is or would be a very limited and mutable god that would only know the state of the universe as that state came to be, and a very “reactionary god”.

There is no merging of two concepts; God is intellect and understanding and being in full actuality (at his goal). We are intellect and understanding and being in various stages of potential toward actuality. We are in movement, He is not. And he knows our “goings out and our comings in”, while we are in the midst of choosing whether to go in or out. He does not force our choosing, but already knows. And his Messengers have spoken calls from Him to come to him rather than to go out to gods that are not Him.

John Martin
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First, to my understanding this picture represents a static picture of God. That is a God who could not interact with its creatures as it already knows everything. This means that creation is travelling along a sharp line and each of its state at given time is know by God.

Second, does God could answer to a simple question: what time is it right now?
 
empther said:
God simultaneously knows every state of the universe from the beginning to the everlasting future through his omniscience which is not restricted to time.

Glad to help. :cool:
Click to expand...
Does God know what time is it right now?
 
Of course,
Bahman can continue this game of twenty questions forever.

The reason he can continue it forever is that he ignores relevant points already made by other forum members.
This is the standard technique of atheists: ignore points already made and you can keep spreading doubt forever.
 
Bahman said:
First, to my understanding this picture represents a static picture of God. That is a God who could not interact with its creatures as it already knows everything. This means that creation is travelling along a sharp line and each of its state at given time is know by God.

Second, does God could answer to a simple question: what time is it right now?
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Ask him what time it is. What do you hear? silence? And yet, I say to you, “It is 9:45am in St. Paul”. Could it be he knew always you would ask and knew always I would be inspired to answer, such that I am the Messenger to you in this moment from God, answering your prayer, participating in the Will of God? God did not intervene to suddenly say something, but he has always willed to answer you who function in time.

John Martin.
 
empther said:
Of course,
Bahman can continue this game of twenty questions forever.

The reason he can continue it forever is that he ignores relevant points already made by other forum members.
This is the standard technique of atheists: ignore points already made and you can keep spreading doubt forever.
Click to expand...
Does God know what time is it now? Yes.

This means that the state of mind of God is subject of time. Am I too ambiguous?
 
Bahman said:
Does God know what time is it right now?
Click to expand...
Time is irrelevant to God for God is outside of time - God always was, is and will be. God is pure spirit and uses matter or material things to reveal His Presence among men and calls them to what they were created for - to be in a relationship with Him. God does not force us to love Him - He respects our free will even to the point of allowing us to reject Him.

Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

This is another way to explain it:

youtube.com/watch?v=8FlIchSJoOA
 
Bahman said:
So God is not in state of timeless anymore?
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Bahman,
You sound like you are truly seeking to understand some complex ideas about God. We here, however, are answering you as amateurs. I find that when I really want to know the truth about something it is best to find and learn from The Expert in that question.
If you want to really understand this question, I would suggest you study the First Part of the Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.i.html ) where St Thomas will lead you to understand this God of whom we write, and even love him. And if you move on to the Second Part, he will also show you how to understand yourself and participation in this God. It is hard work to be his student, but by the end of your study you will easily answer others with questions like the ones you raise, and feel at home with this God who never changes but in the incarnation interacts with us to give us life. I hope you have perseverance to do this; and you will be very glad you did it.

John Martin
 
Bahman said:
Does God know what time is it right now?
Click to expand...
God is outside of time, so your concept of now doesn’t apply to God because God sees every second in time in the singular moment of eternity.

You are inside time, which means you look outward to time because time affects you. So you have a “it is x o’ clock right now” where as God sees you in every moment of your life
 
Bahman said:
Does God know what time is it right now?
Click to expand...
I do: 11:21 EST.

And I sure don’t think I know more than God… nor do I think I can understand God and His thoughts. I think I’d rather focus on doing what He thinks is best for us all.
 
40.png
Bahman:
Assume that creation goes from state A1 at time T1 to state A2 at time T2. This is very easy to comprehend from our point of view. The main question is how God could realize what is the current state of Universe, at least current time, since this knowledge requires a change in state of knowledge of God because time changes over time? This knowledge however required otherwise God cannot act appropriate at the moment.
Click to expand...
At each moment of time, I have a set of mental states. Each set of my mental states corresponds to a moment in time because I am a temporal being. IMO God, being outside of time, has one set of mental states to correspond with not just each time, but each event in time. Sorry if this was a little complex. Hope I answered your question.
 
My daughter did a retreat and this topic was brought up. This is how their leader explained it:

He had them close their eyes and he would say something about God and they were to contemplate on it. This went on for about 20 minutes. After, he asked how much time do you think passed while doing this spiritual exercise? They all said probably about 5 minutes. They were all surprised that 20 minutes of time had passed when it only felt like 5.

That is what time is like when you are talking and just surrounded by God’s Presence. See its not the amount of time that passes but the joy and peace that envelops your entire being for God does not count the time when He is with you but rather He is loving every minute of you!

And, Amen to that.

I Have Always Loved You by Third Day:
youtube.com/watch?v=7fdu6zRpVa8

Love Song by Third Day:
youtube.com/watch?v=kjFEkI8ETf0
 
40.png
peace2u2:
My daughter did a retreat and this topic was brought up. This is how their leader explained it:

He had them close their eyes and he would say something about God and they were to contemplate on it. This went on for about 20 minutes. After, he asked how much time do you think passed while doing this spiritual exercise? They all said probably about 5 minutes. They were all surprised that 20 minutes of time had passed when it only felt like 5.

That is what time is like when you are talking and just surrounded by God’s Presence. See its not the amount of time that passes but the joy and peace that envelops your entire being for God does not count the time when He is with you but rather He is loving every minute of you!
Click to expand...
This story is completely irrelevant. We’ve all been surprised about the passage of time before. This is a useless argument.
 
Of course God knows what time it is right now.

But it is also true that to God, every time is right now.
 
peace2u2 said:
Time is irrelevant to God for God is outside of time - God always was, is and will be. God is pure spirit and uses matter or material things to reveal His Presence among men and calls them to what they were created for - to be in a relationship with Him. God does not force us to love Him - He respects our free will even to the point of allowing us to reject Him.

Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

This is another way to explain it:

youtube.com/watch?v=8FlIchSJoOA
Click to expand...
How possibly good could interact with creation, the concept of relationship in Christianity, if time is irrelevant to God. The picture of God in timeless frame produce a God which cannot causally interact with creation since it does not knot time and current state of creation. The concept praying is also is lost in this picture as well.
 
bzkoss236 said:
God is outside of time, so your concept of now doesn’t apply to God because God sees every second in time in the singular moment of eternity.

You are inside time, which means you look outward to time because time affects you. So you have a “it is x o’ clock right now” where as God sees you in every moment of your life
Click to expand...
I am aware of that picture, but in that picture God only knows different state of creation at different time from eternity to eternity. God does not know the current state of time and creation and as a result cannot interact with its creation.
 
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