How did Masses before Vatican Council II work?

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I’ve heard that before Vatican Council II the priest would say the whole Mass in Latin with his back to the people.Why is that?.Would they also do this when they were interperting scripture?.If a person was use to hearing the priest say Mass in Latin would they eventually catch on with what they were saying when they were adults after hearing it so many time?.
Most of the prayers of the Mass, in particular the Eucharistic prayers, are directed to the Father, through the Son, and invoking the Holy Spirit. The priest acts as the leader of the flock in directing prayer and sacrifice to God, whether he faces the people or not. The only danger in celebrating the Mass facing the people is that a priest may sometimes be tempted to think that he is conducting a service for the enjoyment of an audience rather than directing prayer and sacrifice to God on their behalf. But that temptation is overcome by focusing attention on the words of the liturgy itself.

As to the pre-Vatican II days, I can say that quite often people did become so accustomed to hearing the words of the Mass in Latin that it was nearly memorized. Even today I can pretty much recite the Latin words of the introductory prayers at the foot of the altar, even though those haven’t been used in decades.
 
The priest faced Christ in the tabernacle. We each had our prayer books with all the words. Our responses were in Latin. The prayer book broke the Latin words down into parts to help us pronounce them correctly. We were there to worship and reverence God.

The only change was a new, smaller altar was brought in, the priest faced the people and the Mass was in English. As the nuns told us at the time, this was done to encourage greater participation by the people. I had no reason to change anything about my relationship to God.

Peace,
Ed
 
Prior to Vatican II, the bulk of the Mass was said in Latin. Most “born Catholics” did not learn Latin, and they literally had no idea what most of those prayers were saying. Even using a Missle, they could not keep up properly.

I was a convert in 1953, and I learned the Latin of the Mass, and what it meant. I could never understand (and I still don’t) why most people raised in the Catholic Faith did not bother to learn what their own Mass was all about.

The Priest faced toward the Alter, with his back to the people most of the time. This was to show that he was a “part of the congregation”. However, this was a HUGE change when it was instituted, as for centuries before that version of the Mass, the Priest had always faced the people.

The Epistle, the Gospel and the Homily were all done in the local language. They were NOT read in Latin first, they were only read in the language used by the majority of the people in the congregation.

Generally, Priests also wore much more elaborate vestments, much heavier than they do today. In many cases the vestments were made with real gold thread. They were very expensive, and even poor parishes would have families do without, in order to vest their priest elaborately.

As one who converted in the “Old” Mass days, I have to say that I miss those Masses, especially the “High” or sung Masses. BUT, I would NOT want to see the church go back to that era, as the vast majority of the people didn’t have a clue about what was going on.

It is much better to have the people understand the Mass, and be able to actively participate in it, that to just go through rote activities.

Most of the “conservatives” that advocate going back to pre-Vatican II days are not old enough to remember what it was like back then. I do remember it, I went to Mass daily from 1953-1969 (even in the Army, I went to Mass daily whenever possible). I saw the changes of Vatican II being slowly introduced (beginning with the Priest facing the people), and although I found it strange at first, I would never want to see the Church go back to that.

Far too many people were excluded by language and custom. Far too many people “deified” the priests, and treated them as something other than “human”. For all too many, they Church was more dead than alive. It was much more habit for many people, and not really choice.

It was said that “The Mass was the same, the world around” during those days. That was true, you could go to Mass in Germany, Vietnam, France, England, anywhere in the US, Mexico, Korea, or anywhere else, and the basic Mass was the same (except for the Epistle, Gospel and Homily, which were in the local language) I know, I went to Mass in all of those countries (and several others).

BUT, so was the lack of participation by the Laity the same the world around. I sincerely pray that the church NEVER goes back to that kind of situation.
 
It is much better to have the people understand the Mass, and be able to actively participate in it, that to just go through rote activities.
I hope that people participate more now, and I personally do not desire a general return to the Tridentine rite Mass. But, as a Catholic neighbor said to me at the time, “hey, it’s OK–I can daydream through English as easily as I can through Latin!”)
 
Participate? When I go to the Novus Ordo, I tend to see a lot of adults standing around not singing the juvenile drivel that the band is pumping out. I don’t blame them… it’s not the Boy Scout Jamboree. I’m not clapping. I’m not there to have ‘fun’.

Then there’s the constant irreverence. What goes on often savors of a faux-democratic exaltation of Man over the Creator. A banal performance, a stage show. Why would anyone want to participate in that?

At the TLM, I participate by uniting my prayers and my spirit with the priest whose prayers possess efficacy through Divine Grace before Almighty God. Whether I follow along in my Missal (I mostly do) is irrelevant.

