How did Elijah get into Heaven?

[Charlotte408]

A couple of questions, that sort of go hand in hand…

Jesus descended into hell to ‘make a proclamation’ to the souls in prison, right?

Proclamation is to make an announcement. I looked up the verse (1 Peter 3:18-20) in the KJV to see if it was a language thing, and the word it used was ‘preached’.

Am I correct in my understanding that no souls were allowed into Heaven before Jesus came, and that He had descended into hell to *free *them?

And if so, then how was Elijah taken up in a whirlwind to Heaven on a chariot?

 

[thistle]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

2 Kings 2:1,11

Ver. 1. Heaven. By heaven here is meant, the air, the lowest of the heavenly regions, (Challoner) through which he was carried by the ministry of angels, who directed the storm, (Haydock ) to the place designed for him. — It is generally supposed to be Paradise, (Calmet) whither Henoch had been translated. (Haydock) — They are still living, (Calmet) and must come again, to invite all to repent. After which they will die martyrs, in the persecution of Antichrist. (Haydock) — See St. Augustine, de Gen. ad lit. ix. 6., and Apocalypse xi. (Worthington) — Ecclesiasticus xlviii. 10. (Menochius) — They are a proof of a future resurrection. (Calmet) — To decide where the paradise which they inhabit, (Haydock) is situated. would be rash. (St. Chrysostom, hom. 21. in Gen. &c.) Some suppose it is still in some unknown region of the earth: others place it above the sky, (Menochius) or in the bosom of Abraham. (Calmet) — The Jews (following Munster) assert that Elias penetrated the sphere of fire, where his body was consumed. (Vatable) — The earthly paradise is very probably no longer existing, in its ancient luxuriant state. (Haydock) — It may now be covered with the waters of the Persian Gulf. (Worthington)

Ver. 11. Horses. Angels assumed these forms, (Grotius) or a cloud, resembling a fiery chariot and horses, was impelled by a strong wind, under their guidance. (Tostat) (Menochius) (Salien, the year before Christ 914.) — As the name of Elias is very like Helios, “the sun,” some have supposed that hey have the same meaning: (Sedulius, pasc. 1.) but the Hebrew term signifies, “He is my God.” The pagans have taken occasion from this history to represent the sun drawn in a fiery chariot, by horses composed of the same element.

Animosos ignibus illis,

Quos in pectore habent, quos ore & naribus efflant. (Ovid, Metam. xii.) (Calmet)

— Heaven; (see ver. 1.) where he lives free from all disturbance. (Tirinus) — It is a constant, that he will come again before the last judgment; as his representative, John the Baptist, announced the first appearance of our Redeemer. (St. Gregory, hom. 7. in Ev.) Of this the Jews were convinced. (St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho) See Malachias iv. 5.

 

[Willy_Jose]

I believe Elijah was taken up into Abraham’s Bosom (or ‘paradise’ in the OT). It is not yet the Heaven of the New Testament but rather a holding place where the prophets (or righteous) in the OT are comforted, awaiting Jesus triumph on the cross. Abraham’s bosom (see Lazarus and the Rich Man) was the “hell” (or the other half of Sheol) where Jesus went down and proclaimed that the gates of heaven were opened. Abraham, Eljah, Moses were there (see Transfiguration). Yes, they were ‘freed’. I am not very eloquent in explaining this maybe someone else will.

 

[Charlotte408]

I believe Elijah was taken up into Abraham’s Bosom (or ‘paradise’ in the OT). It is not yet the Heaven of the New Testament but rather a holding place where the prophets (or righteous) in the OT are comforted, awaiting Jesus triumph on the cross. Abraham’s bosom (see Lazarus and the Rich Man) was the “hell” (or the other half of Sheol) where Jesus went down and proclaimed that the gates of heaven were opened. Abraham, Eljah, Moses were there (see Transfiguration). Yes, they were ‘freed’. I am not very eloquent in explaining this maybe someone else will.

