How did this happen?

[Memaw]

Well, he is not my friend, I saw this on TV a while ago, but it did bothering me, and yes, it is obvious he suffer from some mental problem, big ones, sad to say. Why I did post this story was because I think we Christians need to understand that not all find peace in our faith. To me my faith is what keep me going, but for someone else it is the beginning of decline. But I think the Church has a very big role in tragedies as this was/is. The Gospel is not the only thing needed in life. I do feel sorry for this chap though, with bad luck it could be about anyone of us.

Surprising that a TV show would supply you with such VIVID details except for a hatred for the Catholic Church and a means to try to downgrade it. Sounds a lot like one of those tracts from “The Conversion Center” in PA. God Bless, Memaw

P.S. Maybe you should pay heed to your last line,

“YOU WILL NOT GET FAR WITH A LIE”.

 

[Loving_disciple]

As usual I don’t know if this is the right forum but if not, move it.

There was this ordinary chap, nice home, three kids and a Volvo, a job he did like to do and a loving wife. Everything was as OK as it can. He was religious, not too much but he did attend Mass at least one Sunday every month, what church he went to was not important, all he wanted was to hear the Gospels and the homily. He did pray often and had even a Rosary because he had no problem in believing that Our Blessed Virgin do pray for us. One day he went to a Catholic Church and he did like the “feeling” there was. After a few years he was sure that he should convert, and that he did. He did not agree on every point but for him it was “all or nothing”. His wife did not convert, she was not the religious type, but had no problem with the fact that she now was married to a Catholic, and she did her best to adapt her husbands “new life”, she even stop taking “the pill” because she knew it was not what her husband wanted her to use them. A few years everything was as good as it could. But the more the man did read The Bible, the CCC and other books about the Catholic Faith, he started to feel depressed because he did start to see sin in almost everything he did or saw. He felt that the teachings become a heavy burden and could not cope anymore. He was sad and did not know what to do, he did talk to a priest but the more he did listen the more he did feel like the worst sinner on earth, even though he did not sin more then we all do. Every sin he confessed kept on bothering him more and more. He did not want to take the kids to the beach anymore because there was “temptations” no matter where he did look, and he was not able to watch the TV due to the fear that he maybe would see something not proper for a Catholic. And the clouds got even darker, he started to cry in his fear of hell and he did confess everything he did as a sin, the priest did what he could, but at some point this man could not attend Mass anymore because he feel he was not worthy to be in the Church anymore. And the more he did read the closer to hell he came. He lost his job because they did provide things that could be used in a sinful manner, the wife did not knew what to do, but she did convert as well in a effort to help her husband. He got more sure every day that no matter what he would do hell was his destination. At some point he could no longer go out because he was sure he would see women dress in a improper way, soon they had to move to a smaller flat, only his wife did get money, his depression did get deeper and deeper, and when all hope was gone he did remember that Christ did say that His burden is easy and light to carry. One day, after many hours of praying he knew what he needed to do, and he went to a Protestant Church and sat there listening to the Sunday homily, and he did realize one important thing, everything is not sin. Needless to say, he never did return to the Catholic Church, but something was still wrong, he was so much afraid of hell that the rest of his life was destroyed. His marriage fall apart, he could not get a job anymore and most likely live on social welfare now. Alas, this story is true, he had never any mental problem before this incident. One life lost, one broken marriage, three kids who hardly will ever see their dad anymore. So, is The RCC give us a to heavy burden to carry?

The burden the Catholic Church is the same burden Christ gives us. It sounds like this man forget how much Jesus loves him. If you focus to much on sin and forget love then you will be dragged down until you hit rock bottem.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I don’t think he had false humility or a form of pride. I think he suffered from being Scrupulous which is a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

He most likely doesn’t think he is “so special”, but truly suffering a mental disorder which caused him much pain.

