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KevinK
Guest
How can angels be multiple places simultaneously? They are not omnipresent.
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commenter
Guest
I can’t be in two places at one time, because I am in time, time limited.
Angels can be wherever and whenever God wants them to be. They are “higher” than us but lower than God. Earlier Christians found it much easier to consider this intermediate category.
Angels can be wherever and whenever God wants them to be. They are “higher” than us but lower than God. Earlier Christians found it much easier to consider this intermediate category.
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Latin
Guest
Catechism
302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains the ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it.
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This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
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It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, Hom. xxviii in Matt, n. 3 in; P.G., LVII, 354).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, i, v, vi, xv, xvi.
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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321 Divine providence consists of the dispositions by which God guides all his creatures with wisdom and love to their ultimate end.
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God bless
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Wesrock
Guest
The fruit didn’t corrupt man. Man disobeyed on his own and refused to repent and thus forfeited gifts given to him by God.
Angels, likewise, didn’t need a tree of conscience to know God. The came into existence, did some introspection, and chose whether or not they considered God their ultimate good and end.
Angels, likewise, didn’t need a tree of conscience to know God. The came into existence, did some introspection, and chose whether or not they considered God their ultimate good and end.
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Latin
Guest
The Mystery of Predestination by John Salza. Page 113
However, the Church teaches that God infused Adam with sufficient grace to resist temptation and to perform his duties with charity.
God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.
Like the Prodigal Son, God moved Adam to repentance and obedience through prevenient, efficacious graces prior to regenerating his soul with infused grace. End quote.
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The crucial question is:
Why God instead of sufficient grace He has given Adam and Eve efficacious graces which graces would infallible protected them from the “fall”? – Something to think about.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains the reason.
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
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412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning?
St. Leo the Great responds, Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away. 307
And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good.
Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’ 308
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God bless
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Cruciferi
Guest
PRIDE. Some theologians have postulated that 1/3 of the Angels rejected the Incarnation. They didn’t wish to serve a God Man nor did they believe it was appropriate. It was beneath their dignity so to speak.
So, they fought a terrifying battle, Loyalists versus Traitors. Although some have attempted to downplay this fight by saying it was a “Theological Debate”, I find no reason to believe them.
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Cruciferi
Guest
Uh, there are at least as many Angels as there have ever been people. Actually, they may vastly outnumber us. I’m sure there are enough to attend the Masses offered throughout the world.
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Zaccheus
Guest
I have actually seen someone on a message board say something to the effect that they would not accept God as their superior.
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Shasta-Rose
Guest
Maybe a lot of the angels really liked Lucifer, who was supposedly God’s number one angel, referred to as “the anointed angel who covers.” He must have been a type of second in command and very charismatic. It must have been like in a company today, where many would prefer to follow the Operations Manager rather than the CEO.
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KevinK
Guest
How do you know the number of angels?
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phil19034
Guest
I’ve heard it said that the demons decided to betray God when they learned about the plan for man.
When they learned that God was going to become flesh and that Jesus (fully God and fully man) was going to sit at the right hand of God the Father, that was too much for them.
They could not comprehend why their God was going to make Himself a “disgusting” human and allow a human woman to give birth to Him.
Because they view themselves as above humanity, they refused to accept that God would choose Mary to be the spouse of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to God the Son. And that the Son of God would be both fully God and fully human.
They choose Hell, not so much because they hated God, but rather because of how much they hate humanity.
At least that’s one theory.
God Bless
When they learned that God was going to become flesh and that Jesus (fully God and fully man) was going to sit at the right hand of God the Father, that was too much for them.
They could not comprehend why their God was going to make Himself a “disgusting” human and allow a human woman to give birth to Him.
Because they view themselves as above humanity, they refused to accept that God would choose Mary to be the spouse of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to God the Son. And that the Son of God would be both fully God and fully human.
They choose Hell, not so much because they hated God, but rather because of how much they hate humanity.
At least that’s one theory.