Yeah…no, sorry I still don’t get it I’m sorry…

 

[thistle]

Yeah…no, sorry I still don’t get it I’m sorry…

You asked how Elijah got to Heaven. He didn’t (at the time of the whirlwind). He was taken to what is called Abraham’s Bosom from where all there waiting were released by Jesus then taken to Heaven.

 

[Willy_Jose]

Here is a good explanation

cicdc.org/articles/saunder_elijah.htm

 

[Charlotte408]

Thank you! That was a good read and gave me a much better understanding

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Has anyone heard about Elijah and Enoch coming back in the time of AntiChrist to point him out and the Anti Christ will kill them?

Is this in the Bible?

 

[thistle]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Revelation 11:

Ver. 3. My two witnesses…shall prophesy twelve hundred and sixty days. It is a very common interpretation, that by these two witnesses must be understood Henoch[Enoch] and Elias[Elijah], who are to come before the end of the world. It is true this is what we read in several of the ancient Fathers, insomuch, that Dr. Wells, in his paraphrase, calls it the “consent of the primitive fathers,” and in his notes says, it is of “unexceptionable authority.” This opinion (at least as to Elias) is grounded on those words of the prophet Malachy, (Malachias iv. 5.) behold, I will send you Elias, the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord; and also on the words of our Saviour, Christ, (Matthew xvii. 11.) where he tells his disciples: Elias indeed shall come, and restore all things. But I cannot say that the consent of the fathers is so unanimous as to Henoch: for we find by St. Hilary, that some thought Jeremy[Jeremiah] was to come with Elias, and he himself thought that with Elias would come Moses. See his commentary on Matt., p. 710, Nov. edit. Secondly, allowing it a received opinion that Henoch and Elias are again to come before the day of judgment, yet it is not the constant doctrine of the ancient fathers, that by these two witnesses in this place of the Apocalypse, must be understood Henoch and Elias. St. Cyprian expounds it of two sorts of martyrs for the Catholic faith; to wit, they who suffer death, and others who only suffered imprisonment, loss of goods, and the like. Others expound it of the testimonies concerning Christ and his Church, of which some are in the Old Testament, some in the New. To these we must join all those interpreters who expound all the visions and predictions in the Apocalypse, till the 20th chapter, of the persecutions raised by the Jews: or by the heathens against the Church, which have already happened. Of these, both as to ancient fathers and later interpreters, see Alcazar in his Prologomena, note 6, p. 33, and note 12, p. 48. (Witham) — Two witnesses. It is commonly understood of Henoch and Elias. (Challoner)

Ver. 7. The beast, &c. God, for the greater good and glory of his servants, permits the devil by antichrist, and such like instruments, to torment them, and put them to death; and yet by dying they conquer, to the eternal confusion of their persecutors, who shall behold them going up to heaven, to be there happy with God in his kingdom for ever. (Witham) — Antichrist, impelled by Satan, shall kill them. (Pastorini)

 

[Charlotte408]

So I just busted out my bible and in the footnotes it’s saying that in Malachi where it says Elijah is coming back, that Jews take it literally and Jesus declares this fullfilled in John the Baptist…so…isn’t that sort of like reincarnation?

 

[John7]

So I just busted out my bible and in the footnotes it’s saying that in Malachi where it says Elijah is coming back, that Jews take it literally and Jesus declares this fullfilled in John the Baptist…so…isn’t that sort of like reincarnation?

Doesn’t say in Malachi how he’d come back,
only that he’d somehow come back,
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before
the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
we find the answer to how he’d come back in the NT,
and its not reincarnation. John would come in Elijah’s power and spirit,
not in his flesh form.

Luk 1:17 And he (John the Baptist) shall go before him
(Christ) in the spirit and power of Elijah,
to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient
to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

[Charlotte408]

Doesn’t say in Malachi how he’d come back,
only that he’d somehow come back,
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before
the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
we find the answer to how he’d come back in the NT,
and its not reincarnation. John would come in Elijah’s power and spirit,
not in his flesh form.