I don’t dispute that it also sounds like OCD and/or some other mental illness was at work in this theoretical tv character. Wrong thinking and mental illness certainly are connected–because people who think correctly are mentally healthy (not mentally ill.) While the mentally ill may not have full faculties to properly determine right from wrong, those of us who* are* mentally healthy can.

The op said this man "did feel like the worst sinner on earth, even though he did not sin more then we all do. Every sin he confessed kept on bothering him more and more. "

“Worst sinner on earth?” Really??? He’s an ordinary guy with rather ordinary sins. It’s rather self-inflated to think oneself is capable of being the absolute worst sinner on earth. Mental health professionals diagnose those with an exaggerated sense of self as having mental illness too. If someone thinks he’s outdoing all the rest of us at sinning, that would mean he thinks he’s the greatest sinner on earth. The greatest on earth! And thus enters pride.

This fictional character thinks his sins are so great that they beyond the mercy of God. That is a distorted form of thinking that has its basis in false humility which is a disguised form of pride. He eventually despaired because he didn’t believe. It wasn’t his faith–it was his lack of faith brought on by his exaggerated sense of self (aka pride.) Jesus Christ, through the Catholic Church provides us with the Sacrament of Confession so we can experience the mercy of God. When we hear a priest tell us that our sins are forgiven, we should believe them. Of course it’s crazy not to believe that-- and it’s also false humility (which is a form of pride) and which, in this tv show, lead to his despair.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think we Christians need to understand that not all find peace in our faith. To me my faith is what keep me going, but for someone else it is the beginning of decline.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. For some people the beginning of the faith journey is easy: the feeling of peace and bliss, the lifting of the burden, sense of community in the church, etc. But when we become serious about our faith and start growing closer to God, things get challenging. There is an increased awareness of sin and of our need to root it out in order to increase in holiness. If there is a problem like scrupulosity, then the person will get into serious trouble. I have never before in my life felt anything close to scrupulosity, but suddenly I recognise subtle signs. It can happen to anyone I think, but some people are more prone to it than others, like the man in the story. This just shows how spiritual direction is crucial. But sadly, it is so hard to get.

 

[LongingSoul]

Well, he is not my friend, I saw this on TV a while ago, but it did bothering me, and yes, it is obvious he suffer from some mental problem, big ones, sad to say. Why I did post this story was because I think we Christians need to understand that not all find peace in our faith. To me my faith is what keep me going, but for someone else it is the beginning of decline. But I think the Church has a very big role in tragedies as this was/is. The Gospel is not the only thing needed in life. I do feel sorry for this chap though, with bad luck it could be about anyone of us.

Oh gosh. I hope that someone around him was eventually able to reassure him about things! Some of the greatest Saints were brought to their knees by their scruples too but this is where we are to exercise perserverence of faith and to experience being saved by grace and mercy, the gratuitous offerings of God.

 

[HoneyBea]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. For some people the beginning of the faith journey is easy: the feeling of peace and bliss, the lifting of the burden, sense of community in the church, etc. But when we become serious about our faith and start growing closer to God, things get challenging. There is an increased awareness of sin and of our need to root it out in order to increase in holiness. If there is a problem like scrupulosity, then the person will get into serious trouble. I have never before in my life felt anything close to scrupulosity, but suddenly I recognise subtle signs. It can happen to anyone I think, but some people are more prone to it than others, like the man in the story. This just shows how spiritual direction is crucial. But sadly, it is so hard to get.

