HOW did Satan and his demons fall when they were angels?

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It appears there is a difference in how free will operates once a specified point (specified by God of course) has been reached. For us humans, that point is physical death. After death we’ll still have free will - but one similar to angelic beings in that our basic choice for or against God will be irrevocable.

Prior to physical death, God allows fallen man the option of repentance. (Not applicable to angels since they do not have material bodies!) The amount of time open for us to exercise that option varies for each human - some die after only a second; others live more than a 100 years.

If we are in heaven, we will still have free will but in such a way that there’s no possibility we’d ever choose to reject God, His love, His truth, His goodness … We will ever and only use our free will to choose to do and think good things; to do only what will please God.

For those in hell it’s just the opposite.

Regarding the fallen angels, there’s a small section, CCC 390-395, in the Catechism on it.
CCC 392 reads: Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. …
 
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Sorry i just finished reading this part 1 and haven’t started part 2 yet. Wow! Where is that from? I’ve never read that excerpt before! Its so enlightening. Your post itself, its amazingly detailed and i learned so much thank you so much! I"ll move onto the next part now. I’m attempting to read this and eat breakfast at the same time.
 
Lunam_Meam said:
Would God have been able to hinder this deed? Yes. But, why violate the free will of the most beautiful, most intelligent archangel? Would not He Himself, the Most Just, then have put disorder into His own ordered Thought, by no longer wanting what He had previously wanted: that is, the freedom of the archangel?
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I’m quoting this because i also have a question. That line about God putting disorder into His own ordered Thought made me think of the flood story in Genesis. Does that line have any bearing on the flood story? Also, i LOVE your entire post its taught me a lot. But i must ask - where’d you get all that knowledge? I mean i readily admit to not reading over half of the OT and avoiding Revelation. But i’ve never heard of it before and nobody else here has brought any of this up.
 
All angels were created with full infusion of the knowledge they were intended to know In the Beginning, which is In the Word of the Son.
The first knowing they experienced was “There is Light hovering above the waters of your knowing so you can see the reality of what you know.”
Satan’s will moved him to say, “I will not serve.” and that is all he and his angels say because they want to see by their own power alone to gain their own life.
Michael, and the full choruses of “good Angels of the LORD” were moved by their wills, desiring to see, to say, “We are servants of the LORD; let it be according to your will; Let there be Light.” And Light shone in Time. God making light in Co-Operation with the Knowing of his Angels.
 
anendlesswaltz said:
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Lunam_Meam:
Would God have been able to hinder this deed? Yes. But, why violate the free will of the most beautiful, most intelligent archangel? Would not He Himself, the Most Just, then have put disorder into His own ordered Thought, by no longer wanting what He had previously wanted: that is, the freedom of the archangel?
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That line about God putting disorder into His own ordered Thought made me think of the flood story in Genesis. Does that line have any bearing on the flood story?
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I’ll answer that and provide more information about the flood asap.
 
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Satan belonged to the Seraphim choir of angels. Satan being a angel of light were the closest to God’s presence. Angels are an eternal being, therefore when ever an angel makes a choice pertaining to the angels status of being that choice remains permanent. Thus Satan and the fallen angels remain eternally in a fallen state. When they were given the beatific vision of God or God’s plan in creation, Satan rejected God’s plan, and Michael made a clarion call “Who is like God”! a Battle ensued and Satan and all the fallen angles were cast out of Heaven.
Satan has but a short time and Satan’s goal is to take as many of God’s children to eternal hell with all the fallen angels or demons.
The best eternal weapon Jesus has given the Church to resist the evil one begins with Sacramental Baptism, where God touches our humanity and protects His chosen Children.
Peace be with you
 
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You know there are ignorants with free will and knowledgeable with free will, right?
 
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Has this vision been approved in the same way as Fatima or Lourdes? That was my question.
You are discussing a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur. These are not the same as Vatican approved apparitions.
Do not get confused by the two.
 
