How did it happen?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bbarrick8383
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bbarrick8383

Guest
Reading through the scriptures of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John I noticed that the resurrection of Jesus is described in four completely different ways. None of them were actually there right? They all say that the Mary and some other women were the first to see the tomb open, so why do they each tell a different story?
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Reading through the scriptures of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John I noticed that the resurrection of Jesus is described in four completely different ways. None of them were actually there right? They all say that the Mary and some other women were the first to see the tomb open, so why do they each tell a different story?
Click to expand...
Do they really? I don’t think so.
John mentions Mary Magdalene; she says then ‘We don’t know where…’ implying plural women. Discrepancies in Scripture, especially in the Gospels, is usually due to a remembrance of one thing over another, thus the Gospels compliment each other over missing information.
Pax, Ioseph
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Reading through the scriptures of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John I noticed that the resurrection of Jesus is described in four completely different ways. None of them were actually there right? They all say that the Mary and some other women were the first to see the tomb open, so why do they each tell a different story?
Click to expand...
Please explain what you mean. How are they different?
 
Reading through my RSV-CE, it sounds like 4 completely different stories.

Mathew
1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,[a] and sat on it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.
5 But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you.”
8 So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

Mark
1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?” 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away—for it was very large. 5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.
6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him. 7 But go, tell His disciples—and Peter—that He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him, as He said to you.”
8 So they went out quickly[a] and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
 
Just in those two accounts alone, the first describes an earthquake and an angel sitting on the stone that blocked the tomb.

In Marks version, he does not say anything about an earthquake, gives a little more detailed event of what the two Mary’s were doing that morning and says the stone was already rolled away when they arrived. There was a “man” sitting on the table inside the tomb who says the same thing as the “Angel” in Mathews story.
 
Luke

1 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a] came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it happened, as they were greatly** perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. 5 Then, as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, 7 saying, ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.’”
8 And they remembered His words. 9 Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles. 11 And their words seemed to them like idle tales, and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter arose and ran to the tomb; and stooping down, he saw the linen cloths lying[c] by themselves; and he departed, marveling to himself at what had happened.

Lukes version does not speak of an earthquake either, and yet the story changes about the men again. This time there are two of them. In all three accounts the only two people who are consistent are the two Mary’s.**
 
once again, they all have some similarities.
  1. Jesus rises from the dead.
  2. Mary Magdalene is there, w/some other women
  3. It was sometime in the morning, whether down or after sunrise.
  4. Angels are there.
See? Some things are different, but like I said, they compliment each other, or the writer-dare I say it- forgot something, and inserted something, such as the time of day, because he felt that it wasn’t the most important part. To the early Christians, the resurrection was very real and happened, so a detail like time of day, they could care less about. I am of the opinion that Scripture is divinely inspired, but no the point it is a complete history book. Its first job is to teach faith, not world exact history.
Pax
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Just in those two accounts alone, the first describes an earthquake and an angel sitting on the stone that blocked the tomb.

In Marks version, he does not say anything about an earthquake, gives a little more detailed event of what the two Mary’s were doing that morning and says the stone was already rolled away when they arrived. There was a “man” sitting on the table inside the tomb who says the same thing as the “Angel” in Mathews story.
Click to expand...
Sorry about the late reply.

The gospels don’t report any same events. They don’t all report all the parables or miracles, especially the Gospel of John. They are each meant for a specific audience, and so, they differ in how they’re styled. But they each report the historical works of Jesus, one of which is the Resurrection. The gospels, in the details they give, compliment one another in giving the details of Jesus’ life. This is also so for the Resurrection. So, the gospel of Mark names many of the women, while the gospel of Matthew just names one woman and says there were others with her; Matthew says there is an earthquake, but Mark says there isn’t one. The gospels enlighten and compliement one another in the details. It is why the Church chose these four specific gospels - out of hundreds of thousands of gospels that were being circulated throughout the world - to be included in the Canon of the Scripture. By the way, the Canon of the Scriptures was born from the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. 🙂
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
once again, they all have some similarities.
  1. Jesus rises from the dead.
  2. Mary Magdalene is there, w/some other women
  3. It was sometime in the morning, whether down or after sunrise.
  4. Angels are there.
See? Some things are different, but like I said, they compliment each other, or the writer-dare I say it- forgot something, and inserted something, such as the time of day, because he felt that it wasn’t the most important part. To the early Christians, the resurrection was very real and happened, so a detail like time of day, they could care less about. I am of the opinion that Scripture is divinely inspired, but no the point it is a complete history book. Its first job is to teach faith, not world exact history.
Pax
Click to expand...
John

1 Now the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
3 Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb. 4 So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first. 5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. 10 Then the disciples went away again to their own homes.

John makes it sound as if Mary was alone. Something else that is confusing, did Jesus not tell them that on the third day he would rise? In verse 9 it says they did not know the Scripture that he would rise again.
 
Eucharisted said:
Sorry about the late reply.