I’ve also been thinking about this a lot lately, especially as someone who recently came back to my faith. I am a cradle Catholic, but I have recently come to discover my faith on my own terms. In the past year I have learned so much and while I have a huge thirst to learn and grow more I am already becoming overwhelmed at times. I was actually reflecting over all this last night while preparing dinner and felt myself become depressed. I was reflecting back to a time where I was ignorant of many sins and I started feeling a sense of resentment, as if it weren’t fair that the more I grow in faith the harder it becomes to resist sinning. Why couldn’t I just stay ignorant in sin? After all its more fun and its mindless. I never felt like a bad person before and I knew I sinned, but I always knew God loves me and now I almost feel as if I wish I hadn’t “awakened”, because of all the responsibilities that comes with “knowing”. It makes me fearful of learning more, because I fear having more burdens to do what is right and live according to Gods will. This is where prayer comes in and for me it is the only solution and has helped me keep my eyes on the Lord. I pray for trust and ultimately I do trust him, but it doesn’t mean its not scary for someone like me. I trust that Gods way is the way that will bring me most peace and joy. I really, truly believe that and I feel it too. So, when I feel overwhelmed I remember that I can bring it all to him and he will take care of me. Instant Peace. The problem is… I haven’t been able to sustain that feeling, but I know working towards that and I will get there because I have trust in God.

I’m also dealing with feeling of doubt about God’s existence. Not in a huge way, but in a teeny tiny nagging kind of way that wasn’t there before I started my journey in faith. The more I hear about Gods work the more it inspires me, but simultaneously my doubt is growing, albeit, not in equal proportion to my faith, which is growing much greater, but it is growing. Its almost as if it were easier to believe in God from a distance. Just knowing he is there all around me loving me, but I dont have to think about what that means and how it relates to me and life in this world. So much easier not knowing and not thinking! So much easier to believe when you can just believe and set it aside. My walk so far in my faith is not easy, in fact the more I walk the less easier it gets, but there is something else at work in me that propels me forward and happily and peacefully too.

 

[Lasting_faith]

There is always a possibility that the story is not true, but since it was a TV-channel from Germany, and they are very reliable, I am [almost] sure it is true. Anyway, it is a sad story about a man who did manage to fall thru all safety-nets there is on the way down.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Why couldn’t I just stay ignorant in sin? After all its more fun and its mindless. I never felt like a bad person before and I knew I sinned, but I always knew God loves me and now I almost feel as if I wish I hadn’t “awakened”, because of all the responsibilities that comes with “knowing”.

(…)

Its almost as if it were easier to believe in God from a distance. Just knowing he is there all around me loving me, but I dont have to think about what that means and how it relates to me and life in this world. So much easier not knowing and not thinking! So much easier to believe when you can just believe and set it aside.

It’s like “The Matrix” story: do you wake up to true reality even if it is seriously challenging, or stay blissfully in the dream world and never know the truth?

I can completely identify with the 2nd statement: believing is easy when you can just acknowledge the existence of God, put it on the shelf and carry on with your life, undisturbed, unchallenged, happy the way you are. We really do pay the price for the Truth: suddenly our world is turned upside down, the way we see ourselves is changed. We step aside into loneliness in the middle of the hustle and bustle of ordinary life, because we suddenly don’t take part in this life like other people do, like we used to do before conversion. The more I grow in faith the more alienated I feel from the world, even though my life doesn’t seem much different to that of other people who have no faith and have a different purpose for living.

 

[HoneyBea]

It’s like “The Matrix” story: do you wake up to true reality even if it is seriously challenging, or stay blissfully in the dream world and never know the truth?

I can completely identify with the 2nd statement: believing is easy when you can just acknowledge the existence of God, put it on the shelf and carry on with your life, undisturbed, unchallenged, happy the way you are. We really do pay the price for the Truth: suddenly our world is turned upside down, the way we see ourselves is changed. We step aside into loneliness in the middle of the hustle and bustle of ordinary life, because we suddenly don’t take part in this life like other people do, like we used to do before conversion. The more I grow in faith the more alienated I feel from the world, even though my life doesn’t seem much different to that of other people who have no faith and have a different purpose for living.

Again, I have also been dealing with feelings of loneliness in faith. Here is a snap shot of my Facebook post I wrote earlier today. Thank you for sharing, suddenly I don’t feel so alone and I feel reassurance these feelings are normal.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Again, I have also been dealing with feelings of loneliness in faith. Here is a snap shot of my Facebook post I wrote earlier today. Thank you for sharing, suddenly I don’t feel so alone and I feel reassurance these feelings are normal.

