How did the legalization of divorce affect your families and country (a question for CA members who live in countries where divorce is legal)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ma.Eugenia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Ma.Eugenia

Guest
My country is the last one standing against divorce (in the world), so says a front page news article last week.

I am very concerned why two very anti-family bills (in my opinion) are being actively pursued by some of our lawmakers at this time. I already know where I stand on the controversial Reproductive Health Bill as I am with the Church in their stand against it. Regarding divorce however, I would like to get opinions from those who live in countries that have long legalized divorce so that I can understand better how such a law affected their lives and their country.

My questions are:
  1. How did the legalization of divorce affect family life in your country?
  2. How did it affect society in your country in general?
  3. In your opinion, in the long run, was the legalization of divorce good or bad for your country?
I come from a country where we have close family ties and extended families (uncles, aunts, cousins—whatever degree they are) are valued. I am afraid that this will all change if this divorce bill is passed.

Hope some Catholic Answers members who are currently living in countries where divorce is already legal can help me get a better perspective on this issue.
 
I think every country is different.

Divorse in nortic country that is already very liberal may actually encourage marriage rather than co-habitation.

Divorse in a baltic or pacific islander country may be neutral…allowing abused of both genders to leave legally.

Divorse in a middle eastern country may benefit women beyond anything, so long as they are allowed to work.

Divorse in a modern european country spells out civil disaster.
 
Poland. Very direct impact but would prefer not to go into details.
 
I don’t know. There are certainly a lot of divorced people, but was this good or bad? From what I can see in many countries that do not allow it, it still doesn’t stop the social changes. People just live with someone they are not married to in adultery, or they stop getting married at all. THat is a problem because then there is no legal protection for the people involved.

What I think is that legal divorce is simply recognition that there is a marriage break-down, that people are not living together as spouses.
 
Here in the USA, I get the impression, which may not be true, that the concept of “No-Fault Divorce” has led to “No-responsability Divorce”. Many women (but of course not all) are forced into poverty. Trying to collect child support can be a hit-or-miss affair. 😦

Of course, throughout history, and even today, there is an easy way to get rid of a spouse. Desertion. Walk away from it and try not to be found. Especially if you are poor.😦
 
The trouble with no-fault divorce is that it makes marriage vows legally meaningless.
“Till death do us part?” Well, we might say that, but with no fault divorce either party can walk away at any time for any reason. It’s less binding than your auto loan.
 
It’s kind of hard to say, because in the US it started out that divorce was hard to get and socially very bad. Divorced people were regarded suspiciously or badly.

I think divorce started to become somewhat more common after WW2, because a lot of people married hastily before a young man went off to war, and also separation is very hard on a marriage even under the best of circumstances.

OTOH, there were people who were stuck in very bad marriages. Women in bad marriages were in particularly bad positions well into tbe 1900s because custody was usually awarded to the husband, and women had fewer options than men if they were to divorce.

I think that back then, because people were more stable (not moving so often or so far away from their families or hometowns), there were other factors. One is that people knew each other’s backgrounds better. That was a big help in terms of choosing a spouse.

Additionally, if a husband mistreated his wife, his wife’s relatives were around to help him understand that he had to stop.

In the 1960s, the advent of the Pill and the loosening of restrictions on birth control in general really changed people’s perceptions of sex and marriage. Sex became a recreational activity completely disconnected from prpcreation, and people began to behave badly.

and people’s ideas changed too (imo) as a result of dating. Dating is like serial monogamy, just break up when the gf or bf no longer pleases. Our ideas of the purpose of marriage totally changed, and we were supposed to be fulfilled in oir marriages.

And welfare was given out more, it became easier to get…

So divorce begam to be no-fault divorce, which was supposed to be a good thing to reduce the antagonism but ended up being that a marriage could end whenever one person felt like getting out.

So divorce in and of itself, used wisely, is not necessarily bad, but birth control and easy divorce are both just awful.

In my own family, I think there has only been one divorce, but among people of my generation, I have seen a lot of devastation. All too often, the women, who can usually get state aid, initiate the separation. Because of the increased licentiousness of society, sometimes women take this step because the husband is behaving badly, but in my very limited experience, women sometimes just become tired of the restrictions of marriage as well. When this happens, it’s like the husband is completely tossed oit of his own family. It can be very devastating for him, which people don’t really get because men tend not to emote.

In addition, children lose their fathers. It was a couple of decades before oir society realized this; first we said, children are resilient, they can handle ot, it’s better than being in a contentious household… then we started finding out that those children as adults had trust issues, difficulties in their marriages (the women I knew who divorced both had their parents divorce).