Luk 1:17 And he (John the Baptist) shall go before him
(Christ) in the spirit and power of Elijah,
to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient
to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Yeah but even then I can see how someone can take that as reincarnation. I think the basic idea of reincarnation, is that the soul/spirit comes back, but in different forms…((not that I need to tell you or anyone else on here this I’m sure your much more educated on it than I)) but that seems to be basically what it’s saying.

Except, I think, that with reincarnation, the soul/spirit doesn’t remember their previous life and maintain that constant state of being just themselves. Perhaps that would be the difference?

 

[thistle]

So I just busted out my bible and in the footnotes it’s saying that in Malachi where it says Elijah is coming back, that Jews take it literally and Jesus declares this fullfilled in John the Baptist…so…isn’t that sort of like reincarnation?

Doesn’t reincarnation imply the body has died first. In the case of Enoch and Elijah they did not die.

 

[centurionguard]

Yeah but even then I can see how someone can take that as reincarnation. I think the basic idea of reincarnation, is that the soul/spirit comes back, but in different forms…((not that I need to tell you or anyone else on here this I’m sure your much more educated on it than I)) but that seems to be basically what it’s saying.

Except, I think, that with reincarnation, the soul/spirit doesn’t remember their previous life and maintain that constant state of being just themselves. Perhaps that would be the difference?

No; reincarnation doesn’t even enter into the equation if you study scripture which says neither Enoch or Elias/Elijah never died.

It is certain that neither Enoch and Elias are dead. It is written in Gen. (5:22-24) Enoch walked with God and disappeared. Enoch, according to wise men in Gen; was pleasing to God, who placed him in paradise. Eccelsiasticus (44:16). And Saint Paul himself says that Enoch was removed, that he might not see death (Heb. (11:5). Scripture is still more explicit relative to Elias/Elijah. He is said to have been walking in the company with Eliseus on the banks of the Jordon when he was carried off in a fiery chariot to heaven. 4 Kings (2:11). Eccelsiasticus (48:9) and Machabees (Book 1, 2:58)), allude to the same fact. All the Church Father in perfect accord on this point and teach it as apostolic tradition; Eg. Saint Ireneus (Lib 4. c.30).

The disciples of the Apostles say those who were carried off from this world otherwise than by death were placed in a terrestrial paradise and they will remain there until the end times of the world in an incorruptible state. In the Life story of Saint Catherine Emmerick as with Saint Hildegarde give prophetic testimony about the existence of Enoch and Elias during end times as one will help the Gentiles in exceeding difficult times and the other disciple will be given the task to covert numerous Jews. Catholic Theologians assign many reasons for the single favor that God has with these two biblical figures.

They maintain that God desired to show by the preservation of these two men during so many centuries, the possibility of the indefinite permanence of man upon the earth and to confirm our faith in the resurrection of the body, for, as the sequel that follows in end times will show, these two men shall die martyrs, and rise again in the Last Judgment.

 

[beehumble]

So I just busted out my bible and in the footnotes it’s saying that in Malachi where it says Elijah is coming back, that Jews take it literally and Jesus declares this fullfilled in John the Baptist…so…isn’t that sort of like reincarnation?

No.

The Bible says that someone will come who will preach* in the spirit and power of Elijah*, not be the actual Elijah. Elijah thus is a type for John the Baptist. And there is another “Elijah” who is to come, too, before the Second Coming. Again, this will be somebody preaching in the spirit and power of Elijah, not actually be Elijah.

God bless you.

 

[jcrichton]

A couple of questions, that sort of go hand in hand…

Jesus descended into hell to ‘make a proclamation’ to the souls in prison, right?

Proclamation is to make an announcement. I looked up the verse (1 Peter 3:18-20) in the KJV to see if it was a language thing, and the word it used was ‘preached’.

Am I correct in my understanding that no souls were allowed into Heaven before Jesus came, and that He had descended into hell to *free *them?

And if so, then how was Elijah taken up in a whirlwind to Heaven on a chariot?