I like the post. It felt like reading my own thoughts and feelings expressed by someone else I think this feeling of loneliness and alienation is quite common, although there are Catholics who are chirpy and feel at ease in the world. I can’t relate to that at all I guess we just have to keep calm and carry on.

 

[Memaw]

I’ve also been thinking about this a lot lately, especially as someone who recently came back to my faith. I am a cradle Catholic, but I have recently come to discover my faith on my own terms. In the past year I have learned so much and while I have a huge thirst to learn and grow more I am already becoming overwhelmed at times. I was actually reflecting over all this last night while preparing dinner and felt myself become depressed. I was reflecting back to a time where I was ignorant of many sins and I started feeling a sense of resentment, as if it weren’t fair that the more I grow in faith the harder it becomes to resist sinning. Why couldn’t I just stay ignorant in sin? After all its more fun and its mindless. I never felt like a bad person before and I knew I sinned, but I always knew God loves me and now I almost feel as if I wish I hadn’t “awakened”, because of all the responsibilities that comes with “knowing”. It makes me fearful of learning more, because I fear having more burdens to do what is right and live according to Gods will. This is where prayer comes in and for me it is the only solution and has helped me keep my eyes on the Lord. I pray for trust and ultimately I do trust him, but it doesn’t mean its not scary for someone like me. I trust that Gods way is the way that will bring me most peace and joy. I really, truly believe that and I feel it too. So, when I feel overwhelmed I remember that I can bring it all to him and he will take care of me. Instant Peace. The problem is… I haven’t been able to sustain that feeling, but I know working towards that and I will get there because I have trust in God.

I’m also dealing with feeling of doubt about God’s existence. Not in a huge way, but in a teeny tiny nagging kind of way that wasn’t there before I started my journey in faith. The more I hear about Gods work the more it inspires me, but simultaneously my doubt is growing, albeit, not in equal proportion to my faith, which is growing much greater, but it is growing. Its almost as if it were easier to believe in God from a distance. Just knowing he is there all around me loving me, but I dont have to think about what that means and how it relates to me and life in this world. So much easier not knowing and not thinking! So much easier to believe when you can just believe and set it aside. My walk so far in my faith is not easy, in fact the more I walk the less easier it gets, but there is something else at work in me that propels me forward and happily and peacefully too.

I think when we come closer to our Faith we see ourselves in a different light. It is sort of a cleaning process for our soul, and that can be painful at the time and a growing process too, but the outcome is wonderful if we trust God and persevere. Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and Follow ME.” Ignorance of sin is NOT a safe way to travel thru life! Jesus also said, the road to Heaven is narrow and difficult but the road to Hell is wide and easy. Prayers for you on your Journey!, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Joe_5859]

I like the post. It felt like reading my own thoughts and feelings expressed by someone else I think this feeling of loneliness and alienation is quite common, although there are Catholics who are chirpy and feel at ease in the world. I can’t relate to that at all I guess we just have to keep calm and carry on.

I view it is striking a balance between despair and utter laxity. I feel like, if we truly understood and felt the eternal consequences of even one venial sin, we would be crushed under its weight and never be able to rise again. On the other hand, if we had even a glimmer of one fraction of God’s unending and unfathomable mercy, we would feel so empowered that we would never worry about sin for the rest of our days. We need to take care not to lose sight of either – always keeping in mind, of course, that God’s mercy is infinitely greater than our sinfulness ever could be.