The Mass is a sacrifice. I’m not a priest… I cannot offer that sacrifice myself. I can only participate in union with the priest. And it’s also not magic. It doesn’t work better if more than one person says the words. Like the Hebrews of old, the priest leads the faithful in prayer… often prayed at a whisper. The Lord can hear a whisper.
 
Participate? When I go to the Novus Ordo, I tend to see a lot of adults standing around not singing the juvenile drivel that the band is pumping out. I don’t blame them… it’s not the Boy Scout Jamboree. I’m not clapping. I’m not there to have ‘fun’.

Then there’s the constant irreverence. What goes on often savors of a faux-democratic exaltation of Man over the Creator. A banal performance, a stage show. Why would anyone want to participate in that?

At the TLM, I participate by uniting my prayers and my spirit with the priest whose prayers possess efficacy through Divine Grace before Almighty God. Whether I follow along in my Missal (I mostly do) is irrelevant.

The Mass is a sacrifice. I’m not a priest… I cannot offer that sacrifice myself. I can only participate in union with the priest. And it’s also not magic. It doesn’t work better if more than one person says the words. Like the Hebrews of old, the priest leads the faithful in prayer… often prayed at a whisper. The Lord can hear a whisper.
I don’t think that because the Ordinary Form (OF) of the Mass is badly celebrated in some places that the OF is in itself bad.
 
I think Adeodatus is right. I have struggled with the NO (OF) for 40+ years. I offer it up as a prayer because I offer all my pains and sufferings up to the Lord.
 
This thread has gotten off on some tangents that may be doing a disservice to the poor OP, who, it seems to me, was asking for some basic information that is easily supplied without adding the burden of value judgments, which everyone including myself carries but which we can suppress if we have a mind to. I had not thought to make my own reply an answer to another, but, unfortunately, this one is so full of misleading or downright incorrect information that I feel obliged to use it as my springboard.
Prior to Vatican II, the bulk of the Mass was said in Latin. Most “born Catholics” did not learn Latin, and they literally had no idea what most of those prayers were saying. Even using a Missle, they could not keep up properly.
ALL of the Mass was said in Latin except the Kyrie, which is a Greek prayer. It is true that there was a wide variety of interest in and preparation for following along with the Mass, but it is not true that people could not follow along properly with a missal.
The Epistle, the Gospel and the Homily were all done in the local language. They were NOT read in Latin first, they were only read in the language used by the majority of the people in the congregation.
The two readings (there were only two) were always read or sung in Latin. If one was not in fact following the Mass and it was a Low Mass, it was easy to miss this. In the U.S. at least, the custom arose of repeating the readings in the vernacular at the beginning of the Sunday sermon (weekday Low Masses were generally uninterrupted this way). The concept of an interpretive homily being part of the Liturgy of the Word was either instituted or re-instated after Vatican II. In the traditional (Tridentine, EF) rite, the sermon was considered an interruption, which is why it was permitted for it to be in the vernacular.
Generally, Priests also wore much more elaborate vestments, much heavier than they do today. In many cases the vestments were made with real gold thread. They were very expensive, and even poor parishes would have families do without, in order to vest their priest elaborately.
The difference in elaboration is easy to exaggerate. In fact, modern vestments are similar in number and heft to the former set, with the exception of the maniple, a length of cloth worn over the left forarm, which was abandoned as soon as it became optional; and the amice, a sort of foreshortened cape (not heavy) worn under the alb whose function is now incorporated in modern-style albs. Modern chasubles tend to be fuller and to cover much of the arms (always an option), which actually makes them more hefty than the sleeveless and often fiddleback-style chasubles that were formerly more frequently used. Good vestments are and always have been expensive.
 
Prior to Vatican II, the bulk of the Mass was said in Latin. Most “born Catholics” did not learn Latin, and they literally had no idea what most of those prayers were saying. Even using a Missle, they could not keep up properly.

I was a convert in 1953, and I learned the Latin of the Mass, and what it meant. I could never understand (and I still don’t) why most people raised in the Catholic Faith did not bother to learn what their own Mass was all about.

The Priest faced toward the Alter, with his back to the people most of the time. This was to show that he was a “part of the congregation”. However, this was a HUGE change when it was instituted, as for centuries before that version of the Mass, the Priest had always faced the people.

The Epistle, the Gospel and the Homily were all done in the local language. They were NOT read in Latin first, they were only read in the language used by the majority of the people in the congregation.

Generally, Priests also wore much more elaborate vestments, much heavier than they do today. In many cases the vestments were made with real gold thread. They were very expensive, and even poor parishes would have families do without, in order to vest their priest elaborately.