God Bless
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Cruciferi
Guest
I didn’t give a specific number. However, it’s pretty clear from multiple sources that they’re quite numerous
Go read these books:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0895556383/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_Z7KpCb0CGCRFS
An Exorcist Tells His Story https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898707102/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_r-KpCbTATCNKR
Go read these books:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0895556383/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_Z7KpCb0CGCRFS
An Exorcist Tells His Story https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898707102/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_r-KpCbTATCNKR
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phil19034
Guest
- There are supposedly a ton of them. At least one Guardian Angel for every human.
- While they are not omnipresent, they may be outside space and time like God is. Which theoretically means they can “time travel.”
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meltzerboy2
Guest
Divine providence extends “even to the reprobate Jews”? Can’t be.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
Judaism has a simpler answer: the angels do NOT have free will to rebel. On the contrary, they MUST do as they are instructed by Gd, including HaSatan, the tempter, the accuser, and the recorder of our sins. They CANNOT accomplish any other task except the one they are designed for by Gd. Thus mankind is the ONLY being who has free will, and this is why Gd called His Creation VERY good (rather than merely good) only after He created man. But we do agree with Catholicism that the destiny, divine providence of the universe is incomplete and was created such by Gd. However, it is only through the partnership of Gd and HUMANITY, rather than that of Gd and His angels, that the universe can be gradually repaired and evil be conquered.
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commenter
Guest
I knew many Priests who either went to seminary during the 1960s or else were “transformed”, to disown the doctrine they had been taught. They disbelieved in angels.
This group either avoided or tried to eliminate anything supernatural. Since angels are higher than people that went against the Fixation with equality. Today the young priests are different.
This group either avoided or tried to eliminate anything supernatural. Since angels are higher than people that went against the Fixation with equality. Today the young priests are different.
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Vico
Guest
Q. Why would any perfect beings rebel against God? That’s not perfect. If they can rebel by free will, they must be corrupted by default. Why would angels have pride? Why do they have pride? Are they corrupted like humans?
A. Angels were not created prefect.
Catechism
Q. Why would any angels try to reign in hell?
A. Some of the angels fall into death out of envy. Angels are capable of sinning by choosing a proper good without ordering that good to the rule of God’s will. For angels, once the choice to reject God is made it cannot be changed.
Wisdom 2
Revelation 12
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commenter
Guest
Angels were created perfect(ly) in the character of angels, just as we are created perfectly human, animals created perfectly animal like, and so on. Without free will angels and we would be unable to love. But with free will, we can choose love, or pride.
In other words the perfection is only referring to the work of the creator. It doesn’t refer to what the creature becomes, nor for comparison. A perfectly fashioned tree is never as important as a man, even a wicked one.
In another sense, “created perfect” is a contradiction in terms.
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Vico
Guest
Because there are different senses of the word perfect there can be confusion on a statement using it.Vico:
Angels were created perfect(ly) in the character of angels, just as we are created perfectly human, animals created perfectly animal like, and so on. Without free will angels and we would be unable to love. But with free will, we can choose love, or pride.
In other words the perfection is only referring to the work of the creator. It doesn’t refer to what the creature becomes, nor for comparison. A perfectly fashioned tree is never as important as a man, even a wicked one.
In another sense, “created perfect” is a contradiction in terms.
The Catechism uses the phrase: “in a state of journeying” towards its ultimate perfection. This shows that complete excellence or flawless is not the initial state. For that reason mankind needed supernatural sanctifying grace and the preternatural gifts, for original justice (of Adam and Eve) yet even then not stable in the will to charity.
Perfect (Collins Dictionary) adj.
1. complete in all respects; without defect or omission; sound; flawless
2. in a condition of complete excellence, as in skill or quantity; faultless; most excellent; sometimes used comparatively – “to create a more perfect union”
3.completely correct or accurate; exact; precise – a perfect copy
4. without reserve or qualification; pure; utter; sheer; absolute – a perfect fool, perfect stranger
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