How Debt Can Destroy a Budding Relationship

[Cat]

You do make my point very well about marital happiness depending more on being of a like mind about money than about saving or spending some particular amount. If you look at it as “our decision” and “our debt”, then you, with a mountain of debt, can not only endure much more than a couple with no debt who fight over how to use the money they’ve saved, but can be happy doing it. I think you’ll fare better than those, even on the day when the hounds close in. (Although I did say “can be”. The proof of your pudding will be seen on the day when you don’t turn on each other because the hounds have shown up.)

On that point…kudos to you! May you each be a refuge to the other, on the downhill side.

No one can ever say that their marriage is totally secure. We have seen people divorce after 41 years of marriage–very sad.

But we’ll do our best to survive and we’ll go out with great memories. Even if we end up living in Obamacamp somewhere, or in a state-run nursing home, we’ll have great memories.

The main priority at this point is to keep our health so that we can work until we die. We are both working on losing weight and eating healthy so that we can dodge the diabetes bullet. We also do as much “preventative maintenance” as possible. I hope that we are able to continue to do this once Obamacare becomes reality.

From what I’ve read in media, this is what many people in our generation plan to do–work until they die. We aren’t the only ones living under heavy debt–our generation is being called “the first generation that won’t be able to retire.” High taxes have made it very difficult for people who work to be debt-free.

 

[Cat]

Cat, I appreciate your honesty but I think you are off base. A lot of people with attitudes like yours are looking at foreclosures and bankruptcy. You may be in debt but it seems you have been able to keep your house and cars. So you are still earning more than your monthly bills, right? That’s okay for today, but what about tomorrow? How do you plan to survive retirement years?

Yes, we earn enough to make substantial payments on our debts. And we don’t really plan to retire. See my other post.

What choice do we have about our debts? What options do we have? Sell our house, move in with our very elderly parents, eat peanut butter, take up bike riding (not in our city–too much crime, and the weather is too snowy for at least six months out of the year), sell everything we own–all so that we can be “debt free?”

Why?

My husband has taken up ice dancing at the age of 50 and he loves it. He has a partner and last year they won a medal at Adult Nationals.

Should he quit? Stop doing something that he loves enough to get up at 4:30 in the morning and commute for two hours to do?

I don’t think so. Time is not on his side. By age 60, he may not be able to skate. I say, let him skate as long as he can, and have as many good experiences on the ice as he can cram in before he is too old and feeble to do it.

I don’t have an expensive hobby like he does, but I am involved in several community organizations as a volunteer. Should I un-volunteer and get a second and third job instead, and use all that money to pay off more debts? That doesn’t sound very healthy.

At this point, we make enough money that if the debts all came due, we would be able to pay them off by doing all the things I described above–sell everything including our house, stop the skating and volunteer activities, and move in with our aging parents and put our entire paychecks towards paying off debt.

But why should we do that? We’re having a great time and loving our lives. There’s a lot to be said for that.

And I don’t like peanut butter.

All I’m trying to say is that young people are probably unrealistic if they expect to stay out of debt at this time in history in the United States. As soon as you think you’re financially secure, BOOM, another tax bill is passed and you’re in the hole again. Or you lose the job that you thought was secure. Or you get sick or hurt and have to drain your health care insurance, and your rates are raised. Or your roof has to be replaced–eight thousand dollars!

Rather than walking away from each other when they are faced with debt, couples need to learn to deal with it and to keep loving each other and remain cheerful and optimistic, and not fall for grandiose debt reduction schemes that call for raising their own sheep for the wool to make their own clothes, and growing all their own food, and living in a teepee. Some Christians have written books about debt-free living that would make it almost impossible for a young couple to have any kind of fun and recreation other than walks in the park. Heaven help their children, who will not be allowed to take any kind of activities other than “freebies.” That’s no way to live.

People should learn to manage their debt so that they can enjoy activities and possessions (e.g., a car). They shouldn’t be so afraid of debt.

The couple in the OP was not married, so perhaps the one who walked did the right thing. It took my husband and I thirty years to grow so much debt. A young person with that much debt may have some shopping addictions, and that means treatment and counselling–I don’t blame a young man for wanting someone totally healthy.

But anyone who thinks that they and their future mate will never incur any financial debt is being unrealistic in this day and age.

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t know - I would think that marrying someone with $170,000 in debt and an average salary would mean that you would spend the rest of your life paying off the debt.