The gospels don’t report any same events. They don’t all report all the parables or miracles, especially the Gospel of John. They are each meant for a specific audience, and so, they differ in how they’re styled. But they each report the historical works of Jesus, one of which is the Resurrection. The gospels, in the details they give, compliment one another in giving the details of Jesus’ life. This is also so for the Resurrection. So, the gospel of Mark names many of the women, while the gospel of Matthew just names one woman and says there were others with her; Matthew says there is an earthquake, but Mark says there isn’t one. The gospels enlighten and compliement one another in the details. It is why the Church chose these four specific gospels - out of hundreds of thousands of gospels that were being circulated throughout the world - to be included in the Canon of the Scripture. By the way, the Canon of the Scriptures was born from the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. 🙂
Click to expand...
I’m doing my best to clear this up in my head, it just seems weird to me. If several people are trying to give an account of something as important as Jesus rising from the dead, they should all at least describe it in a similar fashion. Either the earthquake happened or it did not happen. Either there was one Angel or there were two, and how come they do not report the Angels as being in the same spot. It just does not make sense. In Mathew the Angel sitting on the stone says the same thing as the Angel sitting on the table.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I’m doing my best to clear this up in my head, it just seems weird to me. If several people are trying to give an account of something as important as Jesus rising from the dead, they should all at least describe it in a similar fashion. Either the earthquake happened or it did not happen. Either there was one Angel or there were two, and how come they do not report the Angels as being in the same spot. It just does not make sense. In Mathew the Angel sitting on the stone says the same thing as the Angel sitting on the table.
Click to expand...
The gospels don’t leave out details but only included those events which the authors deemed necessary to include in the gospels. St. John even said that he didn’t report all of the works or words of Jesus, but just those which he deemed necessary to prove to people that Jesus was God. So too it is with the gospels; not all the details are given, just the necessary ones. However, these details are from eyewitnesses and are about real events that actually occured in history, so the gospels are historic writings.
 
Here’s what St. John Chrysostom says:
newadvent.org/fathers/200101.htm
  1. But the contrary, it may be said, has come to pass, for in many places they are convicted of discordance. Nay, this very thing is a very great evidence of their truth. For if they had agreed in all things exactly even to time, and place, and to the very words, none of our enemies would have believed but that they had met together, and had written what they wrote by some human compact; because such entire agreement as this comes not of simplicity. But now even that discordance which seems to exist in little matters delivers them from all suspicion, and speaks clearly in behalf of the character of the writers.
But if there be anything touching times or places, which they have related differently, this nothing injures the truth of what they have said. And these things too, so far as God shall enable us, we will endeavor, as we proceed, to point out; requiring you, together with what we have mentioned, to observe, that in the chief heads, those which constitute our life and furnish out our doctrine, nowhere is any of them found to have disagreed, no not ever so little.
Click to expand...
Also see paragraph 28. of this:
newadvent.org/fathers/1602212.htm

and paragraph 51 of this:
newadvent.org/fathers/1602221.htm

Here is a chapter directly on the incidents mentioned:
newadvent.org/fathers/1602325.htm

All three are from St. Augustine’s work on the harmony of the Gospels–the whole things is good.
 
Each Gospel was written independently of the others and by different people writing years apart from each other. Mark is generally considered to be the oldest and John the newest. All were written prior to the end of the first century but the oldest, Mark was written some 10-20 years after the death of Christ.

These were not the only Gospels written. There were oithers that we know about and survive in some form today and many others that we either do not know about or do know about an do not survive today

The Church decided in the third century to compile what would eventually constitute scripture as we know it today. They chose the Gospels as well as the other books that they felt best reflected what happened, those that the closest in all respects to the truth and those with the correct teachings… And, there were heated discussions as to which books would be included or rejected. Revelation almost didn’t make it in but did and the Didach one of the oldest Christian documents and the Epistle of Clement, widely thought at the time to have been shoe ins were not included. The Acts of Paul and Thecla, immensely popular and used by many Churches was rejected and Mark, thought for years to be merely a condensed version of Matthew included.

As to differences in the Gospels of course there are differences. They were written reflecting oral traditions handed down from the time of Jesus himself. A detail might be different in this one or a name in that one but they all convey the same meaning and reflect the same events and the same truths. And let us remember that none of the writers were present at most of the events described. So, John may have heard the events described in one way and Luke in another way. That in no way detracts from the veracity of the message that they are trying to convey.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
John

1 Now the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
3 Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb. 4 So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first. 5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. 10 Then the disciples went away again to their own homes.

John makes it sound as if Mary was alone. Something else that is confusing, did Jesus not tell them that on the third day he would rise? In verse 9 it says they did not know the Scripture that he would rise again.
Click to expand...
We* dont know where they …
We is plural, and reflects more than one woman. He only mentions Mary because he felt she was an important part in the account.

And I would believe know the scriptures means understand, or they forgot and remembered sometime later, like Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came.
Pax
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I’m doing my best to clear this up in my head, it just seems weird to me. If several people are trying to give an account of something as important as Jesus rising from the dead, they should all at least describe it in a similar fashion. Either the earthquake happened or it did not happen. Either there was one Angel or there were two, and how come they do not report the Angels as being in the same spot. It just does not make sense. In Mathew the Angel sitting on the stone says the same thing as the Angel sitting on the table.
Click to expand...
If someone mentions an earthquake, and someone else doesn’t *
mention it, that is not to say the writer says “No earthquake happened there, by the way.” That would be a contradiction.
I think you’re analyzing it too hard. The writers could have left things out and another writer mention it, like the number of angels, thus complimenting* the others, like I said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top