How could they do this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter totheresuce
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

totheresuce

Guest
A good friend of mine, who is a strict Catholic, went to a Church retreat with her family and friends. During the retreat a “rival” Christian church crashed the retreat and rioted against my friend and her Church. They had picket signs and everything! They began to curse my friend (I’ll refer to her as “J”) and her family/friends for being Catholic, and even grabbed young children and told them that their parents didn’t love them because they allowed them to be Catholic! Now, I couldn’t make this up if I tried, but the Christian church then proceeded to throw used pads and other feminine products at J and her family. Riot police had to be called and brought to the scene to remove the hostile Christians. Do things like this happen often? I don’t understand HOW this could happen! J said she cried because of it, and I was sick to my stomach when she told me the entire story. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where someone has tried pushing their religion on me, and if they tried I GUESS I would understand why they would, but how could one resort to doing something like that?
 
A good friend of mine, who is a strict Catholic, went to a Church retreat with her family and friends. During the retreat a “rival” Christian church crashed the retreat and rioted against my friend and her Church. They had picket signs and everything! They began to curse my friend (I’ll refer to her as “J”) and her family/friends for being Catholic, and even grabbed young children and told them that their parents didn’t love them because they allowed them to be Catholic! Now, I couldn’t make this up if I tried, but the Christian church then proceeded to throw used pads and other feminine products at J and her family. Riot police had to be called and brought to the scene to remove the hostile Christians. Do things like this happen often? I don’t understand HOW this could happen! J said she cried because of it, and I was sick to my stomach when she told me the entire story. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where someone has tried pushing their religion on me, and if they tried I GUESS I would understand why they would, but how could one resort to doing something like that?
Simple (or not so simple) answer - hatred.

Married women threw urine at 8 year old girls at this protest.

youtube.com/watch?v=IEIX-I_Y8qw

I would hate to consumed with this degree of hatred.
 
HOW? look at the news. The question should rather be WHY and how on earth do they think this is WWJD and that it would possibly convert anyone?
Your religion is “Irish Catholic” although I am not aware of an Irish Catholic church. I am only aware of Latin right as opposed to several other rites that all belong to the one people sometimes call the Roman Catholic Church - this aside surely you know of the sectarian violence in Ireland that ripped neighborhoods and families apart??? … it is called the human failing .
 
HOW? look at the news. The question should rather be WHY and how on earth do they think this is WWJD and that it would possibly convert anyone?
Your religion is “Irish Catholic” although I am not aware of an Irish Catholic church. I am only aware of Latin right as opposed to several other rites that all belong to the one people sometimes call the Roman Catholic Church - this aside surely you know of the sectarian violence in Ireland that ripped neighborhoods and families apart??? … it is called the human failing .
Irish Catholic church I think mostly just refers to a Latin Catholic church with Irish customs. That aside, I have only done some brief reading on the religious conflicts in ireland, but I know there are a lot of them. There’s that little bit of northern Ireland that was so Protestant that it wanted to remain in the UK and then the rest of the tiny island that was so Catholic it wanted to be an independent country. Recipe for tension? I would imagine so.

Ireland is tiNY. Such strong opposing religious sides mashed together into an itty bitty little island is like putting vinegar and baking soda in a jar and then shaking vigorously. I think that when your ““rivals”” are so close to you, it makes matters even worse. It’s like there is that one person you dislike, and when they sit next to you in class suddenly you hate them.

It’s pure bitterness. Hatred. My guess is that there was a point in time when it was a mutual dislike that built and built and built itself into hatred. It’s an unfortunate part of being human. I guess all we can do is pray for them.
 
A good friend of mine, who is a strict Catholic, went to a Church retreat with her family and friends. During the retreat a “rival” Christian church crashed the retreat and rioted against my friend and her Church. They had picket signs and everything! They began to curse my friend (I’ll refer to her as “J”) and her family/friends for being Catholic, and even grabbed young children and told them that their parents didn’t love them because they allowed them to be Catholic! Now, I couldn’t make this up if I tried, but the Christian church then proceeded to throw used pads and other feminine products at J and her family. Riot police had to be called and brought to the scene to remove the hostile Christians. Do things like this happen often? I don’t understand HOW this could happen! J said she cried because of it, and I was sick to my stomach when she told me the entire story. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where someone has tried pushing their religion on me, and if they tried I GUESS I would understand why they would, but how could one resort to doing something like that?
Where and when did this happen?
 
