How did Jesus learn to pray?

[Starrsmother]

I hope this thread will be in the correct forum. I couldn’t quite decide. Many threads have repetatively been on here about the “hidden years” of Jesus. How much DID He understood growing up and when did the “Who He really was” become a conscience state within Him? When did He realize what His mission was here on earth and also why would HE feel the need to pray with such anguish and abandonment in the garden on the night He was betrayed if He indeed knew exactly why He was here and that there was no going back in a manner of speaking? I belong to a year long catechism study group which is part of the “Year of Faith” This was on one of our lessons and I found it to be poignant–just thinking of the young Jesus at His mother’s knee being taught to pray in the only way she would have known how to pray, as a Jewish woman/mother of her day–the idea of anyone needing to teach Jesus anything–least of all how to pray! Imagine that for a minute or two. And yet, I’m sure He must have “learned” to pray from Mary–and I’m sure she taught Him well and that He learned every Jewish prayer and tradition of His time–and practiced them. And they must have been important to Him even as he taught us new traditions and even better prayers, such as the Our Father! Anyway,this reading was truly such a source of meditation for me–so I wanted to share it with all my CAF brothers and sisters. If I am in the wrong forum place, please forgive my ineptness. But do read on:

Day 350 - How Jesus Learned to Pray

How did Jesus learn to pray?

Jesus learned to pray in his family and in the synagogue. Yet Jesus broke through the boundaries of traditional prayer. His prayer demonstrates a union with his Father in heaven that is possible only to someone who is the Son of God.

Jesus, who was God and man at the same time, grew up like other Jewish children of his time amid the rituals and prayer formulas of his people, Israel. Nevertheless, as the story of the twelve-year-old Jesus in the Temple demonstrated (Lk 2:41ff.), there was something in him that could not be learned: an original, profound, and unique union with God, his Father in heaven. Like all other men, Jesus hoped for another world, a hereafter, and prayed to God. At the same time, though, he was also part of that hereafter. This occasion already showed that one day people would pray to Jesus, acknowledge him as God, and ask for his grace (YOUCAT question 474)

Isn’t this a lovely thought?

 

[Jon_Paul]

Jesus Christ from the very moment of His conception possessed the use of reason and a perfect intellect in His human nature with all of the knowledge of His divine nature. There was never a moment that He did not know all of the prayers of His people, there was never a moment where He had to “learn” them. He always knew them.

And the reason for His Agony was His perfect love and knowledge for us. He knew that despite the Sacrifice He was to make, despite His agonising Passion, despite the price of His Precious Blood, that there would be people who would not accept it and would end up consumed in the everlasting fires of perdition. His Agony and Sorrow was for all the souls that will be lost in hell despite His Passion, Death and Resurrection. It was accomplished by the Divine knowledge and motivated by the Divine love.

 

[TMC]

Jesus Christ from the very moment of His conception possessed the use of reason and a perfect intellect in His human nature with all of the knowledge of His divine nature. There was never a moment that He did not know all of the prayers of His people, there was never a moment where He had to “learn” them. He always knew them.

And the reason for His Agony was His perfect love and knowledge for us. He knew that despite the Sacrifice He was to make, despite His agonising Passion, despite the price of His Precious Blood, that there would be people who would not accept it and would end up consumed in the everlasting fires of perdition. His Agony and Sorrow was for all the souls that will be lost in hell despite His Passion, Death and Resurrection. It was accomplished by the Divine knowledge and motivated by the Divine love.

I know many Catholics believe this, and maybe even more evangelicals. I do not believe the Church teaches this, however. IMHO, perfect omniscience from the moment of conception is not really consistent with the idea of being fully human. We don’t really understand how Christ could be fully human and fully divine, and because it is something we can’t understand the Church does not suppose to demand that we take a certain take on it.

 

[johnthebaptist2]

Jesus knew all about praying,he pray in the synagogue,he pray in the garden the night he was betrayed,he taught us the Our Father,and by all means ,I beleive hismother Mary also taught Jesus how to pray,but since his birth,Jesus knew how to pray.

 

[clem456]

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm

Christ’s soul and his human knowledge

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 **This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103 **
473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109

 

[Jon_Paul]

Christ’s soul and his human knowledge

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103

**473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.**106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109

Clem456’s highlight would apply to such things as smell and taste which Christ would have had to experience to come to a knowledge of. Also bodily pain (such as if He fell and scraped His knee). Payer would not have come under the experiential knowledge of Christ but rather the infused knowledge.

 

[TMC]

Hmmm… I favor Clem456’s view over Jon Paul’s - but it is admittedly impossible to know for sure. I’ll just have to ask Him when I see Him.

