How did Elijah get into Heaven?

[beehumble]

…but Jesus did not say that Elijah will come at the end of times… He stated that Elijah did come–hence they understood that He was speaking about John the Baptist!

Maran atha!

Angel

[Jesus] said in reply, “Elijah will indeed come and restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. Matthew 17:11-13

Malachi 3:2 and Malachi 3:23 indicate Elijah will come before the Last Day, which is the Second Coming and thus provides support to the first part of what Jesus said above, “Elijah will indeed come…”

Jesus implies that the Malachi prophesy means Elijah will come twice - once before His first coming (He identifies John the Baptist as this first “Elijah”) and once again before His second coming.

A person in the spirit and power of Elijah (and also in the spirit and power of John the Baptist) is expected before the Second Coming to prepare the way before He returns.

God bless you.

 

[jcrichton]

If God is ouside of time, is not heaven outside of time as well?

If so, Elijiah getting into heaven “Before” Jesus opened the gates of heaven would become a moot point, no?

Just asking. I seem to recall a thread on whether heaven was outside of time.

-Tim-

…and the only Scriptural passage that speaks on this issue is Jesus’ revelation that no “man” (Enoch and Elijah could very well have been changed–1Cor 15:52-55) has entered Heaven but He that came from Heaven… which, incidentally, opens the conundrum: is Jesus attesting that He is True God and true man, existing both in the temporal and Spiritual realms since at the time of His statement He had not been martyred nor Resurrected?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

[Jesus] said in reply, “Elijah will indeed come and restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. Matthew 17:11-13

Malachi 3:2 and Malachi 3:23 indicate Elijah will come before the Last Day, which is the Second Coming and thus provides support to the first part of what Jesus said above, “Elijah will indeed come…”

Jesus implies that the Malachi prophesy means Elijah will come twice - once before His first coming (He identifies John the Baptist as this first “Elijah”) and once again before His second coming.

A person in the spirit and power of Elijah (and also in the spirit and power of John the Baptist) is expected before the Second Coming to prepare the way before He returns.

God bless you.

…got you; I thought that you were inferring that Jesus spoke of Elijah coming at the end of times… muting the fact that Jesus pointed to John the Baptist as Elijah…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Willy_Jose]

No; reincarnation doesn’t even enter into the equation if you study scripture which says neither Enoch or Elias/Elijah never died.

It is certain that neither Enoch and Elias are dead. It is written in Gen. (5:22-24) Enoch walked with God and disappeared. Enoch, according to wise men in Gen; was pleasing to God, who placed him in paradise. Eccelsiasticus (44:16). And Saint Paul himself says that Enoch was removed, that he might not see death (Heb. (11:5). Scripture is still more explicit relative to Elias/Elijah. He is said to have been walking in the company with Eliseus on the banks of the Jordon when he was carried off in a fiery chariot to heaven. 4 Kings (2:11). Eccelsiasticus (48:9) and Machabees (Book 1, 2:58)), allude to the same fact. All the Church Father in perfect accord on this point and teach it as apostolic tradition; Eg. Saint Ireneus (Lib 4. c.30).

The disciples of the Apostles say those who were carried off from this world otherwise than by death were placed in a terrestrial paradise and they will remain there until the end times of the world in an incorruptible state. In the Life story of Saint Catherine Emmerick as with Saint Hildegarde give prophetic testimony about the existence of Enoch and Elias during end times as one will help the Gentiles in exceeding difficult times and the other disciple will be given the task to covert numerous Jews. Catholic Theologians assign many reasons for the single favor that God has with these two biblical figures.

They maintain that God desired to show by the preservation of these two men during so many centuries, the possibility of the indefinite permanence of man upon the earth and to confirm our faith in the resurrection of the body, for, as the sequel that follows in end times will show, these two men shall die martyrs, and rise again in the Last Judgment.

It appears this is a permissible view among faithful Catholics. The other view is that Elijah and Enoch were taken instead to Abraham’s bosom - a faithful view likewise (as CCC 633 do not state exceptions). Both view don’t jibe (although both do not contradict Catholic doctrine) — so it appears the Magisterium has not definitively stated either way.

 

[centurionguard]

It appears this is a permissible view among faithful Catholics. The other view is that Elijah and Enoch were taken instead to Abraham’s bosom - a faithful view likewise (as CCC 633 do not state exceptions). Both view don’t jibe (although both do not contradict Catholic doctrine) — so it appears the Magisterium has not definitively stated either way.

Not as a matter of argument for argument sake but I think that the supernatural domain reserved for those whom rest in Abraham’s bosom is different than the supernatural domain of paradise from which Adam and Eve were expelled.