But even worse is that there are way too many cases of abuse of children and young adolescents by stepfathers and live-in boyfriends of their mothers. This apparently happens as a result of these types of men moving in on that type of situation, iyswim. I hate to see statistics where they just lump in real fathers with these secondary father-figures, because the rate of abuse by biological fathers (or even father figures from when the child was a baby), is way, way lower, but the info separated like that is difficult to find.

So all in all, abc and easy divorce are bad things, but what you might the abuse of them comes from people who are already losing their morality. It’s really an interior thing, and the environmental factors play into the deterioration, but it is people who make decisions. The tendency to move around in the US rose gradually over the whole 20th century, and that added a lot to things falling apart.
 
Architects of no-fault reforms claimed they wanted to avoid belligerent couples throwing accusations around, lying, staging things to get that divorce and so on, so they supposedly went for a less combative solution. I could possibly see them as having been well-meaning in that, albeit wrong on some of the premises.

Fault divorce is wrong too, by the way. According to the Catechism, divorce is tolerated when it is the only way to protect certain rights. But separation may well be sufficient. When separation is sufficient because it will allow for separate living, not being responsible for debts from now on etc., then separation is IMHO the only way to go, wheras the added benefit of divorce, in the form of reinstating the legally single status (not bound, free to marry if wanted) is very troubling from the Catholic standpoint the way I see it.

So, fault separation, maybe. But the actual ground is danger, not fault, except maybe adultery, in which case, yeah, it’s more fault than danger. But divorce, in the understanding of terminating the legal bond and being totally free of each other in the eyes of the state? Nope.
 
I see what you re saying; I was just thinking that the issues such as division of assets and protection from debt, etc, were covered in the divorce part, but what you suggest makes a lot of sense.

And certainly part of the appeal of divorce is that one can attempt marriage again. Were one to be unable to do that, the divorce rate wpuld be much lower, I’m sure.
 
Sometimes I wonder, whatever happened to “What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”

Don’t people take that seriously anymore? 😦
 
Ma.Eugenia said:
Sometimes I wonder, whatever happened to “What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”

Don’t people take that seriously anymore? 😦
Click to expand...
Yes, they are few and far between though.

I am divorced in a secular court and without getting too personal, I’ll just say that it was not by my choice. I have however, embraced the fact that although the civil marriage contract has ended, I am still under the obligations of the sacramental bonds of matrimony. To be crystal clear, that means no sex, no dating and a very real effort to protect purity in light of the fact that I am now effectively a celibate man. I have to be careful about converstions, friendships and relationships with women at work, Church, etc., being careful not to get too familar, too affectionate, or emotionally attached. Takes a lot of prayer sometimes…

Part of the reason I have made this decision is because I raise my two daughters full time, 24x7x365. I want them to see how important marriage is, that it is not something which can just be thrown away. I’m trying to be a witness to the faith for them.

Responses have been mixed the few times I have explained this to anyone, which have usually been in response to well meaning comments like “I’m sure you will meet someone, if it is God’s will.” I’m very close friends with a Methodist Pastor, who is divorced as well, and we have had some wonderful conversations around this subject from a biblical and very pragmatic perspective. My own mom however, though she respects my position, really can’t understand. She doesn’t want me to be loneley, I guess. Mostly people are a little shocked. My Evangelical friend, though he doesn’t agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about the indisolubility and sacramentality of marriage, said that he respects the the way I am trying to stay true to my faith.

I’ve heard of a group on Italy which supports those who struggle to stay true to their marriage vows in the face of civil divorce and know that they have a book which was translated into English. Other than that, I have never heard the subject brough up in conversation anywhere, know of no support structure Catholic or othewise in the USA and I don’t know anyone personally who feels the same way or has made the same decision.

Anyway, it’s not easy. I’m no angel and I don’t mean to put myself out there as such, but I have become more comfortable with stating the fact that I am trying to stay true to my marriage vows even in the face of civil divorce as a way to witenss.

There are people out there trying their best.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Yes, they are few and far between though.

I am divorced in a secular court and without getting too personal, I’ll just say that it was not by my choice. I have however, embraced the fact that although the civil marriage contract has ended, I am still under the obligations of the sacramental bonds of matrimony. To be crystal clear, that means no sex, no dating and a very real effort to protect purity in light of the fact that I am now effectively a celibate man. I have to be careful about converstions, friendships and relationships with women at work, Church, etc., being careful not to get too familar, too affectionate, or emotionally attached. Takes a lot of prayer sometimes…

Part of the reason I have made this decision is because I raise my two daughters full time, 24x7x365. I want them to see how important marriage is, that it is not something which can just be thrown away. I’m trying to be a witness to the faith for them.

