How could Muhammad win the battle of badr if he was clearly out-numbered by 3 to 1?

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Timi_Celcer

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Quran says that thousand angels helped him in this battle. If it weren’t true wouldn’t muslims that were there at the battle of badr say that Muhammad lied or God lied when he put in the Quran that thousand angels helped Muhammad?

I dont believe in Quran but im looking for a logical explanation of this.
 
Why would you need a logical explanation for something you don’t believe? :confused:

On news, the boogie man looks for Chuck Norris under his bed.
 
Timi_Celcer said:
Quran says that thousand angels helped him in this battle. If it weren’t true wouldn’t muslims that were there at the battle of badr say that Muhammad lied or God lied when he put in the Quran that thousand angels helped Muhammad?

I dont believe in Quran but im looking for a logical explanation of this.
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Do we have any accounts given by Muslims who were there?
When was the Quran written? How much time passed between the battle of Badr and the writing of this passage of the Quran?

The Bible says Christ died on the cross. If this were not true wouldn’t the people who were there say it was a lie?
The Bible says Christ rose from the dead. If this were not true would not the people there say it was a lie? If it were not true could they not have pointed to the tomb with His body still in it?

You ask for a logical explanation. I reply that the assertion made in the Quran is only that - an assertion. There is no evidence to support it.
 
Timi_Celcer said:
Quran says that thousand angels helped him in this battle. If it weren’t true wouldn’t muslims that were there at the battle of badr say that Muhammad lied or God lied when he put in the Quran that thousand angels helped Muhammad?

I dont believe in Quran but im looking for a logical explanation of this.
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Simple. He lied about being outnumbered and had this lie written in the quran.
 
Is there any historical evidence for this battle? I ask merely out of curiosity.
 
Timi, the battle of badr and it’s outcome is nothing short of a miracle. 313 poorly armed and mostly elderly Muslims vs 1000 men strong and experienced fighters. The Muslims were outnumbered 3 to 1. These 313 were all that represented Islam. If they had been defeated then the Muslim movement would have ended right then but God would not allow it. 🙂

It is reported that the Mahdi (As) would return and lead the world when there are 313 faithful followers same as the number if men at the badr battle. They will come from all over the world and will be united with the Mahdi overnight at Makkah. That is when Islam will be reborn anew.
 
famdigy said:
Timi, the battle of badr and it’s outcome is nothing short of a miracle. 313 poorly armed and mostly elderly Muslims vs 1000 men strong and experienced fighters. The Muslims were outnumbered 3 to 1. These 313 were all that represented Islam. If they had been defeated then the Muslim movement would have ended right then but God would not allow it. 🙂

It is reported that the Mahdi (As) would return and lead the world when there are 313 faithful followers same as the number if men at the badr battle. They will come from all over the world and will be united with the Mahdi overnight at Makkah. That is when Islam will be reborn anew.
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Caeser won against 5 to 1 odds with his forces sandwiched between two enemy armies (he was sieging one and the other enemy army surrounded his army and besieged him). Winning against 3 to 1 odds is only a miracle if the leader of the outnumbered army has no clue what he is doing and his soldiers have absolutely zero military skills.

Lastly, if winning this battle somehow validates Muhammad and the Quran, then the Hallelujah Victory (won with the use of one word) would logically invalidate Muhammad and the Quran.
 
Timi_Celcer said:
Quran says that thousand angels helped him in this battle. If it weren’t true wouldn’t muslims that were there at the battle of badr say that Muhammad lied or God lied when he put in the Quran that thousand angels helped Muhammad?

I dont believe in Quran but im looking for a logical explanation of this.
Click to expand...
Numbers are only a small factor in determining who will/should win a battle. Other factors would be- terrain, weather, equipment, leadership, skill and condition of the troops, morale, etc.
 
bben15 said:
I don’t think the Muslims on this forum would take that remark too kindly. 🤷
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I would have worded it differently, but it is a valid possibility. Accurate and truthful reporting of battles (and history itself) is a relatively modern practice. Examples of enemy numbers being inflated and friendly numbers being deflated can readily be found in European history.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Caeser won against 5 to 1 odds with his forces sandwiched between two enemy armies (he was sieging one and the other enemy army surrounded his army and besieged him).
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And Wellington was outnumbered at least 6:1 at Assaye.
 
famdigy said:
Timi, the battle of badr and it’s outcome is nothing short of a miracle. 313 poorly armed and mostly elderly Muslims vs 1000 men strong and experienced fighters. The Muslims were outnumbered 3 to 1. These 313 were all that represented Islam. If they had been defeated then the Muslim movement would have ended right then but God would not allow it. 🙂

It is reported that the Mahdi (As) would return and lead the world when there are 313 faithful followers same as the number if men at the badr battle. They will come from all over the world and will be united with the Mahdi overnight at Makkah. That is when Islam will be reborn anew.
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Dear Muslim,

You are Aware that this prophecy of the Mahdi was fulfilled by the Babi Faith at Fort Tabarsi when 313 Babis were surrounded and attacked by the Muslim forces…?
 
Timi_Celcer said:
Quran says that thousand angels helped him in this battle. If it weren’t true wouldn’t muslims that were there at the battle of badr say that Muhammad lied or God lied when he put in the Quran that thousand angels helped Muhammad?

I dont believe in Quran but im looking for a logical explanation of this.
Click to expand...
Your assuming this happened historically to begin with. Start by demonstrating this as a reasonable historical event that we should trust happened.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Your assuming this happened historically to begin with. Start by demonstrating this as a reasonable historical event that we should trust happened.
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Ive never heard of this battle till this thread. A little research led me to find that the Palestinian flag colors have Badr as part of its history.

MJ
 
You don’t need a thousand angels to defeat human kind! many times in the Bible a single angel was enough to destroy a whole city.

That story is somehow a myth because Muslims were defeated in other battles during and after Muhammed, so where were those claimed angels!
 
“Most contemporary knowledge of the battle at Badr comes from traditional Islamic accounts, both hadiths and biographies of Muhammad, recorded in written form some time after the battle.”

Information about the battle comes only from Islamic sources, written long after the battle took place. Hmmmmmm. No reliable information whatsoever.

Well, we all know the guy who caught the 20 foot fish.
 
Reepicheep said:
Do we have any accounts given by Muslims who were there?
When was the Quran written? How much time passed between the battle of Badr and the writing of this passage of the Quran?

The Bible says Christ died on the cross. If this were not true wouldn’t the people who were there say it was a lie?
The Bible says Christ rose from the dead. If this were not true would not the people there say it was a lie? If it were not true could they not have pointed to the tomb with His body still in it?

You ask for a logical explanation. I reply that the assertion made in the Quran is only that - an assertion. There is no evidence to support it.
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There isn’t even any evidence to suggest Jesus even resurrected , not even the slightest bit of evidence, show me concrete valid proof he did and come back to me please
 
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