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ClemtheCatholic
Guest
An odd question, but hopefully not a foolish one: Do we know how exactly Our Lord died? Was it through suffocation (fast or slow), blood loss, organs failing due to trauma, or something else?
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Crusaderbear
Guest
Death by crucifixion has been studied for a long time, here is a medical study looking at most of the scientific options:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420788/#!po=3.84615
Bottom line seems to be, scientifically, nobody knows.
For the believer, “for our sins”!
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420788/#!po=3.84615
Bottom line seems to be, scientifically, nobody knows.
For the believer, “for our sins”!
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dshix
Guest
He was not killed by the material aspects of the crucifixion.
Christ surrendered His own life. That is, He died when He willed that His spirit leave His body, saying “Into your hands I commend my spirit”.
There is evidence that the torture of crucifixion would often last for days or weeks (unless the soldiers hurried it along by breaking their legs), and yet Christ died before they broke his legs.
Christ surrendered His own life. That is, He died when He willed that His spirit leave His body, saying “Into your hands I commend my spirit”.
There is evidence that the torture of crucifixion would often last for days or weeks (unless the soldiers hurried it along by breaking their legs), and yet Christ died before they broke his legs.
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Catholic1954
Guest
I heard a speaker many years ago (an M.D.) who had extensively looked into it and he concluded that the death was due to heart failure. Our Lord was in pretty rough shape when he got to the crucifixion because of all the abuse from the Romans and temple guards.
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BarbTh
Guest
Medical and scientific study of sufferings and death of Jesus. Warning: It is detailed, and quite graphic with sketches - from Catholic Culture:
catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/overviews/seasons/lent/passion1.cfm
catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/overviews/seasons/lent/passion1.cfm
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
I think it is difficult to tell… but there’s a clue; from what I understand, crucifixion was a horrendous death sentence… the act was reserved for Rome’s (and others) worst enemies and the most heinous of criminals (which of course would include political/religious adversaries). The object was to prolong an excruciating death where the person would suffer physically and emotionally as insults and other things would be hurled at him (or her). The feet were nailed against a horizontal bracket so that the person could come up for air and prolong his demise… the open wounds would be a cause of greater pain as the person would struggle to take his/her next breath… the time on the cross would depend on various variables: health, strength, weight, athleticism, brutality of the pre-crucifixion treatment (scourging, beatings, the hatred of the guards…).
In Jesus’ case we know that, in an effort to sate the Jews, Pilate had Him suffer through scourging/s and that the guards took it to a high-level as they even wove a crown of thorns which they placed (or pounded) on Him… it goes to Isaiah’s Suffering Servant (Isaiah 52:13-15 thru 53):
– (Isaiah 52:14)
…Jesus must have died from a combination of things: exsanguination combined with chronic muscle fatigue… here’s the clue:
(St. John 19:31-34)
…so normally, a person would take many hours/perhaps even days to die… Jesus’ pre-crucifixion condition did not allow Him to last long… again it was necessary since Scriptures prophesied that He (Jesus) would be pierced and that not a single bone of His would be Broken (as the Passover Lamb!); Jesus death was accelerated.
Maran atha!
Angel
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thistle
Guest
He died on the Cross. Does it make any difference what would be shown a death certificate (had they existed then).
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fred_conty
Guest
It seems that when someone is on the cross, they must use their legs to push their sagging body upward to give the lungs enough ease to take in oxigen. And then when the body could no longer stand the strain of being held up by the legs supported by the nailed feet, then the body would be let down again and the lungs then could no longer breath in this position. This up and down movement went on until finally there was no more energy to move up to get air. At that point, the man died of asphyxiation. It seems to me that this would be very similar to water boarding which sends a person into constant panic for more air.
It may have been that our dear Lord realized he had no more strength left to attempt to left his body upward to breath one more time. And at that last time of being up, he let out his last breath reciting the words of the psalm. Then gave up.
It may have been that our dear Lord realized he had no more strength left to attempt to left his body upward to breath one more time. And at that last time of being up, he let out his last breath reciting the words of the psalm. Then gave up.
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patrick457
Guest
This was from Dr. Pierre Barbet - the same doctor who claimed that asphyxiation was the cause of death of the man on the Shroud of Turin (often identified as Jesus). However, Dr. Frederick Zugibe put into question Barbet’s findings.
If I might add, Barbet also apparently forgot that some ancient sources that talk about crucifixion speak of a kind of peg/seat/ledge attached midway through the vertical where the crucified could ‘sit’ and relieve the pull of gravity, putting the whole ‘the victim has to push himself up to breathe’ scenario out of the question.
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fred_conty
Guest
The mystery is … what kind of cross was used. However, when the soldiers broke the legs of the other two crucified with Jesus, but omitted doing it to Jesus because he was already dead, indicates to me that breaking the legs had an important part to play in their deaths.
And this would seem to say that it was by asphyxiation.
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dshix
Guest
Breaking their legs could also kill them through blood loss.
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patrick457
Guest
Dr. Zugibe actually explained that. The leg breaking causes fatal traumatic shock.
The shape of Roman crosses are actually pretty consistent: ancient sources from the period when Roman crucifixions were still a thing consistently describe it as being T / † shaped. (The X-shaped St. Andrew’s cross is a later development: in the earliest legends and artworks, St. Andrew was portrayed as being crucified on a cross shaped like that of Jesus, in other words a T / †. Only later did iconographers show him crucified on an X, perhaps to distinguish him from the other apostles and saints who were also crucified.)
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fred_conty
Guest
Well it is just great to have a man like Dr. Zugibe agreeing with my interpretation.
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patrick457
Guest
I should add: leg breaking was also a punishment by itself (IIRC there was one case where this slave was killed by having his legs broken first and then his corpse was hung on a cross), so I don’t think it necessarily translates to asphyxiation.Well it is just great to have a man like Dr. Zugibe agreeing with my interpretation.
As Dr. Zugibe has noted contra Dr. Barbet, the only real way you could asphyxiate while being suspended is if you had your hands straight above your head - in other words, pretty much like how the Jehovah’s Witnesses depict Jesus being nailed on the ‘torture stake’ - and dangling free-fall. (In fact, that’s what Barbet saw in the concentration camp in Dachau: prisoners being hanged with their arms above their heads with their feet just off the ground.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Based on experiments, he pretty much saw that being hung in the way way Jesus is often depicted crucified (arms outstretched over the horizontal beam, at a 60-70 degree angle) does not really cause any difficulty breathing. In fact, he argued that you couldn’t really straighten from the ‘sagging’ position postulated by Barbet.
This appears to be due to the fact that with both feet secured to the stipes or with one foot on top of the other and the knees bent, the range of motion limitation for straightening has been exceeded which precludes any type of straightening or pushing mechanism. It is also obvious that it would be virtually impossible to straighten the body from the sagging position since the arms of the crucarius were so far extended. This experiment also demonstrates that if volunteers who were in good physical condition were unable to push or pull up to straighten themselves no matter how hard they tried when the feet are secured to the stipes or with one foot on top of the other, how could an injured, exhausted person particularly one in severe pain and nailed through the hands and feet have the strength to straighten from a sagging position. This should completely repudiate the theory of straightening and sagging as proposed by Barbet. Therefore, it doesn’t matter how long the crucarius was on the cross and in what physical condition he was in, because it is not possible to straighten as proposed by Barbet and even if it were possible, there would be no reason to straighten because simply stated, there is no problem breathing in the sagging position.
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Faith1960
Guest
I don’t think he died of suffocation because He cried out, using His last breath, and when people are suffocating they don’t have the strength to yell.
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fred_conty
Guest
But do people cry out when they have a heart attack?
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Fred!
…does this not go to the type/severity of the heart attack?
Maran atha!
Angel
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Faith1960
Guest
I don’t know, I’d guess not. But he could’ve cried out, then suffered the heart attack.
I think that suffocating would be a longer process.
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Faith1960
Guest
It could, I’d guess.
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