Both Saint Augustine and Saint Hildegarde claim that Paradise still exists. When Adam and Eve were expelled from paradise, angelic walls of light (Cherubim) were raised entirely around it, and Divine Power effaced from it all marks of Adam and Eve’s sin. Paradise still exists, a region of joy, blooming in all pristine loveliness, and imparting abundant fruitfulness to the sterile earth. (That is) capable of more than one interpretation due to its supernatural domain protected by God’s angels. It is even thought by some theologians and Saints to still exist here on earth but purposely shrouded by man’s detection.
Also because the angelic protection of Paradise is a supernatural domain (time itself) is not relative to its existence.

 

[beehumble]

…got you; I thought that you were inferring that Jesus spoke of Elijah coming at the end of times… muting the fact that Jesus pointed to John the Baptist as Elijah…

Maran atha!

Angel

Not sure what you mean. Maybe I wasn’t clear.

The actual prophet Elijah does not come.

Elijah serves as a ‘type’ (see typology in the CCC if not sure what this means) for both John the Baptist and for somebody else who will come as a messenger preaching repentance because the Lord is about to arrive. John the Baptist was the anti-typical Elijah heralding the first coming (the Gospel says so); somebody else will serve as the anti-typical Elijah heralding the second coming (and this second anti-typical Elijah is also an anti-typical John the Baptist - in other words, the Baptist serves as a type for them, as does Elijah).

Jesus basically said: the type for Elijah WILL COME (second coming), and HAS COME (first coming - John the Baptist).

God bless you.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

i don’t have any proof for this but I always thought that Enoch and Elijah lived in Heaven but just outside the gates of Heaven–in other words Heaven has more than one level–St. Paul speaks of a man being caught up to the third heaven.

I like to think that they lived just outside the gates that Jesus opened when he ascended into heaven. They might not have followed him into the heavenly Jerusalem because in the future they would be the two witnesses spoke of in Revelation.

In any event they were on some level of Heaven–but not the level where Jesus opened the gates.

 

[A_G]

Elijah may have been taken to Sheol. Specifically, the bosom of Abraham because this is where the just souls were comforted until the resurrection.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The bible says that Elijah went to heaven on a fiery chariot–what happened–did it go up to heaven–make a U turn–and wind up in Sheol? Does that make sense?

The bible also says about Enoch that “God took him”. where did God take him to?

I think there has to be a place outside of sheol–at the very gates of heaven–but not quite through the gates that Christ opened.

Is such a thing possible?

 

[Nelka]

I think there has to be a place outside of sheol–at the very gates of heaven–but not quite through the gates that Christ opened.

Is such a thing possible?

Anything is possible for God.

 

[jcrichton]

The bible says that Elijah went to heaven on a fiery chariot–what happened–did it go up to heaven–make a U turn–and wind up in Sheol? Does that make sense?

The bible also says about Enoch that “God took him”. where did God take him to?

I think there has to be a place outside of sheol–at the very gates of heaven–but not quite through the gates that Christ opened.

Is such a thing possible?

…I think that there are basic forms that we understand (corporeal/temporal) with infinite detail… some that we barely understand, even when we study them intricately… then there’s the Spiritual… Yahweh God’s Way is not our ways… so are many Scriptural Revelations… I tend to be simplistic: God say so, I Believe so… the end!

There are passages that tend to be confusing if we view them from our finite knowledge and understanding… the third Heaven… could this not be St. Paul’s attempt to explain that he was not a temporal environment?

ie: Jesus’ Word to one of the crimininals crucified with Him… Today, with Me, Paradise!

Did they both not die?

Where would Paradise be found?

Did Jesus, as Yahweh God in the Garden of Eden, spoke about a Spiritual reality that was hidden in a temporal one? Jesus is God so He could not have lied and the Promise is exceedingly eminent: today! …how to reconcile the Teachings about Resurrection, Salvation and Ascension?.. well… there are hints: God’s Way is not our ways and God is Eternal, Existing both in Time and out of Time… Omniscient and Omnipresent… able to expand and contract Time as He determines it… so it could very well be that Jesus did take the repentive man, Spiritually, to Heaven at the time of their temporal death or it could be that He Saved him at that very instant and thus the “new” man could no longer die, Spiritually, but would forever Exist in Jesus or it could be that in that nano-second after his earthly existence ceased he was pushed forward into Time as he entered God’s Salvific Existence to be gathered, as St. Paul’s revelation, with the rest of the Believers at the Parousia… as St. John tells us… Then, we will see Him as He Is!

Maran atha!

Angel