 

[HoneyBea]

I think when we come closer to our Faith we see ourselves in a different light. It is sort of a cleaning process for our soul, and that can be painful at the time and a growing process too, but the outcome is wonderful if we trust God and persevere. Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and Follow ME.” Ignorance of sin is NOT a safe way to travel thru life! Jesus also said, the road to Heaven is narrow and difficult but the road to Hell is wide and easy. Prayers for you on your Journey!, God Bless, Memaw

Well put and I don’t want to be misunderstood - the challenges I mentioned are just that- challenges, but the harder it gets the louder God also gets. He lets me know I am not alone in my walk. I feel incredible blessed and great joy and excitement as I grow in faith. The deeper in faith I grow the more God reveals not only himself but myself to me. This is an incredible experience and my only one true regret is not realizing this much sooner. The love God has to give once we are willing to accept his love, is out of this world! I pray my husband can join me one day soon in this walk, perhaps I would feel less lonely. I know God will work in him and in me if I allow his will to be done.

Keep Calm and Catholic On

 

[Joe_5859]

I think when we come closer to our Faith we see ourselves in a different light. It is sort of a cleaning process for our soul, and that can be painful at the time and a growing process too, but the outcome is wonderful if we trust God and persevere. Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and Follow ME.” Ignorance of sin is NOT a safe way to travel thru life! Jesus also said, the road to Heaven is narrow and difficult but the road to Hell is wide and easy. Prayers for you on your Journey!, God Bless, Memaw

I had a friend once describe it as skimming the sludge out of a barrel of water. God brings a sin to the surface and we do our best with his grace to skim off the crud. Then, it seems that we no sooner do that than some different sludge bubbles to the surface.

If we were aware of the true extent of our sinfulness all at once, it would probably lead us to despair. But God tends to bring things to our attention one at a time (or a few at a time ). I’m thankful for that. I’m sure there are loads of habitual venial sins I commit that I have never thought twice about. Keep on keeping on in the path to holiness…

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Keep Calm and Catholic On

I like

Is your husband a non-believer or a not-Catholic Christian?

I’m praying for mine too. I think that being married to a non-believer greatly contributes to my feelings of loneliness.

 

[HoneyBea]

My husband has always been a believer but that was the extent of his faith. He converted to Catholicism last year. He is just doing his own thing. I think he feels like he did his thing “confirmation” and it’s done. Just go to church and your good to go. I know he knows better because I try to talk to him about all the things I’m learning but I can see his eyes glaze over and he has nothing to say so the conversation dies. I think I need to set a better example. We have serious marital issues that get in the way of me being able to relflect the love of Jesus. It’s hard to see Jesus in me when I’m either crying or in despair. I’m trying to work on that I know I can do better and I’ve pretty much accepted that I’m going to have to do all the work and that’s fine I’m willing to do it…I just need God to give me the strength to be able to. He does pray wth me when I ask him to but he definitely never suggests and that hurts me but I know we will get there one day. I suppose it could always be worse.

Your husband is an atheists? Agnostic? I will remember to pray for your husband when I pray for mine. I can only imagine how lonely it is not to be able to share a simple prayer with your loved one but you know that you are never really alone : )

Were you a non believer too when you married? If I’m prying I apologize.

 

[gardenswithkids]

There is always a possibility that the story is not true, but since it was a TV-channel from Germany, and they are very reliable, I am [almost] sure it is true. Anyway, it is a sad story about a man who did manage to fall thru all safety-nets there is on the way down.

A story has a beginning, middle and end, told in a limited amount of time. A storyteller must omit many, many details in order to even tell a story, (otherwise it’s less of a story and more like endless ramblings.) Because of human limitations, no one ever really even knows all the details and may not recognize the importance of some of the details they omit. Stories simply are not able to include all the details.

TV and movies have even less time in which to tell a story. A movie lasts usually only a few hours at most. It seems sometimes the main goal of tv shows is the hold the attention of the viewer so we don’t switch the channel, so they try to keep things exciting, dramatic and suspenseful. The stations that broadcast the shows may not be as interested in telling the story accurately as much as they are interested in capturing ratings.

Story tellers also tell stories from a perspective. If that perspective is a bias against the Catholic Church, (recognized or not) their story somehow will reflect that bias. They show the Catholic faith in negative light because that is how they view it.