As one who converted in the “Old” Mass days, I have to say that I miss those Masses, especially the “High” or sung Masses. BUT, I would NOT want to see the church go back to that era, as the vast majority of the people didn’t have a clue about what was going on.

It is much better to have the people understand the Mass, and be able to actively participate in it, that to just go through rote activities.

Most of the “conservatives” that advocate going back to pre-Vatican II days are not old enough to remember what it was like back then. I do remember it, I went to Mass daily from 1953-1969 (even in the Army, I went to Mass daily whenever possible). I saw the changes of Vatican II being slowly introduced (beginning with the Priest facing the people), and although I found it strange at first, I would never want to see the Church go back to that.

Far too many people were excluded by language and custom. Far too many people “deified” the priests, and treated them as something other than “human”. For all too many, they Church was more dead than alive. It was much more habit for many people, and not really choice.

It was said that “The Mass was the same, the world around” during those days. That was true, you could go to Mass in Germany, Vietnam, France, England, anywhere in the US, Mexico, Korea, or anywhere else, and the basic Mass was the same (except for the Epistle, Gospel and Homily, which were in the local language) I know, I went to Mass in all of those countries (and several others).

BUT, so was the lack of participation by the Laity the same the world around. I sincerely pray that the church NEVER goes back to that kind of situation.
As I recall, our Missal had Latin and English.

amazon.com/Roman-Catholic-Daily-Missal-Angelus/dp/1892331292

Do you remember the sunrise service at Easter? We got up at 4:00 AM. There was an elaborate procession. We all carried potted lillies. The Church was packed. We were there to worship God. I also went to daily mass.

I hope the Mass returns to Latin. We had a Religion class at my Catholic school and we had more than a clue about what was going on.

When my mother’s mother died, she went to visit our pastor and took me with her. Aside from showing proper respect, he was a human being like the rest of us and she knew she could go to him.

Peace,
Ed
 
Ok, but to the person in the second row, the back of the people in the first row is facing them. It doesn’t seem rude in that case, does it?
I’m not saying it is. The comment I replied to says “the priest does not have his back to the people.” Fact is, he does. And you’re right, “so what?”
 
Well then, the people in the pews in front of me are celebrating Mass with their backs to me, and I take offense at that.
LOL, second time. Where did I say that its offensive? I just said lets call it like it is, his back is facing us.

I have been frequenting a Byzantine Rite parish recently and yes, the priest does have his back towards us. Also if I were to attend a more orthodox Byzantine parish, not only would the priest have his back towards us, he’d shut the doors and close the curtain during consecration! How rude! :eek: :D:D:D
 
youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64

Here you can attend, Our Lady of Sorrows CC-Chicago 1941 Traditional Latin Rite Mass Easter Sunday. Don’t feel left out by any means.

Oh I remember the Mass, and I remember how shocked most were of the changes in the 60’s.

Today I have mixed feelings about this. I attended Catholic School pre Vatican II also. I just don’t know how possible or realistic it is today to return full tilt to this. Its hard to accurately comprehend how the church as been affected since this era. I’m not convinced the change in the Mass is the culprit. Society went through a drastic change in the 60’s and early 70’s.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64

Here you can attend, Our Lady of Sorrows CC-Chicago 1941 Traditional Latin Rite Mass Easter Sunday. Don’t feel left out by any means.

Oh I remember the Mass, and I remember how shocked most were of the changes in the 60’s.

Today I have mixed feelings about this. I attended Catholic School pre Vatican II also. I just don’t know how possible or realistic it is today to return full tilt to this. Its hard to accurately comprehend how the church as been affected since this era. I’m not convinced the change in the Mass is the culprit. Society went through a drastic change in the 60’s and early 70’s.
The change in the Mass was not the culprit. Dissenters inside and outside the Church were the problem. I hope it will help you to know that none of the changes associated with Vatican II were even suggested by Vatican II.

catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1145

Peace,
Ed
 
The change in the Mass was not the culprit. Dissenters inside and outside the Church were the problem. I hope it will help you to know that none of the changes associated with Vatican II were even suggested by Vatican II.

catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1145

Peace,
Ed
Actually, Ed, a few of the changes were called for by the council: more use of the bible (SC #24 & #35§1), allowing more use of the vernacular (#36§2, #54¶2), simplification of the liturgy to present more clearly the mystery (#21 ¶2), restoration of the diaconate. HH Paul VI makes note of these in 1963… Mostly in Sacrosanctum Consilium.
 
Hey, I’m not going to argue the things you mention. My point is: A Lot of what people think Vatican II did, it did not do.

Peace,
Ed
 
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