I don’t know whether I would want that. To pay that off in 17 years you are paying 10-15 thousand a year. You wouldn’t be able to save anything and would sentence yourself to living frugally forever, just to break even.

 

[EasterJoy]

No one can ever say that their marriage is totally secure. We have seen people divorce after 41 years of marriage–very sad.

But we’ll do our best to survive and we’ll go out with great memories. Even if we end up living in Obamacamp somewhere, or in a state-run nursing home, we’ll have great memories.

The main priority at this point is to keep our health so that we can work until we die. We are both working on losing weight and eating healthy so that we can dodge the diabetes bullet. We also do as much “preventative maintenance” as possible. I hope that we are able to continue to do this once Obamacare becomes reality.

From what I’ve read in media, this is what many people in our generation plan to do–work until they die. We aren’t the only ones living under heavy debt–our generation is being called “the first generation that won’t be able to retire.” High taxes have made it very difficult for people who work to be debt-free.

I hate to tell you this, but the total tax burden is about at the lowest level since Harry Truman was president. It is consumer spending that is at historic highs. Of course, excessive borrowing tightens the monetary supply and makes borrowing more expensive.

BTW, if you want to work until you die, you may want to pack on the pounds, take up smoking and excessive drinking, and quit using seat belts. If you get too healthy, you could live 20 or 30 years past your ability to work 40 hours a week. There gets to be a point where retirement is not voluntary.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, we earn enough to make substantial payments on our debts. And we don’t really plan to retire. See my other post.

What choice do we have about our debts? What options do we have? Sell our house, move in with our very elderly parents, eat peanut butter, take up bike riding (not in our city–too much crime, and the weather is too snowy for at least six months out of the year), sell everything we own–all so that we can be “debt free?”

Why?

My husband has taken up ice dancing at the age of 50 and he loves it. He has a partner and last year they won a medal at Adult Nationals.

Should he quit? Stop doing something that he loves enough to get up at 4:30 in the morning and commute for two hours to do?

I don’t think so. Time is not on his side. By age 60, he may not be able to skate. I say, let him skate as long as he can, and have as many good experiences on the ice as he can cram in before he is too old and feeble to do it.

I don’t have an expensive hobby like he does, but I am involved in several community organizations as a volunteer. Should I un-volunteer and get a second and third job instead, and use all that money to pay off more debts? That doesn’t sound very healthy.

At this point, we make enough money that if the debts all came due, we would be able to pay them off by doing all the things I described above–sell everything including our house, stop the skating and volunteer activities, and move in with our aging parents and put our entire paychecks towards paying off debt.

But why should we do that? We’re having a great time and loving our lives. There’s a lot to be said for that.

And I don’t like peanut butter.

All I’m trying to say is that young people are probably unrealistic if they expect to stay out of debt at this time in history in the United States. As soon as you think you’re financially secure, BOOM, another tax bill is passed and you’re in the hole again. Or you lose the job that you thought was secure. Or you get sick or hurt and have to drain your health care insurance, and your rates are raised. Or your roof has to be replaced–eight thousand dollars!

Rather than walking away from each other when they are faced with debt, couples need to learn to deal with it and to keep loving each other and remain cheerful and optimistic, and not fall for grandiose debt reduction schemes that call for raising their own sheep for the wool to make their own clothes, and growing all their own food, and living in a teepee. Some Christians have written books about debt-free living that would make it almost impossible for a young couple to have any kind of fun and recreation other than walks in the park. Heaven help their children, who will not be allowed to take any kind of activities other than “freebies.” That’s no way to live.

People should learn to manage their debt so that they can enjoy activities and possessions (e.g., a car). They shouldn’t be so afraid of debt.

The couple in the OP was not married, so perhaps the one who walked did the right thing. It took my husband and I thirty years to grow so much debt. A young person with that much debt may have some shopping addictions, and that means treatment and counselling–I don’t blame a young man for wanting someone totally healthy.

But anyone who thinks that they and their future mate will never incur any financial debt is being unrealistic in this day and age.

It isn’t the history of the United States that is to blame. It is the state of what people think they are entitled to have. You don’t have to have a lot of money to enjoy life. If you’ve never lived debt-free, don’t knock it.