And then…there’s the whole other side of storytelling—listening, reading, or (in the case of tv,) viewing. Did the reader/listener/viewer understand the story correctly? Did they miss some critical element of the story that would aid in their comprehension of the story teller’s message? Movies move–they move quickly and work with visuals that can be subtle. Viewers may miss some key elements of the story.

I didn’t watch the show. .I don’t know anything about it except what you shared here. The tv story you shared may not be* entirely* fictitious, but certainly some details were left out. I can tell you, practicing the Catholic faith will* not* drive a perfectly normal, healthy man off the deep end into despair and obsession.

I’ll also say, that tv character may have been Catholic, but he lacked faith. Catholics should believe our confessors when they say, “Your sins are forgiven.” We should follow the instructions at the end of Mass, “Go in peace.”

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Your husband is an atheists? Agnostic? I will remember to pray for your husband when I pray for mine. I can only imagine how lonely it is not to be able to share a simple prayer with your loved one but you know that you are never really alone : )

Were you a non believer too when you married? If I’m prying I apologize.

An atheists I guess. I was quite spiritually immature when we got married, I was all over the place.

 

[MJJean]

Why I did post this story was because I think we Christians need to understand that not all find peace in our faith. To me my faith is what keep me going, but for someone else it is the beginning of decline.

But in this case, real or no, faith was NOT the cause of decline. The mental illness was.

 

[George14]

A story has a beginning, middle and end, told in a limited amount of time. A storyteller must omit many, many details in order to even tell a story, (otherwise it’s less of a story and more like endless ramblings.) Because human limitations, no one ever really even knows all the details and may not recognize the importance of some of the details they omit. Stories simply are not able to include all the details.

TV and movies have even less time in which to tell a story. A movie lasts usually only a few hours at most. It seems sometimes the main goal of tv shows is the hold the attention of the viewer so we don’t switch the channel, so they try to keep things exciting, dramatic and suspenseful. The stations that broadcast the shows may not be as interested in telling the story accurately as much as they are interested in capturing ratings.

Story tellers also tell stories from a perspective. If that perspective is a bias against the Catholic Church, (recognized or not) their story somehow will reflect that bias. They show the Catholic faith in negative light because that is how they view it.

And then…there’s the whole other side of storytelling—listening, reading, or (in the case of tv,) viewing. Did the reader/listener/viewer understand the story correctly? Did they miss some critical element of the story that would aid in their comprehension of the story teller’s message? Movies move–they move quickly and work with visuals that can be subtle. Viewers may miss some key elements of the story.

I didn’t watch the show. .I don’t know anything about it except what you shared here. The tv story you shared may not be* entirely* fictitious, but certainly some details were left out. I can tell you, practicing the Catholic faith will* not* drive a perfectly normal, healthy man off the deep end into despair and obsession. If he was obsessive, there probably were early signs of it (that the show may not have portrayed or that you didn’t catch while watching it.)

I’ll also say, that tv character may have been Catholic, but he lacked faith. Catholics should believe our confessors when they say, “Your sins are forgiven.” We should follow the instructions and the end of every Mass, “Go in peace to love and serve the Lord.”

For someone suffering from a nearly psychotic form of scrupulosity, more is needed than the sacramental blessing, and that is because such a person is convinced that the very experiences or feelings of arousal, envy, anger , or ANYthing similar is inherently sinful. So such a person cannot remain reassured once any such feelings are perceived. He believes himself at fault.

it is my opinion that people prone to this malady are emotionally destroyed ab initio by maternal dysfunction of one subtle kind or another in which their formation and approval is based on artificial standards of something other than good behavior as such. And for evidence of it there are suicides in universities in this country by highly priviledged brilliant young men who don’t think they can meet their parents’ standards, and by workers in Far Eastern countries whose production is below standard expectations. The buildings where they work have fences and barriers installed to prevent suicide by jumping from heights…

Scrupulosity is/can be a cross of immeasurable agony for some, and it affects the most devoted, not the uncharitable!