Where and when did this happen?
I feel like I need to clear a few things up. I live in California, and am Irish Catholic because my family is Irish.

This happened maybe two months ago, and I believe it was in the City of Pomona
 
A good friend of mine, who is a strict Catholic, went to a Church retreat with her family and friends. During the retreat a “rival” Christian church crashed the retreat and rioted against my friend and her Church. They had picket signs and everything! They began to curse my friend (I’ll refer to her as “J”) and her family/friends for being Catholic, and even grabbed young children and told them that their parents didn’t love them because they allowed them to be Catholic! Now, I couldn’t make this up if I tried, but the Christian church then proceeded to throw used pads and other feminine products at J and her family. Riot police had to be called and brought to the scene to remove the hostile Christians. Do things like this happen often? I don’t understand HOW this could happen! J said she cried because of it, and I was sick to my stomach when she told me the entire story. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where someone has tried pushing their religion on me, and if they tried I GUESS I would understand why they would, but how could one resort to doing something like that?
They crucified Christ. And the reason why then, is the same reason they did it to these innocent people now. Rejection of Truth!
 
Dear Totherescue , I hope you take this in the well meaning way I intend it to be but I am English and I lived my first 21 years of my life with the results of the sectarian violence that was brought also to the main land. When I lived in Germany in the 80s where the IRA targeted the English ( regardless of whether they knew their faith - just because they were English ) I could be in formal attire but would never step into my car before getting down on the ground and checking under my car to see if someone had placed a bomb under it . There was even a bomb threat on the underground in London when my husband’s family from America were over for the wedding and a bomb threat at the location of our hotel and wedding reception on the very day . To distinguish yourself as Irish Catholic only highlights the sectarian division of 2 groups of people who both claimed to be Christian , which in turn highlights the very Protestant revolt in the first place. frankly it is as divisive as a southern US person flying the other flag. It also smacks against the very meaning of being Catholic which is to be one universal Church. I have never heard of someone calling themselves Polish Catholic, or German Catholic or Indian Catholic.
I would really appreciate you removing the distinction “Irish” unless you want to say Catholic - born in Ireland.
 
In case you are thinking I am being overly sensitive you might want to read the latest world news . Here is one quote from a May 4th 2014 AP report

“The episode has underscored the unrelenting hostility of some Protestants to Adams and his party’s ambitions to merge Northern Ireland into the Republic of Ireland. His departure from the police’s main interrogation center in Antrim, west of Belfast, was delayed two hours by a crowd of Protestants outside the front gate. The protesters waved Union Jack flags and held placards demanding justice for IRA victims. They roared with fury as a convoy of police armored vehicles came into view, thinking Adams’ car was in the middle.”

hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NORTHERN_IRELAND_ADAMS_ARRESTED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 
Dear Totherescue , I hope you take this in the well meaning way I intend it to be but I am English and I lived my first 21 years of my life with the results of the sectarian violence that was brought also to the main land. When I lived in Germany in the 80s where the IRA targeted the English ( regardless of whether they knew their faith - just because they were English ) I could be in formal attire but would never step into my car before getting down on the ground and checking under my car to see if someone had placed a bomb under it . There was even a bomb threat on the underground in London when my husband’s family from America were over for the wedding and a bomb threat at the location of our hotel and wedding reception on the very day . To distinguish yourself as Irish Catholic only highlights the sectarian division of 2 groups of people who both claimed to be Christian , which in turn highlights the very Protestant revolt in the first place. frankly it is as divisive as a southern US person flying the other flag. It also smacks against the very meaning of being Catholic which is to be one universal Church. I have never heard of someone calling themselves Polish Catholic, or German Catholic or Indian Catholic.
I would really appreciate you removing the distinction “Irish” unless you want to say Catholic - born in Ireland.
Do not worry, I am not offended by what you are trying to explain to me. I would like to apologize if I have offended you, or anyone else on this forum. Please believe that the last thing I would like to do is cause trouble here. I am terribly sorry for what happened to you and your family in London/Germany. I recognize what a threat the IRA was/is, and how terrorizing they were/are. My Irish ancestry goes back years beyond I can imagine, it’s where half my family comes from. I am Catholic, and my Irish Grandmother is Catholic; along with our ancestors. I have absolutely no idea whether or not my family had fought in Ireland over religion, who knows? When they came to the United States of America, the men in my family served and fought for our country in WWII and in the Korean War. To my knowledge, none of them were IRA terrorist; as they were too busy at the pearl harbor and overseas. To my understandings, I would not need to seek an “Irish church” here where I live, I can go to a normal Roman Catholic church and all would be the same. Irish Catholics are simply Roman Catholics who are either Irish or of Irish decent. I am a Roman Catholic who is Irish thanks to my father’s side of the family. I believe and follow everything a Roman Catholic does. I am not trying to disgrace my religion or any church by adding “Irish” in front of “Catholic”, I am simply stating what my religion is. I too have never hear of anyone calling themselves “Polish Catholic” or “German Catholic” and must admit it sounds rather silly. I would like to apologize once again if I have offended you, and I would like to say again that Irish Catholics are persons of the Catholic faith who Irish or of Irish decent. I don’t know if that isn’t know all over the world, but when I shared this information with my strict Catholic friends they told me: “There is no difference between Irish Catholics and Roman Catholics, you’re just Irish.”
 