 

[EasterJoy]

Rather than walking away from each other when they are faced with debt, couples need to learn to deal with it and to keep loving each other and remain cheerful and optimistic, and not fall for grandiose debt reduction schemes that call for raising their own sheep for the wool to make their own clothes, and growing all their own food, and living in a teepee. Some Christians have written books about debt-free living that would make it almost impossible for a young couple to have any kind of fun and recreation other than walks in the park. Heaven help their children, who will not be allowed to take any kind of activities other than “freebies.” That’s no way to live.

People should learn to manage their debt so that they can enjoy activities and possessions (e.g., a car). They shouldn’t be so afraid of debt.

I just cannot get my head around this part of your post. You are not managing your debt. By your account, you’re only ignoring it as it grows higher and higher and higher. Unless you have enough equity in your home to pay off your debt by down-sizing and moving somewhere with a very low cost of living, there will get to be a day when no one will loan you any more money. I don’t know what you’re going to do then.

I’m well-acquainted with the concept of sacrificing to send your kids to a good school, but sacrifice implies doing without something else you would have been able to afford, otherwise.

Aesop’s story about the grasshopper and the ant comes to mind, though. You’re going to have less than the ant, because he was at least even, with nothing. Yet the people who’ve chosen their poverty won’t sleep in the bed they’ve made. They’ll get help, and someone who had no choice about their poverty is going to get less.

Oh, well. It is your life, and you chose it knowing the risks to you and to others. I won’t change your mind, and I respect you enough as a poster on these boards to leave you alone about it. You were brave to have posted an unpopular opinion. Good luck to you.

 

[Harmony1988]

I have definite views about money and I have always made them known upfront. And my mom always says that is why I am not married at 40 !

All joking aside, I don’t think debt even begins to scratch the surface. I think spending habits are more important. For example I refuse to buy a car because I can’t afford to pay cash for one. Everyone thinks I am a nut and should just take out a loan. I disagree. I could NEVER marry a man who takes out car loans. If public transit does not go to where he works, he has a reason to buy a car. But he also has a responsibility to save up for the next car

I don’t eat out to save money. In my opinion someone who always buys their lunch to save time has their priorities in the a different place than me.

Now, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is how I see things. And unless I meet someone who sees things the way I do, a marriage would not work. I know I drop money on things others consider frivolous and don’t expect a man to see that as smart.

So in a nut shell money is one of the biggest reasons for divorce and it should be put on the table once marriage is being discerned

CM

You could never marry a man that takes a car loan?

I know it’s not good to be greedy and one should be wise about money, but there is the other extreme too…being particular TOO concerned about money and cutting costs for the sake of cutting costs.

 

[newf]

Yes, we earn enough to make substantial payments on our debts. And we don’t really plan to retire. See my other post.

What choice do we have about our debts? What options do we have? Sell our house, move in with our very elderly parents, eat peanut butter, take up bike riding (not in our city–too much crime, and the weather is too snowy for at least six months out of the year), sell everything we own–all so that we can be “debt free?”

Why?

My husband has taken up ice dancing at the age of 50 and he loves it. He has a partner and last year they won a medal at Adult Nationals.

Should he quit? Stop doing something that he loves enough to get up at 4:30 in the morning and commute for two hours to do?

I don’t think so. Time is not on his side. By age 60, he may not be able to skate. I say, let him skate as long as he can, and have as many good experiences on the ice as he can cram in before he is too old and feeble to do it.

I don’t have an expensive hobby like he does, but I am involved in several community organizations as a volunteer. Should I un-volunteer and get a second and third job instead, and use all that money to pay off more debts? That doesn’t sound very healthy.

At this point, we make enough money that if the debts all came due, we would be able to pay them off by doing all the things I described above–sell everything including our house, stop the skating and volunteer activities, and move in with our aging parents and put our entire paychecks towards paying off debt.

But why should we do that? We’re having a great time and loving our lives. There’s a lot to be said for that.

And I don’t like peanut butter.

All I’m trying to say is that young people are probably unrealistic if they expect to stay out of debt at this time in history in the United States. As soon as you think you’re financially secure, BOOM, another tax bill is passed and you’re in the hole again. Or you lose the job that you thought was secure. Or you get sick or hurt and have to drain your health care insurance, and your rates are raised. Or your roof has to be replaced–eight thousand dollars!

