How did Jesus end The Our Father?

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Little_Mary

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Are we all in agreement that His words end with “And deliver us from evil. Amen”

Or do some believe that “For thine is the kingdom, etc…” is part of the original prayer?

Just curious.
 
Little_Mary said:
Are we all in agreement that His words end with “And deliver us from evil. Amen”

Or do some believe that “For thine is the kingdom, etc…” is part of the original prayer?

Just curious.
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You are correct. Interestingly, Luther in his Small Catechism, ends his commentary on the prayer with the 7th petition (deliver us from evil).
Jon
 
Benedict wrote “Jesus of Nazareth” in 07. He devoted an entire chapter to the Our Father breaking it down line by line. Facinating book on Jesus, one of the better works I’ve read on Him.

Part II is coming out this year.
 
Little_Mary said:
Are we all in agreement that His words end with “And deliver us from evil. Amen”

Or do some believe that “For thine is the kingdom, etc…” is part of the original prayer?

Just curious.
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I think the prayer, as Jesus taught it, ended in “deliver us from evil. Amen.” The other part, from what I’ve heard, was picked up from some notes one of the scribes made in the margin, not from an original copy.
 
I think we all agree that Jesus ended it “and deliver us from all evil”. I remember, as a kid, that the non-catholic religions said “for thine is the power…” after the Lord’s Prayer. Always thought it was beautiful. I wish I knew where it came from.
 
The prayer as it appears in the Diache ends with: “for Thine is the power and the glory for ever.”
 
While not present in most ancient biblical manuscripts, it is interesting how, “for thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever,” has been usurped by protestants and is contained in some protestant translations of the Bible when it was originally part of the catholic liturgy.
 
The “Our Father” in Matthew 6 ends with “For thine is the kingdom…”, at least in the New King James translation of the Bible.
 
GKCT said:
I think we all agree that Jesus ended it “and deliver us from all evil”. I remember, as a kid, that the non-catholic religions said “for thine is the power…” after the Lord’s Prayer. Always thought it was beautiful. I wish I knew where it came from.
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It comes from the east.

It is in the liturgy of St John Chrysostom and Saint Basil, a priests prayer, essentially a form of doxology. It is also in the Liturgy of Saint James, the forerunner of the liturgy of St John and arguably the oldest continually used liturgy of all, in use from Antioch in Syria all across asia, in southern India and had even reached China by the seventh century. I wouldn’t claim the turn of phrase is Apostolic (although it might be), but it comes from very early in Christian history. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if it was also once in use in one of the lost western liturgies.

If f it was discovered in the margins of scripture I am quite sure that was because the manuscripts were Greek, and they were brought west at the beginning of the renaissance from Orthodox monasteries. Among these many volumes would be the Textus Receptus that Erasmus worked on.
 
Little_Mary said:
Does anyone know what the original Greek manuscripts say?
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The original manuscripts wouldn’t have it, if we had them to see.

No scholar seriously suggests that the phrase “for Thine is the kingdom …” was in the original prayer of Jesus. Could it have been said by Jesus? Yes, it could have, then we would have to assume the Apostles used it in order for us to have it, but the Gospel accounts do not include it so no one makes that claim.

The phrase is strictly used in eastern liturgies, by the priest, which is why there is evidence for it in the Didache (a very early catechetical tool). It is clearly very old and has been used continuously since before the Didache was written, but is part of tradition, not recorded in the Gospel accounts.
 
Exactly, But you could google and read a Greek version of the Prayer.

The real issue is if Matthew was in fact written in Hebrew which Jerome has stated in his 400 writting, and claims to have read a copy in Syria. Today the debate goes on:)
 
Hesychios said:
The original manuscripts wouldn’t have it, if we had them to see.

No scholar seriously suggests that the phrase “for Thine is the kingdom …” was in the original prayer of Jesus. Could it have been said by Jesus? Yes, it could have, then we would have to assume the Apostles used it in order for us to have it, but the Gospel accounts do not include it so no one makes that claim.

The phrase is strictly used in eastern liturgies, by the priest, which is why there is evidence for it in the Didache (a very early catechetical tool). It is clearly very old and has been used continuously since before the Didache was written, but is part of tradition, not recorded in the Gospel accounts.
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It is recorded in the New KJV bible within the text as if it is part of the prayer. Shouldn’t somebody give King James the heads up?😉
 
Recognize conjecture when you see it. Statements that it is not original are conjecture. The earliest existing document outside of the New Testament supports its use in the prayer.
 
SyCarl said:
The prayer as it appears in the Diache ends with: “for Thine is the power and the glory for ever.”
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What appears here is the doxology which was used from most ancient days, however was not a part of the prayer it’s self. Interestingly enough we all still use the doxology (it hasn’t gone away), however it is not actually a part of the prayer. Properly said, the prayer ends with “deliver us from evil. Amen.”.
 
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