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umamibella said:
Has this vision been approved in the same way as Fatima or Lourdes? That was my question. You are discussing a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur. These are not the same as Vatican approved apparitions. Do not get confused by the two.
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It is approved by leaders within the Catholic Church, just not in the same way as others, though it might one day, so it is currently approved what? Fiction that does not go against faith or morals? If so, you can believe that it is, or that the Church plays it safe, and are hesitant to fully endorse many apparitions, so they leave it up to the individual faithful on what to believe. But, even that position is saying a lot, because to me, if they thought it was fiction, why would they allow people to entertain the idea that it could be real?
 
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Lunam_Meam said:
It is approved by leaders within the Catholic Church, just not in the same way as others, though it might one day, so it is currently approved what? Fiction that does not go against faith or morals? If so, you can believe that it is, or that the Church plays it safe, and are hesitant to fully endorse many apparitions, so they leave it up to the individual faithful on what to believe. But, even that position is saying a lot, because to me, if they thought it was fiction, why would they allow people to entertain the idea that it could be real?
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You are avoiding my question, Is it an approved apparition, no ifs , buts, or anything else.

Is it Vatican approved as is Fatima, Lourdes, Kibeho, Akita.
 
If your existence is based on a temporal frame of reference, then yes with the passage of Time and we experiencing change we can gain knowledge. This is how our ancestors for example gained the knowledge of the seasons, the movement of the stars in heaven and so on.
But the Angels do not live in our material Universe. Do not experience the passage of Time. Therefore their knowledge comes directly from GOD. They received all the possible knowledge they would ever need.
Then they made a free choice. How can you say they are not morally responsible?
When I drive on the road and see a red light, if I choose to run it am I morally responsible for that choice or not?
I base my decision on the accumulated knowledge I possess that started even before my birth. If GOD had infused me with the totality of the knowledge HE knows I would possess at the end of my life, would running the red light be my fault or GOD’s.
Peace.
 
Where would I go to find out? Could you assist me please? I am not sure of the best means to verify.
 
Lunam_Meam said:
if they thought it was fiction, why would they allow people to entertain the idea that it could be real?
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If it is something that does not oppose faith and morals then it does not need to be denounced, but that does not establish verity, so it could be fiction or real.
 
True, but if it explicitly lays out the lives of Jesus and Mary, and not denounce faith or morals. Not sure I could imagine a fictional four book series of their lives which include quotes that wouldn’t violate faith or morals if they weren’t true.

Purely my opinion only, of course.
 
AHapka said:
True, but if it explicitly lays out the lives of Jesus and Mary, and not denounce faith or morals. Not sure I could imagine a fictional four book series of their lives which include quotes that wouldn’t violate faith or morals if they weren’t true.

Purely my opinion only, of course.
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However even if one person could not imagine it does not mean another can’t imagine it.
 
Jews believe that only humans have free will, not angels. Therefore, they believe HaSatan did not fall. I think Catholics believe angels do have free will and that Satan fell because of his pride.
 
The spiritual world is vast and complex. It’s impossible to fully understand. As you can tell, it’s harder to explain.

If it helps, Saint Thomas tells us that although angels do not experience time as we do. They do have an understanding of order.
 
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I deduce that the spiritual word is vast and complex from examining the physical world. Our world is studied by scientists. Scientists have specialties and sub specialties, and further specialisation. It is so complex that one individual can only understand one small aspect. We can definitely tell the creator has a huge imagination and attention to detail.

This world is nothing compared to the next. We are metaphorically living in God’s guest house. The mansion that awaits is most surely more vast and complex.

Theology is taking what we know is true and applying logic to gain further understanding. Our teaching about angels largely comes from theologians. They apply their logic and best thinking to form postulates. They are not certain.
 
GOD Alone lives in the eternal now with no past or future.
The Angels are creatures just like you and me. Except that they live outside of Time. they are not a part of our Universe.
So even though they do not experience Time they were created just like the Universe was created.
Peace!
 
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