How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

[reen12]

Brief article on the Judaic concept of the Messiah
from aish.com

aish.com/literacy/concepts/All_About_the_Messiah.asp

The links to four other articles may be found at

aish.com/search/aish_search.asp?SearchString=Messiah&Action=Go

reen

 

[Bob67]

**I went to aish.com & it was helpful but, what I’m really looking for is
Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
Ones that would be difficult for any Jew to defend!

I’m not looking for a debate here with Jews but, looking for references
to defend our Catholic Faith against their claim that He still hasn’t come!

References that are strong in defending the Catholic position
that clearly point to Christ as the Messiah.

Like Isaiah Chapter 53 which I believe is refering to what Christ did for us.

What are other OT references that were fulfilled in the NT?**

 

[Valke2]

I went to aish.com & it was helpful but, what I’m really looking for is
Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
Ones that would be difficult for any Jew to defend!

Good luck finding them.

I’m not looking for a debate here with Jews but, looking for references
to defend our Catholic Faith against their claim that He still hasn’t come!

I’m sure you can find dozens of Christian websites that list what they believe are fullfilled prophecies. If I undestand you correctly, you are strengthing your faith through learning it. I applaud your efforts.

 

[GrammasRose]

**I went to aish.com & it was helpful but, what I’m really looking for is
Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
Ones that would be difficult for any Jew to defend!

I’m not looking for a debate here with Jews but, looking for references
to defend our Catholic Faith against their claim that He still hasn’t come!

References that are strong in defending the Catholic position
that clearly point to Christ as the Messiah.

Like Isaiah Chapter 53 which I believe is refering to what Christ did for us.

What are other OT references that were fulfilled in the NT?**

It won’t work. You can’t beat down a Jew regarding the OT they know it far better than most.

 

[Bob67]

Okay! I give up! I guess nobody can help me defend the Catholic Faith & Jesus!

I repeat, I am Not looking for a debate in this forum so, Jews need not answer!

I just wanted more info. from a good Catholic,
to defend myself if I ever came across someone like Valke2.

I guess the book of Isaiah is enough. It’s strong enough for me!
I have No Doubt Christ is the Messiah.

His Second Coming will set the whole world right & than all will believe!
Very soon!

Sorry 4 the post!

:banghead:

 

[ASimpleSinner]

**I went to aish.com & it was helpful but, what I’m really looking for is
Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
Ones that would be difficult for any Jew to defend!

I’m not looking for a debate here with Jews but, looking for references
to defend our Catholic Faith against their claim that He still hasn’t come!

References that are strong in defending the Catholic position
that clearly point to Christ as the Messiah.

Like Isaiah Chapter 53 which I believe is refering to what Christ did for us.

What are other OT references that were fulfilled in the NT?**

Might I recomend you look up the writings of some Jewish converts? They offer some unique perspectives.

Also take a look at

The Revelation of the Son of Man
by Levi Khamor

search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=Levi+Khamor&z=y

The book is written by Br. Anthony Oppiso, MD who has lived as a hermit for over 30 years.

Here is an article he has written:
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TALMUD.htm

Don’t apologize for asking a question. Just be careful about how you word it. In apologetics or inter-Christian or inter-Faith dialogue, this is VERY important.

What seems so obvious to an adherent, is not always so obvious to the non-adherent… and it works both ways.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

If I undestand you correctly, you are strengthing your faith through learning it. I applaud your efforts.

You know what? I needed to read that!

That is one of the most enouraging things written from one to another of two opposing views I have read on this forum lately.

Thank you.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

You should really read the book Y’shua by Moishe Rosen. It goes through many of the Old Testament prophesies and shows how they are absolutely fulfilled by Jesus.

 

[Valke2]

Hello,

You should really read the book Y’shua by Moishe Rosen. It goes through many of the Old Testament prophesies and shows how they are absolutely fulfilled by Jesus.

THat’s the guy who founded Jews for Jesus. I wouldn’t mind debating that book on another thread. My main beef with that book is that it tries to cloth itself with a “Jewish flavor” as if it is one Jew speaking to another.

 

[GrammasRose]

Okay! I give up! I guess nobody can help me defend the Catholic Faith & Jesus!

I repeat, I am Not looking for a debate in this forum so, Jews need not answer!

I just wanted more info. from a good Catholic,
to defend myself if I ever came across someone like Valke2.

I guess the book of Isaiah is enough. It’s strong enough for me!
I have No Doubt Christ is the Messiah.

His Second Coming will set the whole world right & than all will believe!
Very soon!

Sorry 4 the post!

:banghead:

The best defense is to learn it for yourself.

 

[Valke2]

Against Valke2, there is no defense.