Rather than walking away from each other when they are faced with debt, couples need to learn to deal with it and to keep loving each other and remain cheerful and optimistic, and not fall for grandiose debt reduction schemes that call for raising their own sheep for the wool to make their own clothes, and growing all their own food, and living in a teepee. Some Christians have written books about debt-free living that would make it almost impossible for a young couple to have any kind of fun and recreation other than walks in the park. Heaven help their children, who will not be allowed to take any kind of activities other than “freebies.” That’s no way to live.

People should learn to manage their debt so that they can enjoy activities and possessions (e.g., a car). They shouldn’t be so afraid of debt.

The couple in the OP was not married, so perhaps the one who walked did the right thing. It took my husband and I thirty years to grow so much debt. A young person with that much debt may have some shopping addictions, and that means treatment and counselling–I don’t blame a young man for wanting someone totally healthy.

But anyone who thinks that they and their future mate will never incur any financial debt is being unrealistic in this day and age.

Cat, I appreciate your response to my post.

I understand that your debt seems overwhelming so you have decided to ignore it and live with it. This will only work for a short time as Easter Joy has pointed out. However, you still have time to make some changes that will help you in the long run…Don’t be like the woman in the article who was not facing her debt and then lost her fiance.

I also want to encourage younger people here not to follow your advice. I am the same age as you with 3 grown college educated daughters and I do not have the debt you have. It can be done. My husband and I live under our means. Our daughters have no student loans. And we do have a mortgage and a home equity loan which we keep and pay the minimum on each month because the interest rates are so low. We do have money saved to pay off both, however. Also, we have no credit card debt because we pay those off every month. Basically, we don’t buy what we cannot afford.

I’m not advocating raising sheep and making my own clothes and growing my own food, although there is nothing wrong with this. I live in the suburbs and like to shop for shoes. And now that we have most of our big expenses behind us, with one daughter left for whom we will buy a wedding, we now spend more on ourselves. We just practiced self control early on and now we are enjoying the fruits of our labor.

Cat, you’re the kind of lady I wish lived next door to me. You seem like a lot of fun. It’s just with the way you manage your money, I would be concerned that you wouldn’t be able to stay in the long run, your money will run out, your debts will rise and you might have to move…and that would be sad.

 

[angelerulastiel]

If someone truly loves the other; then they would not break an engagement because of mere debt.

Even a substantial debt such as that should be able to be paid off; particularily if they now have a proffessional job (which you would hope).

That said people who do longer courses should either work hard for a scholariship; or work at another job thirty or so hours a week to keep the debt down.

I just wanted to comment on this. Being in a “longer course” I want to point out the realities. There aren’t scholarships for many of the longer courses. I’ve been looking for a couple years for graduate student scholarships, and the best I can find are low interest loans.
And the longer courses also tend to be professional programs. These are VERY difficult. The programs expect that you will not work and say so and assign homework as if you weren’t working. My grades dropped from mostly As to a couple As, a couple Bs, and a C because I tried working 25 hours a week. Most of my class is working and therefore were extremely stressed after the 2nd day of class this semester because of how many assignments we had.
It is really hard to keep debt down. My goal was to graduate without debt. But even with parental help, working since I was 16, cutting out 2 years through AP classes and early admission, and going to a public college I’m probably going to have around $40,000 in debt for 5 total years of college. It is hard to keep the debt down.
But $170,000 for a photography degree is silly. I think I would consider breaking off an engagement when someone was unaware of half of their debt.

 

[Jay82]

I tend to agree with Cat’s views on debt to some extent. I don’t think debt is a bad thing if it is reasonable and managed properly. I think taking on debt for a good education is worth it.

I’m in my late 20s and have a little debt from student loans. I could pay it off straight cash in a lump sum, but the interest rate is so low that I could easily make more investing that money in other ways and just continue to make the monthly payments. Additionally, for young people, paying off ‘good debt’ like a student loan on a monthly basis is good for your credit score/history.

I feel like couples should discuss their views on finances/debt prior to marriage to ensure they are on the same page dealing with those matters cause it is very important. Taking on debt isn’t a bad thing, but there needs to be a strategy to pay it off and a complete understanding of the ROI and benefit that will be obtained from taking on the debt. If you spend 75k to remodel part of your house that will only raise the home value 10k, that may not really be a wise decision if you are planning on moving within a few years.

 

[manualman]

If I was dating, got engaged and not until THEN did she mention she was that far in debt, I’d likely walk out too. There are TWO mortal blows in there: 1. She didn’t respect him enough to let him know this important detail earlier. 2. Racking up that kind of debt with no viable means of paying it off demonstrates total irresponsibility. Marrying a totally irresponsible person is, itself, irresponsible. I suspect that most posters who are appalled that he broke it off are themselves in large debt!

Debt is simply a trap that tightens over time. The more debt you have, the harder it is to get out. I HEAR Cat. I have 3 kids in catholic school right now and we live on 1.1 income. Our two cars now have a combined 280,000 miles on them, we vacation in National Parks for about $15/night, have no cable/satellite TV and are nursing along possibly the first Pentium4 computer to be built. But it’s all paid for. True, I’m getting nervous about the cars because I’ve only got about 1/2 of ONE new one saved up for, but we just have to survive the next two years before all three kids are in full day school and we can grow to 1.33 incomes!

On the other hand, our house is 1/3 paid for, we manage to keep the 401k at 10% of earnings (since age 30) and we have no other debt. The way I figured it early on, all we had to do was pretend we were 2 years younger than we are. Stay 2 years behind our peers on lifestyle and we can do it with CASH while they do it with borrowed money. THAT’S how much difference interest payments make.

 

[Nec5]

Currently in the U.S., debt is a fact of life.

The tax code and most of our business dealings are designed to punish savings and encourage spending/debt/investment. Do what you can, but remember there’s a big ogre out there pushing you to continue spending.

As for the kind of guy that goes in debt because he wants an Escalade, well, I don’t have much sympathy for that one.

 

[EasterJoy]

It is really hard to keep debt down. My goal was to graduate without debt. But even with parental help, working since I was 16, cutting out 2 years through AP classes and early admission, and going to a public college I’m probably going to have around $40,000 in debt for 5 total years of college. It is hard to keep the debt down.
But $170,000 for a photography degree is silly. I think I would consider breaking off an engagement when someone was unaware of half of their debt.

It isn’t just the unavoidable debt incurred when most people pursue a graduate degree. That can be an investment in yourself as a future producer of support for self, family, and even charitable works. It is also reasonable, as Cat correctly puts it, to balance the taking on of debt with the pursuit of opportunities that are not easily priced and will not wait until you have the money. If you’re going to school in Berkeley, do you spend the money to go to hear the San Francisco Symphony at student rates, or do you live as close to the bone as you possibly can, knowing that the job you get later may pay well but will probably not be in a place with the same opportunities. That’s reasonable debt, but often tricky to decide how to pencil out.

I don’t think all consumer debt is a bad thing. You do have to stay realistic about how many opportunities down the road you’re trading in to get the opportunity that you’re buying with high interest right now, though. If you are borrowing in an ethical manner, IMHO, you have to have either no choice about the borrowing or else you have a very realistic reason to be confident about paying it back, as well. “I hope I’ll find the money someday” is a bit shaky, I think, particularly if you know someone else may get stuck holding the bag.

Again, this is something about which it is* vital* to have a large amount of agreement between spouses. Maybe everybody would like to be wealthy, but not everybody could have stood being married to Ross Perot in order to get there. Yet most millionaires did it the way he did: by driving a used car and doing without while putting their time and money into investments and opportunities to make money. On that side, too, there needs to be a balance that suits the couple and the family. You can find yourself in old age with plenty of money but too old to enjoy the travels or even to do some of the good your money could have paid for along the way. You can find yourself with an established business, but an unestablished relationship with your wife and children. (Not that this describes Ross Perot: as far as I know, he has been happily married for over 50 years and is in fine standing with his family.)

These are decisions that take prudence, but they don’t have a single right answer.

 

[EasterJoy]

The way I figured it early on, all we had to do was pretend we were 2 years younger than we are. Stay 2 years behind our peers on lifestyle and we can do it with CASH while they do it with borrowed money. THAT’S how much difference interest payments make.

I think this is very smart.

 

[St_Francis]

The thing that this article made me realize is this: that student debt and other debt can really affect marriage plans. If a young lady has a lot of debt, then she might have to postpone starting a family until she is much older; she could end up tied to the work to pay off the education for it.

So, some student debt makes sense, because that is an investment, even for a woman. But debt from law school or similar seems a little over the top, because then you’re not going to be able to start a family at a younger age.

By the same token, the same can be said about young men and their debts; it’s just that their student debts are still financially benefitting the family.

I can certainly see why in the olden days it was boys who were sent to school!