 

[Starrsmother]

I know many Catholics believe this, and maybe even more evangelicals. I do not believe the Church teaches this, however. IMHO, perfect omniscience from the moment of conception is not really consistent with the idea of being fully human. We don’t really understand how Christ could be fully human and fully divine, and because it is something we can’t understand the Church does not suppose to demand that we take a certain take on it.

Fair enough belief. Apparently some apologetics have differing beliefs than those you expressed and since it’s not an infallible teaching, I think your belief is equally as reasonable as my own! I personally love the mental picture of Jesus at His mother’s knee learning prayers from her–just as she undoubtedly helped Him learn to walk and talk.

When I was a child there was an old prayer I remember still:

“Lovely lady dressed in blue, teach me how to pray.
God was just your little boy–Teach me what to say.”

 

[johnthebaptist2]

Fair enough belief. Apparently some apologetics have differing beliefs than those you expressed and since it’s not an infallible teaching, I think your belief is equally as reasonable as my own! I personally love the mental picture of Jesus at His mother’s knee learning prayers from her–just as she undoubtedly helped Him learn to walk and talk.

When I was a child there was an old prayer I remember still:

“Lovely lady dressed in blue, teach me how to pray.
God was just your little boy–Teach me what to say.”

I remember that pray also,but their was another pray I used to say.

Angel of God,my Guardian dear,
To whom God,s love commits me here,
Ever this day be at my side,
To light ans guard, to rule and guide.Amen
My mother, always made sure that I prayed before going to bed… God Bless you MOM

 

[clem456]

Christ’s soul and his human knowledge

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and **would even have to inquire for himself **about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103
473 But at the same time, this **truly human **knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109

To get back to the original question, yes, Jesus would have had to learn how to speak, think, and pray from his mother and his father, and the rest of the faith tradition he was brought up in. The fact that Jesus expressed and shone forth the Father does not mean that he was born with adult human abilities and adult human knowledge. The CCC speaks fairly clearly here.

 

[Starrsmother]

I remember that pray also,but their was another pray I used to say.

Angel of God,my Guardian dear,
To whom God,s love commits me here,
Ever this day be at my side,
To light ans guard, to rule and guide.Amen
My mother, always made sure that I prayed before going to bed… God Bless you MOM

Believe it or not, I STILL say the Guardian angel prayer!!

 

[M-Dent]

Clem456’s highlight would apply to such things as smell and taste which Christ would have had to experience to come to a knowledge of. Also bodily pain (such as if He fell and scraped His knee). Prayer would not have come under the experiential knowledge of Christ but rather the infused knowledge.

That is my understanding as well.

I’ve understood traditional Catholic teaching noting Jesus possessed the immediate vision of God (Beatific Vision). This can be most helpful in trying to grasp why it is extremely doubtful Jesus needed to be taught how to pray. We may also find an indication of this when twelve years old Jesus astonished the teachers in the temple.

For hardly was He conceived in the womb of the Mother of God, when He began to enjoy the Beatific Vision, and in that vision all the members of His Mystical Body were continually and unceasingly present to Him, and He embraced them with His redeeming love

MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI (see 75)
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061943_mystici-corporis-christi_en.html

As noted, the Experiential Knowledge (as shared by Aquinas) is what is said to have increased in “wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man".

 

[Starrsmother]

That is my understanding as well.

I’ve understood traditional Catholic teaching noting Jesus possessed the immediate vision of God (Beatific Vision). This can be most helpful in trying to grasp why it is extremely doubtful Jesus needed to be taught how to pray. We may also find an indication of this when twelve years old Jesus astonished the teachers in the temple.

As noted, the Experiential Knowledge (as shared by Aquinas) is what is said to have increased in “wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man".

I do enjoy reading and considering Aquinas’ ideas too—but they certainly aren’t infallible truth–rather, they are his opinion entirely. Some are quite likely at least inspired --probably others are not so much. There is no absolute church doctrine on exactly what did or did not go through Jesus’ mind at any given point in his life as a whole or in His childhood in particular–though I do agree that He had to have had a basic understanding of His divinity and mission very early on. Even that however, proves absolutely nothing as far as whether Mary taught her son Jesus the Jewish prayers and worship traditions of His time or not. Mary taught Him how to walk, talk and get dressed after all. And, as a young child, I believe personally that like all youngsters, Jesus first learned prayers at His mother’s knee! But, like Aquinas, that’s only my personal belief–nothing more-- and others have every right to choose to believe otherwise. :thumbsup: