How did the faith come to be seen this way?

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Morgan_Hiver

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I am only 28. All in my family were raised Catholic. My grandmother grew up in a Catholic orphanage. My grandmother was very devout but only went to Church on holidays. My mother and her brothers feel that they are doing right by God by just living life without hurting others or stealing. It seems like just about everyone I know born in the 60s, who are supposed to be Catholic, all share similar views. My teacher went to a Catholic college to get her nursing degree and worked in Catholic hospitals but she keeps preaching about how there can’t be one right answer when it comes to religion…just personal preferences.

How did it come to be that people pick and choose what they wish to believe in and feel that they are entitled to do so and still be good Catholics? Was it always this way? I am sure it was like this to a certain extent but it just seems so outlandish now.

I too am a sinner but I know that I need to learn to accept/follow what the Church says IS the word of GOD and that I am offending GOD by not adhering to all laws. I truly do wish to be obedient but it is a struggle.

I know I am not alone in this, but maybe the others are just giving up too easily?
 
WOW! I thought it was just *MY *mom!

She was born in the 30’s and is only through my assistance learning what it means to be a Catholic.

It’s SO embarrassing when I take her with me (I’m her care-giver) to bible studies with other denominations and she spouts things like “I’m Catholic - we don’t read the Bible”. It’s outrageous. I figured she just somehow missed the whole point, now you make me wonder.
 
InspiritCarol said:
WOW! “I’m Catholic - we don’t read the Bible”. It’s outrageous.
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That’s a fail.

A good Catholic should respond "We don’t read the bible with our own interpretations, but the way the church uses it to teach morals and social justice.
 
Faith is a very personal thing,and not many want to talk about it,still,they can show their faith in their life thru the example they give. Not attending mass is consider a “bad” example,and it sure is. But there might be a reason for it,and it may even be a good and maybe almost valid. However,to practice your faith you must live whit and inside the church. That can sometimes be impossible due to a number of reasons. It is,in this case,a need to say that those who have converted are “better” catholics,they attend mass more often,and they live a life dedicated to their faith,and it goes beyond Christianity,it as thing that happen in all the religious movements. Being born catholic means that you are raise by the faith your parents show you,and what you do with that example is pretty much your own way to live. I reckon all catholics knows that you actually need a permission to “skip” mass,not that any priest or bishop are using that anymore,but it is in the law of the church. Your question are good,and a question we face many many times in our life. “How to look at faith?” Faith is a thing we can’t see,smell or taste. Faith comes from our soul and mind. The best catholic I ever have had the honor to know was my college professor from law-school. He never went to church,but every day he used two hours on reading the Bible and praying. I once asked him about this,and he answered “you see young man,faith does not need a church or a priest,faith needs God and you.” Then I thought that was a not stupid but strange answer. Later on I have discover that he was not so wrong. He did look at his faith in the best way he knew,and in the same time did let me know that God does not measure faith by how often you attend mass,pray or follow the church. One can go to church every day,and that does not proof anything. You must ask yourself why are you going to church,because you want to show how devoted you are? That does not show that all,it is what you do to others that shows that. Do you go to church because that was what your family did teach you? In that case you do because you are use to. Do you go to church cause you want to show others how devoted you are? Well,sorry to say,but if that is the case you can stay home because God knows anyway why you come to church. If the amount of time you spend in the church would be the key to heaven you are wrong,it is the strength in your faith that gives you that key. I am **not in any way defending those who not attend mass,**so don’t get my wrong,I think we all should attend mass at least twice a week,and and on every holiday connected with the church. At the same time we must also understand that if we spend,let’s say three hours a week in mass,we are living as catholics [outside the church] 165 hours,that means that we are good catholics,if the amount of time I spend in mass is the only time we think it is OK I rather not go to church at all. I want,need and must follow Jesus because I am a catholic,and what counts is how you do it. To impress others by how often I go to mass would be my key to heaven I would be a very “bad” catholic. So take it easy son,if you want to attend mass,do so,that is what we should,but don’t go only to “show off” or even try to make God thinking “now,there is a good Christian” because it don’t work that way. Our faith is what we do to others,to our self and how we love our neighbor. God bless.
 
The faith came to be seen this way because that is how it was lived. Even if Vatican II had never occurred, the 1960’s were a time of radical Enlightenment advances. Secularism exploded by leaps and bounds, and nothing the Church could have done would have stopped it. Our Western Society had just become so decadent from centuries of building and progress that it exploded into outright radicalism. Even the Church of God must be assailed by such great evils in its time, because it is a physical reality - though it remains holy.

Fifty years of Western Civilisation have just been a straight mudslide downward. It has been one thing after another: the Pill, Abortion, more usury in the financial world, etc., have become lords and masters of Earth. The World has always rejected virtue and piety on the whole; just look at all the public houses and brothels in ancient Rome! Most people can’t be bothered with religion, generally. This did not hurt when most people were not interested in voting, of course; however, as democracy has come to be seen as the pinnacle of everything since the 1960’s, everyone thinks they have to impose their own immorality on governments.

There is just a general explosion of stupidity and immorality going on. I fell for it quite happily for 20 years, and still am controlled by many animalistic passions. The difference between Christians and “normal” people (“Christians” included) is that the former really try. We have a civilisation of people who don’t try anymore. Look at the way Christian holidays have been turned into nothing by the West. We don’t respect our own history or the facts of Heaven.
 
I’ve got to agree with GloriousOrder. I think a lot of people were misdirected by the upheaval of the 1960s. Especially those that were in their formative years during that time. They were probably raised to not question what their priests/religious tell them. Then you get liberal priests preaching error from the pulpit - can you imagine the confusion that caused?
 
Good points all.
I was raised a lutheran and confirmed in 1963. I recall little, if any, of it because it meant so little to me. My parents had stopped going to church and just sent us.
After the baptism and confirmation, I went on a downhill superslide of hedonism that lasted through most of my life. Oh, I believed in God, in an abstract sort of way, but did not feel any connection to Him in any way.
I’ve been a Catholic for 12 years now and often wonder if I had been raised a Catholic by involved Catholic parents, if I’d have lived as I did for so long. I was tugged by my heart into The Catholic Church and all She is and represents. Had I been connected to God and grounded as a youth to HMC, I think I would have lived differently.
I don’t know. It *was *the 1960s.
 
PLAT said:
That’s a fail.

A good Catholic should respond "We don’t read the bible with our own interpretations, but the way the church uses it to teach morals and social justice.
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Not to worry, PLATT. Mom’s not really “with it” so what she says can be easily taken as demented ramblings; especially in light of the fact that both my husband and I know the Bible - (the *real *Bible, not the eviscerated form the Protestants use ;)) - at least as well, if not better than our Evangelical friends.

Now that’s NOT fair to say that that is the case with most Catholics I’ve known … still, I generally don’t mention that.

In any case, our general response is: no mom, *you *don’t read the Bible. We don’t have to go farther than that.

While you are absolutely right, PLATT, the response you have posted is uncharitable and argumentative in most circumstances. It shuts down the dialog instantly. If you hope to have and maintain a long-term dialog (we’re talking years here), it is best to work around to the whole: “you’re all a bunch of self-aggrandizing know-nothings” topic… gently and lovingly.
 
Morgan_Hiver said:
I am only 28. All in my family were raised Catholic. My grandmother grew up in a Catholic orphanage. My grandmother was very devout but only went to Church on holidays. My mother and her brothers feel that they are doing right by God by just living life without hurting others or stealing. It seems like just about everyone I know born in the 60s, who are supposed to be Catholic, all share similar views. My teacher went to a Catholic college to get her nursing degree and worked in Catholic hospitals but she keeps preaching about how there can’t be one right answer when it comes to religion…just personal preferences.

How did it come to be that people pick and choose what they wish to believe in and feel that they are entitled to do so and still be good Catholics? Was it always this way? I am sure it was like this to a certain extent but it just seems so outlandish now.

I too am a sinner but I know that I need to learn to accept/follow what the Church says IS the word of GOD and that I am offending GOD by not adhering to all laws. I truly do wish to be obedient but it is a struggle.

I know I am not alone in this, but maybe the others are just giving up too easily?
Click to expand...
The late 1960s introduced people to alternative lifestyles. A small group of Hippies tried to comvince us Catholics that we were sexually repressed or just wrong about some things. A guy I knew in the early 1970s and who went to my Catholic school, started to live with his girlfriend. I told him why he shouldn’t and his reply? “But we love each other!” Yeah? Then get married.

In the 1970s, so-called Adult Bookstores opened everywhere selling pictures of prostitutes. And when Christians protested, we got: “We have the First Amendment right!” The same with strip clubs and topless bars.

Then in 1973, abortion was legalized.

In the 1980s, No-Fault Divorce and porn on cable. Catholic ideas?

People began to lose a sense of guilt and sin because we were constantly told: Leave us alone! You can’t tell us what to do!

By the 1990s, too many people were shacking up and going in their own direction, Churches emptied and mall parking lots filled up.

Also in the 1990s, the Nativity in front of the local City Hall came under attack. The American Civil Liberties Union woke up one day and said, “That’s unconstitutional! It’s got to go!” So in order to appease the ACLU, some cities simply leased some land nearby to display the Nativity. Then the ACLU offered them a deal: “OK. You can keep your creche, just surround it with plastic reindeer and plastic candy canes and a plastic Santa and it will be OK.” So they did. Jesus became another Christmas ornament.

Christianity was being criticized as divisive and backward and too judgmental. People needed to be free to do whatever. Then the internet came along.

Now Oprah is telling people there is no one path to God. They exchanged the truth for a lie. Deception is the devil’s primary weapon.

Peace,
Ed
 
catsrus said:
Good points all.
I was raised a lutheran and confirmed in 1963. I recall little, if any, of it because it meant so little to me. My parents had stopped going to church and just sent us.
After the baptism and confirmation, I went on a downhill superslide of hedonism that lasted through most of my life. Oh, I believed in God, in an abstract sort of way, but did not feel any connection to Him in any way.
I’ve been a Catholic for 12 years now and often wonder if I had been raised a Catholic by involved Catholic parents, if I’d have lived as I did for so long. I was tugged by my heart into The Catholic Church and all She is and represents. Had I been connected to God and grounded as a youth to HMC, I think I would have lived differently.
I don’t know. It *was *the 1960s.
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I was there. We trusted people we should not have. Our sense of trust and compassion were abused. We didn’t recognize the wolves in sheeps’ clothing. The transition in the media from wholesome entertainment to gradual additions of sexuality turned into the hypersexual media culture we have today. At first, in the 1970s, it didn’t seem that bad, but it slowly, gradually got worse and some of us stayed along for the ride.

Thank God you are Catholic. And I thank God for the wonderful Catholic adults I had as role models during the 1960s.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
I was there. We trusted people we should not have.
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I was there too as adult in the sixties. Hungary was totally different. We did not trusted the owners of the media, and rejected their ideas. For this reason the downfall in Hungary started only when the Communism was gone in 1990.

Over there we believed that the US is an example, and I still believe it was and is much better than Western Europe.

One more thing what, I believe, I had to tell about the critics of parents and grandparents:

Gen 9:21 And drinking of the wine was made drunk, and was uncovered in his tent. 22 Which when Cham the father of Chanaan had seen, to wit, that his father’s nakedness was uncovered, he told it to his two brethren without. 23 But Sem and Japheth put a cloak upon their shoulders, and going backward, covered the nakedness of their father: and their faces were turned away, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. 24 And Noe awaking from the wine, when he had learned what his younger son had done to him, 25 He said: Cursed be Chanaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Not one will be better by despising his elders.
 
Morgan_Hiver said:
I am only 28. All in my family were raised Catholic. My grandmother grew up in a Catholic orphanage. My grandmother was very devout but only went to Church on holidays. My mother and her brothers feel that they are doing right by God by just living life without hurting others or stealing. It seems like just about everyone I know born in the 60s, who are supposed to be Catholic, all share similar views. My teacher went to a Catholic college to get her nursing degree and worked in Catholic hospitals but she keeps preaching about how there can’t be one right answer when it comes to religion…just personal preferences.