I am only aware of Latin right as opposed to several other rites that all belong to the one people sometimes call the Roman Catholic Church -
I humbly suggest that you take a look around the Eastern Catholic Forum here on CAF to learn about the 22 Eastern Catholic autonomous, particular Churches that are by no means “Roman.”

This post explains it a bit more succinctly:
Rome is not the only true Christian church. There are all the Sui Generis churches of the east that are part of the world-wide Catholic Church, and then there is the Orthodox communion, which is not in full communion with the Catholic Church but has valid sacraments, and a rich spiritual and liturgical life.
I have heard the hyphenated Catholicism phrases that you used, because where I grew up was (is) a working class collection of ethnic ghettos separated first by ethnicity and then by faith; we did (still do) do identify that way, if only to find common ground with others or to share an “inside joke.”

For example, you’d see a person with Pu*** willows on Palm Sunday and know, “Polish Catholic.” You’d read the sign for the Church fair and it read, “Italian Catholic.” The Germans had two monikers, “German Catholic” and “German Lutheran,” so you’d know if you were on the same page with identifying differences and similarities. Orthodox and Ruthenians? Two Towns over.

The Irish, though, didn’t even get a ghetto to settle in in my hometown; they pooled their money and built the most ornate church to call their own. It was built across the green from the Irish and English Protestant churches of the founding families.

People who shared the same ethnicities simply lived closer together and built ethnic based places of worship. It helped us to work through issues of class distinction and underscored the value of a parochial parish funded education.

Where I grew up is still that way, and it doesn’t seem to be updating itself. Perhaps it’s just Stateside, perhaps it’s limited to just little blue collar cities in New England, but while being sensitive to your experience, I am familiar with a very different connotation to identifying (not nationality) ethnicity in conjunction with religion. It does not have any nationalistic overtones because we’re nationally American.
 
At least the unpleasant incident is a reminder to pray for Christians who forget to act like Christians. These people in their hate, rudeness. and violence, show very unchristian attitudes and behaviour.

God have mercy on them and God put love and justice into their hearts and minds.

Special prayers for the children that their faith will be strong and that they won’t succumb to doubts due to the horrible accusations thrown at them.

God bless all involved.
 
At least the unpleasant incident is a reminder to pray for Christians who forget to act like Christians. These people in their hate, rudeness. and violence, show very unchristian attitudes and behaviour.

God have mercy on them and God put love and justice into their hearts and minds.

Special prayers for the children that their faith will be strong and that they won’t succumb to doubts due to the horrible accusations thrown at them.

God bless all involved.
Thank you for your kind words and prayers, God bless you!
 
Hi Eddie,
I was at a Catholic Social Ministries retreat last weekend
and the speaker was an Irish Jesuit, he told us that Ire-
land was responsible for preserving European civilization
because the Libraries of the Catholic Monasteries in Ireland
were untouched by the invasion of the Barbarians in the
1st Century! What a pity that Ireland is also the cause of
so much destruction to the cause of Christianity, I am re-
minded of the verse in proverbs that says: "With her own
hands the foolish woman tears her house down"Prov 14:1
 
I feel like I need to clear a few things up. I live in California, and am Irish Catholic because my family is Irish.

This happened maybe two months ago, and I believe it was in the City of Pomona
Pomona? :eek: I live in Riverside,which is about 60 miles east of Pomona. I call it pure IGNORANCE!
 