 

[ChemicalBean]

Many people wrongly believe that Judaism teaches that we are redeemed by obeying the commandments – through our deeds and acts. But this is not the case.We were redeemed at Mt. Sinai when God gave us the Torah. Our obeying the mitzvot/commandments through accepting Torah is our RESPONSE to the redemption. It is how we express our relationship with God.

Greetings, Valke2. I don’t have a horse in this race, although this topic is of interest to me. And I enjoy reading your posts.

I don’t wish to hijack the thread, but it occured to me when I read this that if you just switched a few words, you could make a very Catholic defense against some Christians who claim that we need to be “saved” as well in their way. (The good ol’ faith/works debate.) Like this:

Many people wrongly believe that Catholicism teaches that we are redeemed through works alone – through our deeds and acts. But this is not the case. We were redeemed at Calvary when God gave us the Word Incarnate. Our doing good works through accepting the Word is our RESPONSE to the redemption. It is how we express our relationship with God.

 

[Valke2]

Greetings, Valke2. I don’t have a horse in this race, although this topic is of interest to me. And I enjoy reading your posts.

I don’t wish to hijack the thread, but it occured to me when I read this that if you just switched a few words, you could make a very Catholic defense against some Christians who claim that we need to be “saved” as well in their way. (The good ol’ faith/works debate.) Like this:

I’ll be checking my mail for the royalty check

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

THat’s the guy who founded Jews for Jesus. I wouldn’t mind debating that book on another thread. My main beef with that book is that it tries to cloth itself with a “Jewish flavor” as if it is one Jew speaking to another.

So, you agree with the subject, but disagree on presentation? Wasn’t he raised Jewish, so wouldn’t it be one Jew speaking to another?

Do you want to start the new thread, or shall I?

 

[Valke2]

Hello,

So, you agree with the subject, but disagree on presentation? Wasn’t he raised Jewish, so wouldn’t it be one Jew speaking to another?

Do you want to start the new thread, or shall I?

heh. If you (meaning Jews for Jesus) are going to try to convince Jews to become Christians, don’t try tricking them into believing they are still following judaism. THe guy was born jewish but converted to Christianity when he was a teenager. He’s a baptist minister and the organization is clearly an christian evangelical organization, not a Jewish one.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi Valke,
I have a a couple of questions for you

1. Do the Jewish people only study the first five books of our Bible?
2. Do Jewish people ever study Isaiah?
3. Does Judaism teach life after death–Heaven or Hell?

These came up in our bible study today so I thought you may be the perfect person to ask.

Thanks

 

[ALLFORHIM]

**
Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

Old Testament - Prophecy written over 700 years before the Crucifixion of Christ!

Isaiah Chapter 53

1 Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him.
3 He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, One of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held him in no esteem.
4 Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.
6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.
7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth.
8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,
9 A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
10 (But the LORD was pleased to crush him in infirmity.) If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.
11 Because of his affliction he shall see the light in fullness of days; Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear.
12 Therefore I will give him his portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked; And he shall take away the sins of many, and win pardon for their offenses.**

Does anyone know of other Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
I want strong references, like this one!

The reason is simply because they didnt BELIEVE

 

[Valke2]

Hi Valke,
I have a a couple of questions for you

1. Do the Jewish people only study the first five books of our Bible?

We study the Torah (the big 5), the prophets, other wirtings (psalms, Esther, Job, etc.), and the Talmud.

1. Do Jewish people ever study Isaiah?

Yes, all the time. as well as the other prophets. When we daven in shul, we read from the Torah and the “haf-Torah”, which is selected readings from various prophets.

1. Does Judaism teach life after death–Heaven or Hell?

Yes, but there’s not a lot of dogma on these topics so what individual Jews believe will vary. You can look at Rambam’s 13 principles of faith for a glimpse of what I guess comes closest to dogmatic belief in this regard.

Thanks

 

[Valke2]

Here’s a list of the works that make up the Tanakh – the canon of scripture that we study (Torah+Nevi’m+Ketuvim=TaNaKh)

The CHumash: 5 books of MOses

Nev’im: Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel.

        Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, 
        Habakuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

Ketuvim: Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentation, Ecclesiates, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Chronicles.

That + Talmud.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We study the Torah (the big 5), the prophets, other wirtings (psalms, Esther, Job, etc.), and the Talmud.

Yes, all the time. as well as the other prophets. When we daven in shul, we read from the Torah and the “haf-Torah”, which is selected readings from various prophets.

Yes, but there’s not a lot of dogma on these topics so what individual Jews believe will vary. You can look at Rambam’s 13 principles of faith for a glimpse of what I guess comes closest to dogmatic belief in this regard.

Thanks

Thank you Valke do you have a lnik where I could read the Rambam’s 13 principle?