 

[EasterJoy]

The thing that this article made me realize is this: that student debt and other debt can really affect marriage plans. If a young lady has a lot of debt, then she might have to postpone starting a family until she is much older; she could end up tied to the work to pay off the education for it.

So, some student debt makes sense, because that is an investment, even for a woman. But debt from law school or similar seems a little over the top, because then you’re not going to be able to start a family at a younger age.

By the same token, the same can be said about young men and their debts; it’s just that their student debts are still financially benefitting the family.

I can certainly see why in the olden days it was boys who were sent to school!

You shouldn’t assume that a man has the ability to either obtain or to make more money from an advanced degree than a woman does, even with time more time off for her for child-bearing. The ability to get a JD, an MD, or a PhD isn’t to be found in everyone, and neither is the desire or the ability to build a career on it.

Boys were sent to school in the “olden days” because boys could get jobs.

Once a couple has debt, it hardly matters whose education it paid for. It is the amount of the combined debt and the combined ability to pay for it that is taken into account by the couple when deciding if they can take on a mortgage or how many children they can support. In many cases, it works out better for her to finish her education before having children than to try to complete it while the kids are also in school. If she doesn’t get it at all, then that can be penny wise and pound foolish, as well.

 

[faithfully]

I have definite views about money and I have always made them known upfront. And my mom always says that is why I am not married at 40 !

All joking aside, I don’t think debt even begins to scratch the surface. I think spending habits are more important. For example I refuse to buy a car because I can’t afford to pay cash for one. Everyone thinks I am a nut and should just take out a loan. I disagree. I could NEVER marry a man who takes out car loans. If public transit does not go to where he works, he has a reason to buy a car. But he also has a responsibility to save up for the next car

I don’t eat out to save money. In my opinion someone who always buys their lunch to save time has their priorities in the a different place than me.

Now, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is how I see things. And unless I meet someone who sees things the way I do, a marriage would not work. I know I drop money on things others consider frivolous and don’t expect a man to see that as smart.

So in a nut shell money is one of the biggest reasons for divorce and it should be put on the table once marriage is being discerned

CM

I can’t imagine putting cash down on a car with today’s interest rates, and the fact that the car depreciates the second you drive it off the lot. Even if I had adequate cash. I’d have that cash working for me… earning me interest beyond what I’d be paying on the car. I also don’t have a problem buying a used car. Or a car that gets great mileage. I’m not into BMW’s for image, or the constant visit to the shop. In fact plenty of people use their car for business… their entire payment is a write of. I’d actually work the numbers to come up with the best case scenario. I wouldn’t just make a rule and hold to. More into the actual analysis of the money and its potential for growth and such. Than an emotional idea. It’s kind of like our our grandparents were all about owning their homes as quickly as possible. Which in their time made sense. A note could be called whenever. Today that’s not the case. Short of failure to pay. And of course, we are seeing people lose their homes because the industry convinced them they could afford more than they could, with interest only etc… all emotional choices, not based on any actual real probably circumstances…

nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html

The article mentions that many prospective couples haven’t discussed common scenarios such as the birth of a child, and whether one of them will stay home afterward. And I know that was true for my own marriage.

In the two situation presented it seems:
Woman 1: Debt - 175,000, Degree - Bachelors in Photography, Upfront/Responsible - No
Woman 2: Debt - 250,000, Degree - Masters Emergency Room Medicine, Upfront/Responsible - Yes

It makes sense to me why the guy broke up with Woman 1. For a Bachelor’s Degree in Photography no less and $175,000! in debt. That is very irresponsible in today’s economy. And granted you shouldn’t be expected to disclose your debt on your first date but I can see how something like that is a deal-breaker.

As the saying goes, there are plenty of fish in the sea. God put many marriage-able people out there for a reason, not just a single particular person out there; there are so many great people out there to choose. If your willing and able to take on the debt, great; but you shouldn’t judge too harshly one who is not.

I’m trying to figure out what school you are attending, and majoring in Photography, racking $170k. I don’t even think The Academy of Fine Arts in SF would be anywhere near as expensive. How on EARTH you don’t know what you’re borrowing semester to semster, and you aren’t building a career in such an ART is beyond me. Is she utterly talentless?

She could be making at least $500.00 a weekend on weddings alone and that would be CHEAP in the bay…

I suspect the boyfriend was suprised, because WHO THE HECK pays that much for that? That’s like paying $60,000 for a used honda civic… makes no sense…