Hi Eddie,
I was at a Catholic Social Ministries retreat last weekend
and the speaker was an Irish Jesuit, he told us that Ire-
land was responsible for preserving European civilization
because the Libraries of the Catholic Monasteries in Ireland
were untouched by the invasion of the Barbarians in the
1st Century! What a pity that Ireland is also the cause of
so much destruction to the cause of Christianity, I am re-
minded of the verse in proverbs that says: "With her own
hands the foolish woman tears her house down"Prov 14:1
It really is sad about what is happening/has happened in Ireland.
Pomona? :eek: I live in Riverside,which is about 60 miles east of Pomona. I call it pure IGNORANCE!
Yes, it’s scary to know that something like that happened so close to where you live isn’t it? :dts:😦
 
So sad to hear about such vile behaviour from those who claim themselves as Christians. Regardless of what side of the fence anyone sits, I will include all involved In my prayers.
 
… Do things like this happen often? I don’t understand HOW this could happen! J said she cried because of it, and I was sick to my stomach when she told me the entire story. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where someone has tried pushing their religion on me, and if they tried I GUESS I would understand why they would, but how could one resort to doing something like that?
“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
Those are some of the hardest words ever to understand properly. But as one man said, “Heaven is the feeling of complete Unity, hell that of separation.” Obviously the attacking christianists* had defined themselves as true and only followers of Christ. There is little doubt in my mind that they sincerely believed what they were saying and in what they were doing as good.

You wouldn’t do that, and neither would J, I’m sure. But anyone who distinguishes themselves by a label is separating themselves out from the rest. Is this not a world of labels? And I would hazard to guarantee that few know from the inside what another’s label means to them. I will also hazard to guarantee that anyone who adheres to any belief is convinced that they are right and few or no one else sees or understands what they do, and are wrong. The brain is wired that way. It is a survival mechanism, as is faith, or belief, itself, no matter in what. It takes a lot of work to see and understand oneself as a believing machine, regardless of the contents of those beliefs.

Don’t think so? Is “believer” a bigger category than “Muslim?” “Republican?” “Young Earther?” “Liberal?” “Liberation Theologist?” The capacity to believe is universal. What one believes is largely parochial. What a life-long Arctic dweller believes is different from a tropical islander, from a desert sweller, from a forest dweller. All beliefs are critical to where those live, and would get them killed in another environment.

But we have mental environments as well, and emotional ones. the post above demonstrates that well. In this day and age, they have far more access to each other than in the past. Is it any wonder they clash? They might be living on the same ground, but see it entirely differently. Some friends and I tried a game once: we were to walk to the end of the block and back, once on each side of the street, three times. Once, it was to be as a civil engineer looking at the infrastructure of utilities. Another, as a law officer looking for a hiding criminal. Last time as a painter or landscaper looking at the condition of properties to approach for work.

It was amazing to all of us how very different the street looked each time. Then we went and played “blind follow-the-leader.” Again a vastly different world. How different does the same world look to people who out of necessity, familial or otherwise, were brought involuntarily into a set of perceptions and values? It is literally incomprehensible. But it is very comprehensible that each believes their own story, even unto death, until they take very assiduous stock of who and what they are independent of their beliefs.

You see, we mistake the contents for the vessel. We are absolutely certain that our thoughts correspond to reality, 1/1. They cannot. We are positive that our thought trains are on the right tracks, and everyone else is stuck in the switch yard. It cannot be otherwise. We are wired to “know” that we are right, because what we see is all that we see. We don’t take into account, that similarly to seeing only less than 1% of the spectrum, we have no clue not only what is in someone else’s head, we have less clue as to what could be there. We also don’t know how pertinent that contents is or was to their surviving childhood, and how deeply it is imprinted there. Even the language one speaks makes assumptions about the structure of the world!

We don’t know what grace or shock might bring anyone to see themselves even for a second from the outside of what they believe their world to be. Argument and logic sure don’t. Having “proofs” sure doesn’t, or everyone in the world would be on the same page. Are they? Most probably never thought of sitting down and reading their own book with a bit of compassionate and non judgemental distance just to see, out of curiosity, what is there.

Many who do this come across monsters. Most retract in fear and don’t open the book again. But some have to get to the end, and are willing to go through the monsters to do that. They actually end up in another world than the one they started from, while still on Earth, usually at that same address. 🙂

So maybe those people who attacked J and her family thought they had the world by the tail because someone told them a story that for the first time in their lives made them feel right. Were they? Did that matter? I shudder when I hear stories like the one you told. I can only do one thing. I open my book and look. What story am I buying?
  • I call all “Christian” religions (40,000 of them) “christianist” because for sure, as far as I can tell, their practitioners have only little to do with Christ, as Ghandi said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top