Responses have been mixed the few times I have explained this to anyone, which have usually been in response to well meaning comments like “I’m sure you will meet someone, if it is God’s will.” I’m very close friends with a Methodist Pastor, who is divorced as well, and we have had some wonderful conversations around this subject from a biblical and very pragmatic perspective. My own mom however, though she respects my position, really can’t understand. She doesn’t want me to be loneley, I guess. Mostly people are a little shocked. My Evangelical friend, though he doesn’t agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about the indisolubility and sacramentality of marriage, said that he respects the the way I am trying to stay true to my faith.

I’ve heard of a group on Italy which supports those who struggle to stay true to their marriage vows in the face of civil divorce and know that they have a book which was translated into English. Other than that, I have never heard the subject brough up in conversation anywhere, know of no support structure Catholic or othewise in the USA and I don’t know anyone personally who feels the same way or has made the same decision.

Anyway, it’s not easy. I’m no angel and I don’t mean to put myself out there as such, but I have become more comfortable with stating the fact that I am trying to stay true to my marriage vows even in the face of civil divorce as a way to witenss.

There are people out there trying their best.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Your situation as you describe it seems remarkable in today’s social environment, yet before divorce became so rampant, it was actually a rather common understanding of marriage, from both a Catholic and Protestant perspective.

The admonition “What God has joined together let no man put asunder,” was taken quite seriously. One entered into marriage knowing that nothing could separate the spouses, only death. That understanding actually enhanced marriage, because if it was understood from the outset, then both parties realized that they must be firmly committed to each other no matter what. And commitment enhances love and makes it grow.

Now both among Catholics and Protestants, it seems that the phrase “till death do us part,” is never taken at face value, and the parties have an the understanding in the back of their minds, even if not outwardly recognizing it, that there is always an escape clause. And an escape clause, of its very nature, undermines marriage. It can even become a self-fulfilling reason for nullity.
 
TimothyH said:
Yes, they are few and far between though.

I am divorced in a secular court and without getting too personal, I’ll just say that it was not by my choice. I have however, embraced the fact that although the civil marriage contract has ended, I am still under the obligations of the sacramental bonds of matrimony. To be crystal clear, that means no sex, no dating and a very real effort to protect purity in light of the fact that I am now effectively a celibate man. I have to be careful about converstions, friendships and relationships with women at work, Church, etc., being careful not to get too familar, too affectionate, or emotionally attached. Takes a lot of prayer sometimes…

Part of the reason I have made this decision is because I raise my two daughters full time, 24x7x365. I want them to see how important marriage is, that it is not something which can just be thrown away. I’m trying to be a witness to the faith for them.

Responses have been mixed the few times I have explained this to anyone, which have usually been in response to well meaning comments like “I’m sure you will meet someone, if it is God’s will.” I’m very close friends with a Methodist Pastor, who is divorced as well, and we have had some wonderful conversations around this subject from a biblical and very pragmatic perspective. My own mom however, though she respects my position, really can’t understand. She doesn’t want me to be loneley, I guess. Mostly people are a little shocked. My Evangelical friend, though he doesn’t agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about the indisolubility and sacramentality of marriage, said that he respects the the way I am trying to stay true to my faith.

I’ve heard of a group on Italy which supports those who struggle to stay true to their marriage vows in the face of civil divorce and know that they have a book which was translated into English. Other than that, I have never heard the subject brough up in conversation anywhere, know of no support structure Catholic or othewise in the USA and I don’t know anyone personally who feels the same way or has made the same decision.

Anyway, it’s not easy. I’m no angel and I don’t mean to put myself out there as such, but I have become more comfortable with stating the fact that I am trying to stay true to my marriage vows even in the face of civil divorce as a way to witenss.

There are people out there trying their best.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
I agree with what JimG said.

I think your resolve to keep faithful to your marriage vows despite a divorce is remarkable and admirable, especially in this day and age. I pray that you’d be able to withstand the pressures that society may put on you.

Jesus never said that being a Christian is easy. Many passages in the Bible indicate that the path is fraught with many difficuties. But we should not worry…because God sent us the Holy Spirit to be with us…and Mama Mary too! 😃

I was listening to a Catholic radio talk show a few weeks ago in my dad’s car and one of the speakers said that out of all the sacraments of the church…it is only in marriage that the priest is not the officiating party. The priest stands only as witness to the marriage. It is the couple who are officiators in the wedding. The vow made during marriage is between the marrying couple and God.

I believe that such promise to our Lord God —the Creator of all things visible and invisible— should carry a very, very heavy weight in married couples’ consciousness and conscience.

I believe that when we go out of our way to break our bond and vows with our Lord, we allow the evil one to enter our lives and society and then many more bad things happen, even worst things as a consequence of these. Example: Some divorces can lead to maladjusted, problematic children…and then it becomes a cycle…the basic unit of society will fall…and there will be a lot. lot more problems that society will have to deal with.

Of course, I am not saying all divorces end up with children like these…but if you look at the history of such children, many of them can trace their problems to problems with family life.

Dysfunctional families already exists in our society, but I believe that their numbers will multiply exponentially if a divorce bill is passed.

Please help me pray that my country will remain standing against the divorce bandwagon.
I will pray for you too, Tim.

Thanks. 🙂
 
Society in the Philippines is already liberal enough. There are a number of couples who are living together and having children without getting married, or one or both have separated from their spouse. I don’t think divorce in the Philippines wouldn’t change anything in that regard. Those who already want to end their marriage do so even though there is no legal way to do it. Don’t tell me you don’t know anyone who has left their wives or husbands for another man/woman? Or two never-before-married cohabiting. There is also a high instance of unmarried mothers who eventually never marries or ends up marrying someone other than the man they had their first child with.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support legalizing divorce. I think its wonderful that we have upheld for so long this moral value with legal support. I’m just saying, our society has already been liberalized, I don’t expect much will change.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Society in the Philippines is already liberal enough. There are a number of couples who are living together and having children without getting married, or one or both have separated from their spouse. I don’t think divorce in the Philippines wouldn’t change anything in that regard. Those who already want to end their marriage do so even though there is no legal way to do it. Don’t tell me you don’t know anyone who has left their wives or husbands for another man/woman? Or two never-before-married cohabiting. There is also a high instance of unmarried mothers who eventually never marries or ends up marrying someone other than the man they had their first child with.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support legalizing divorce. I think its wonderful that we have upheld for so long this moral value with legal support. I’m just saying, our society has already been liberalized, I don’t expect much will change.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree …our society is getting more liberal by the day. In many ways, this is not a good thing because there seems to be a failure of implanting right values to some members.

I still believe that majority of our people believe in marriage and have the right values in place…but this divorce bill will hasten the liberalization of our society and the destruction of its basic unit-----the family. In the end, if passed, I believe, it will destroy the very moral fiber of our country.

Together with the RH bill, this divorce bill will hasten us towards a God-less society. 😦
 
TimothyH said:
Yes, they are few and far between though.

I am divorced in a secular court and without getting too personal, I’ll just say that it was not by my choice. I have however, embraced the fact that although the civil marriage contract has ended, I am still under the obligations of the sacramental bonds of matrimony. To be crystal clear, that means no sex, no dating and a very real effort to protect purity in light of the fact that I am now effectively a celibate man. I have to be careful about converstions, friendships and relationships with women at work, Church, etc., being careful not to get too familar, too affectionate, or emotionally attached. Takes a lot of prayer sometimes…

Part of the reason I have made this decision is because I raise my two daughters full time, 24x7x365. I want them to see how important marriage is, that it is not something which can just be thrown away. I’m trying to be a witness to the faith for them.

Responses have been mixed the few times I have explained this to anyone, which have usually been in response to well meaning comments like “I’m sure you will meet someone, if it is God’s will.” I’m very close friends with a Methodist Pastor, who is divorced as well, and we have had some wonderful conversations around this subject from a biblical and very pragmatic perspective. My own mom however, though she respects my position, really can’t understand. She doesn’t want me to be loneley, I guess. Mostly people are a little shocked. My Evangelical friend, though he doesn’t agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about the indisolubility and sacramentality of marriage, said that he respects the the way I am trying to stay true to my faith.

I’ve heard of a group on Italy which supports those who struggle to stay true to their marriage vows in the face of civil divorce and know that they have a book which was translated into English. Other than that, I have never heard the subject brough up in conversation anywhere, know of no support structure Catholic or othewise in the USA and I don’t know anyone personally who feels the same way or has made the same decision.

Anyway, it’s not easy. I’m no angel and I don’t mean to put myself out there as such, but I have become more comfortable with stating the fact that I am trying to stay true to my marriage vows even in the face of civil divorce as a way to witenss.

There are people out there trying their best.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
FWIW, Tim, I have a friend who is also doing this. So there is at least one other person out there doing this!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top