How did it come to be that people pick and choose what they wish to believe in and feel that they are entitled to do so and still be good Catholics? Was it always this way? I am sure it was like this to a certain extent but it just seems so outlandish now.

I too am a sinner but I know that I need to learn to accept/follow what the Church says IS the word of GOD and that I am offending GOD by not adhering to all laws. I truly do wish to be obedient but it is a struggle.

I know I am not alone in this, but maybe the others are just giving up too easily?
Click to expand...
Because for all the preaching about a “better way of life” and “putting fellow man first” the liberal ideology of the 60’s was really about the most supreme selfishness. By preaching this everyone is OK crud it primarly, frees us to do whatever we want.

Reminds me of the Pontiffs evaluation of the Brother who stayed with his father, in the parable of the prodigal son. He betrays his jelousy of the brother who left, his own personal desire for the same kind of licentous freedom that prodigal son experienced when he left his father. How? But complaining “I have been with you all this time…”. It betrays that he doesn’t understand the freedom he had with his father, that indeed he see’s staying with his father as a burden, not a freedom.
 
Morgan_Hiver said:
. It seems like just about everyone I know born in the 60s, who are supposed to be Catholic, all share similar views.
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Now you know someone who doesn’t!

Just ask anyone here - LOL!

I agree with everthing the other posters have written, but want to add one thing from my experience.

I never preferred the new services, or the mindset behind it. I always liked the old churches and the organ, and I grew up in a mixed religion, politically liberal (if not leftist) family.

When I was a kid, I recall going to Sunday School and the teacher was extolling the memory of Hubert Humphry. “I’m missing a sermon about the Bible for this nonsense?” is what I thought. (This allusion to a mid-century non-entity is leading up to a point).

When I was old enough to be an altar boy, I noticed the priest kept changing the words in the mass. I loved the priest, and he was one of the kindest and most generous men I have ever known. But I saw a different side of him the day I brought a copy of the pope’s encyclical to the sacristy and told him he wasn’t doing the service right. I do not relate this story to make you think ill of him = please don’t. He is a great man, as are all the priests who stood by their vows in the 1970s and 1980s, regardless of their stance on tradition. I relate the story only to make clear the depth of feeling people had about the reforms.

At Catholic school, the rosary, the Latin mass, cassocks, everything was traditional was mocked by the teachers. There was no - I mean nada- support for tradition. Oddly, when I voiced a contrary view, in my still unbroken voice, I was reminded, often pointedly, of the one piece of tradition that they had no intention of abandoning:

Obedience.

My friends, the revolution was enforced by every means at hand.
 
Everyone seems to have very similar answers. I kind of figured that these would be the typical responses. The 60s really marked the beginning of a new era.

As for people around my age, I really feel that we are suffering the most. Our parents told us that we were Catholics growing up but never showed us what it meant to be one. Never taught that our faith is unique. We were brought up to believe it was ok to skip mass on a regular basis…I didnt even have my first confession until I was 24. My teacher is Baby boomer and she openly mocks tradition. She brags about how she respectfully stood up to the strict priests and nuns when she became an adult. I honestly feel that the changes made by Vatican II contributed to this. When the church that the Lord in the flesh started goes ahead and admits fault to what protestants have been accusing it of for centuries then how do you expect others to take pride in their faith? We are told that every religion has truth to it…our mass is virtually identical to protestant masses. I really don’t think that the majority of the baby boomers know what to believe and because of this our beloved Catholic faith is falling apart as years pass by.

Can there ever be a revival?
 
I understand your position, First, all Catholics must realize that the changes attributed to Vatican II were not even suggested by Vatican II:

catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1145

The next thing Catholics need to know is how, under the idea of Freedom in the 1960s, some of our Catholic institutions went in the wrong direction.

catholichistory.net/Events/LandOLakesStatement.htm

Or the Winnipeg Statement of 1968:

catholicinsight.com/online/church/humanae/1968wpeg.shtml

Here, Father Corapi talks about the Winnipeg Statement:

youtube.com/watch?v=jo0ElZMS7EY

The Church was the victim of a coordinated attack in the late 1960s.