…the problem with that premise is that it determines for God how God has to behave…

There’s no Biblical proof that before the Word’s Incarnation no Creature entered Heaven… quite to the contrary, we have two very specific examples… you’ve cited Elijah and there’s that ole friend of God, Enoch, who was taken into Heaven… did they enter Heaven bodily (flesh and blood) or was there a change (as with Jesus’ Transfiguration where Elijah and Moses, also transfigured, appeared) as will happen in the end (which was also demonstrated by Jesus in His Glorified Body at His Resurrection)?

We are limited by our finite understanding of God… but Yahweh God is not limited by our limitations!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Has anyone heard about Elijah and Enoch coming back in the time of AntiChrist to point him out and the Anti Christ will kill them?

Is this in the Bible?

…the book of Apocalypse mentions that there will be the two witnesses (Apocalypse 11:3-14); though it is not clear… it seems more to represent Moses and Elijah, perhaps, as John the Baptist, the precursors of the End of Times.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[TimothyH]

If God is ouside of time, is not heaven outside of time as well?

If so, Elijiah getting into heaven “Before” Jesus opened the gates of heaven would become a moot point, no?

Just asking. I seem to recall a thread on whether heaven was outside of time.

-Tim-

 

[jcrichton]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Revelation 11:

Ver. 3. My two witnesses…shall prophesy twelve hundred and sixty days. It is a very common interpretation, that by these two witnesses must be understood Henoch[Enoch] and Elias[Elijah], who are to come before the end of the world. It is true this is what we read in several of the ancient Fathers, insomuch, that Dr. Wells, in his paraphrase, calls it the “consent of the primitive fathers,” and in his notes says, it is of “unexceptionable authority.” This opinion (at least as to Elias) is grounded on those words of the prophet Malachy, (Malachias iv. 5.) behold, I will send you Elias, the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord; and also on the words of our Saviour, Christ, (Matthew xvii. 11.) where he tells his disciples: Elias indeed shall come, and restore all things. But I cannot say that the consent of the fathers is so unanimous as to Henoch: for we find by St. Hilary, that some thought Jeremy[Jeremiah] was to come with Elias, and he himself thought that with Elias would come Moses. See his commentary on Matt., p. 710, Nov. edit. Secondly, allowing it a received opinion that Henoch and Elias are again to come before the day of judgment, yet it is not the constant doctrine of the ancient fathers, that by these two witnesses in this place of the Apocalypse, must be understood Henoch and Elias. St. Cyprian expounds it of two sorts of martyrs for the Catholic faith; to wit, they who suffer death, and others who only suffered imprisonment, loss of goods, and the like. Others expound it of the testimonies concerning Christ and his Church, of which some are in the Old Testament, some in the New. To these we must join all those interpreters who expound all the visions and predictions in the Apocalypse, till the 20th chapter, of the persecutions raised by the Jews: or by the heathens against the Church, which have already happened. Of these, both as to ancient fathers and later interpreters, see Alcazar in his Prologomena, note 6, p. 33, and note 12, p. 48. (Witham) — Two witnesses. It is commonly understood of Henoch and Elias. (Challoner)

Ver. 7. The beast, &c. God, for the greater good and glory of his servants, permits the devil by antichrist, and such like instruments, to torment them, and put them to death; and yet by dying they conquer, to the eternal confusion of their persecutors, who shall behold them going up to heaven, to be there happy with God in his kingdom for ever. (Witham) — Antichrist, impelled by Satan, shall kill them. (Pastorini)

…but Jesus did not say that Elijah will come at the end of times… He stated that Elijah did come–hence they understood that He was speaking about John the Baptist!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

So I just busted out my bible and in the footnotes it’s saying that in Malachi where it says Elijah is coming back, that Jews take it literally and Jesus declares this fullfilled in John the Baptist…so…isn’t that sort of like reincarnation?

…not quite… the idea of reincarnation is that an entity whose termporal existence has expired refuses to let go and through some manipulation of the will either subdues or excices another entitity at the moment of its birth (which suggests that the spiritual merges with the flesh at birth); Elijah’s case is different since it was Yahweh God’s determination that he would come back as John the Baptist: there’s no extinction or supression of the rightfull owner of John the Baptist’s corporal vessel.

Maran atha!

Angel