Peace,
Ed
 
Morgan_Hiver said:
I am only 28. All in my family were raised Catholic. My grandmother grew up in a Catholic orphanage. My grandmother was very devout but only went to Church on holidays. My mother and her brothers feel that they are doing right by God by just living life without hurting others or stealing. It seems like just about everyone I know born in the 60s, who are supposed to be Catholic, all share similar views. My teacher went to a Catholic college to get her nursing degree and worked in Catholic hospitals but she keeps preaching about how there can’t be one right answer when it comes to religion…just personal preferences.

How did it come to be that people pick and choose what they wish to believe in and feel that they are entitled to do so and still be good Catholics? Was it always this way? I am sure it was like this to a certain extent but it just seems so outlandish now.

I too am a sinner but I know that I need to learn to accept/follow what the Church says IS the word of GOD and that I am offending GOD by not adhering to all laws. I truly do wish to be obedient but it is a struggle.

I know I am not alone in this, but maybe the others are just giving up too easily?
Click to expand...
They are young. Pay them no mind. They prolly voted for Mondale and Dukakis!
 
GloriousOrder said:
The faith came to be seen this way because that is how it was lived. Even if Vatican II had never occurred, the 1960’s were a time of radical Enlightenment advances. Secularism exploded by leaps and bounds, and nothing the Church could have done would have stopped it. Our Western Society had just become so decadent from centuries of building and progress that it exploded into outright radicalism. Even the Church of God must be assailed by such great evils in its time, because it is a physical reality - though it remains holy.

Fifty years of Western Civilisation have just been a straight mudslide downward. It has been one thing after another: the Pill, Abortion, more usury in the financial world, etc., have become lords and masters of Earth. The World has always rejected virtue and piety on the whole; just look at all the public houses and brothels in ancient Rome! Most people can’t be bothered with religion, generally. This did not hurt when most people were not interested in voting, of course; however, as democracy has come to be seen as the pinnacle of everything since the 1960’s, everyone thinks they have to impose their own immorality on governments.

There is just a general explosion of stupidity and immorality going on. I fell for it quite happily for 20 years, and still am controlled by many animalistic passions. The difference between Christians and “normal” people (“Christians” included) is that the former really try. We have a civilisation of people who don’t try anymore. Look at the way Christian holidays have been turned into nothing by the West. We don’t respect our own history or the facts of Heaven.
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Nice post. Might I add, the skewed view of Christianity today is thanks to the media. Many people get their catechisis from TV and movies, and oftentimes the Christianity protrayed in the media is more Protestant than Catholic. A lot of people then get an impression that what is on TV is what the Catholic Church is. Thanks to the many decades of TV Evangelists, the popular opinion of Christianity is not skewed to what they made of it that even Catholics believe them over our own Church.

It would be nice if Catholics are represented more accurately in media to at least give us a fair depiction. But it hardly is the case.
 
Just like we need good food to function well, we need Catholic media:

ncregister.com/

Our mental landscape needs to be cleaned up.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Just like we need good food to function well, we need Catholic media:

ncregister.com/

Our mental landscape needs to be cleaned up.

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
We’ve always had a wealth of Catholic media. But most people, even Catholics, don’t refer to them much. Its the secular depiction that we need to fix. Funny how in action films they’ll get bomb experts and ex-military men as consultants so they can make the fights look realistic and accurate. I’m sure for a fraction of the cost as donation to a parish, they can ask a priest to go over their scenes which involves Catholicism and have him verify the accuracy. Either they are not interested in depicting Catholicism accurately, or they really intend to paint a different picture of Catholicism.
 
Too many of us are conditioned by the media. We have allowed ourselves to be fed primarily by it.

As you know, the media is hypersexualized. On Desperate Housewives, there was a good depiction of a priest but his words did not change the behavior of the character involved. We need more than accurate portrayals. Who are our role models today? Movies from the 1940s, 50s and 60s had some good role models.

What is a police officer? Dirty Harry?

Peace,
Ed
 
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