How did you know your church is the one?

[Micosil]

For me, one of the important factors, if not the biggest factor, when trying to see which church to check out, out of the plethora of churches there were that claimed they were the real deal, was the early Church Fathers, in particular the Apostolic Fathers.

These were people that often knew the Apostles of Jesus Christ personally and had been their disciples; and reading their writings, they had beliefs and worshipped in ways similar to Catholics do now…

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Heh, , no but seriously I’m curious why (if you had thought of doing so) you would have requested that only NCs (Non-Catholics) answer?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not offended at the question being addressed to others, I’m just curious because being the one, possessing the fullness of Truth/I], etc sound right up our alley.

Precisely why I wanted to aim this question at non-catholics. They obviously feel their church teaches infallibly, possesses the fullness of Truth and can theologically and historically explain their position.

I’m trying to understand them better. Most threads like this get derailed and people start debating points and we don’t really communicate.:slapfight:

My fault, I should have written ATT: non-catholics only please.

I’m not shutting my tribe out. :grouphug:

 

[LutheranScholar]

How do you know your church teachings are infallible, possesses the fullness of Truth and is historically/theologically supported?

My church’s* teachings *are infallible because they are apostolic and based on the infallible Scriptures, they proclaim the Holy Gospels and administer the Sacraments correctly. They are historically and theologically supported by both the writings of Scripture and the Early Church Fathers. The church maintains tradition while using Holy Scripture as the standard. Here are a few links that may be worthy of study: bookofconcord.org/testimonies.php, bookofconcord.org/confessionsandbible.php , bookofconcord.org/confessionsandgospel.php,
bookofconcord.org/visitation.php,
bookofconcord.org/whatisalutheran.php

 

[AnAverageGuy]

Everything the church tells me usually matches the bible

 

[Tomdstone]

Precisely why I wanted to aim this question at non-catholics. They obviously feel their church teaches infallibly, possesses the fullness of Truth :

A church can do the best it can with the knowledge and experience that it has without possessing the full truth and without claiming infallibility. Similar to situation in physics where Newton and others did the best they could to explain gravity and other phenomena, but later on it was discovered that they did not possess the full truth, nor were they infallible. They were humans searching and working in good faith toward the truth.

 

[Sy_Noe]

My family members are not Lutheran but attend some different Protestant churches and wonderful things happen there.

Question for everyone: Isn’t the Holy Spirit able to work within the lives and in the parishes where non-Catholics attend?

Just a thought,

God bless, all!!

Rita

Hi Rita, sure I don’t see why not. Since I’ve even seen it said here on CAF that even Catholics believe others have some truth. They just don’t believe others have the fullness of truth. So the HS must be able to work within others too.

 

[Thorolfr]

Hi Rita, sure I don’t see why not. Since I’ve even seen it said here on CAF that even Catholics believe others have some truth. They just don’t believe others have the fullness of truth. So the HS must be able to work within others too.

 

[Peter_J]

Precisely why I wanted to aim this question at non-catholics. They obviously feel their church teaches infallibly, possesses the fullness of Truth and can theologically and historically explain their position.

(emphasis added)

Well, I certainly do wish that there were more Eastern Orthodox posters here. But aside from them, I don’t know many NC posters that ^^ this is true of, except the very few Oriental Orthodox posters we have.

And that’s not even to mention the fact that I don’t have a firm stance on whether or not my church (the Melkite Catholic Church (note Church, not “rite” as some call us )) teaches infallibly. I only assertion that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches infallibly.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

(emphasis added)

Well, I certainly do wish that there were more Eastern Orthodox posters here. But aside from them, I don’t know many NC posters that ^^ this is true of, except the very few Oriental Orthodox posters we have.

And that’s not even to mention the fact that I don’t have a firm stance on whether or not my church (the Melkite Catholic Church (note Church, not “rite” as some call us )) teaches infallibly. I only assertion that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches infallibly.

Okay but obviously non-catholics would disagree with you, they believe their church is true. Otherwise what’s the point in belonging to a church if you don’t truly believe they teach infallibly and possess the full Truth?

 

[benhur]

False humility is not a good test of humility.

Well, false humility is not humility . Perhaps you meant false piety might be false humility.

Am I being false when I state my belief that in heaven I will not be known as “protestant” or a Baptist, or a Lutheran? Will you be known as a Roman Catholic , or an Old Catholic or a Melkite?

The fact is that Christ promised his Church that it would last into eternity. He promised that Hell would not prevail against it, he promised his guidance to it.

Yes, we the eclesia will last forever and rule in the Kingdom.

While it’s true that, whichever Church is true, it’s physical representation in our world will pass away with the second coming,

Yes some things will pass away. Will those representational names of ecclesia pass away ?

the Church teaches Truth which will never pass away, even after the Resurrection. The one True Church will be her for the rest of eternity, all who die and enter into the Beatific Vision (Heaven) will become one with it for all of eternity.

Amen.

As for me, It’s taken a good deal of study, both theological and historical, along with some not-so-gentle prodding from God. I rejected Buddhism / Confucianism because they are philosophies, not faiths; Philosophies are great, but neither of these has any solid foundation outside of the beliefs of their progenitors. I rejected Islam because it is a logically incoherent faith that rejects the truths of the natural world (God’s gift of science). I’ve studied the realities of Protestantism in history as opposed to the realities of Catholicism in history and have arrived at the conclusion that Protestantism cannot be the proper expression of Christ’s teaching, especially when we look to the Church Fathers. I reject the Orthodoxies because I see Peter’s primacy clearly outlined in the NT and writings of the Church Fathers.

OK. Thanks for sharing. I sometimes wonder about the scripture that says “no man seeks after God” and the counterpart, “seek Me with all your heart and you will find Me”

Wisdom is now needed for we both look at the same evidences and come away deciding partly different

Blessings

 

[benhur]

The truth is people preferred to be tried in inquisitional courts because they were fairer and the “torture” was far less egregious than in civil courts. During the four hundred year run of the inquisition aprox 4,000 'heretics" were killed-none by the Church

Perhaps so, but I am reminded of an old Bonnie Raitt song , “Give It Up” , for we are still in glass houses that thankfully show the good, bad , and the ugly.

 

[Peter_J]

Okay but obviously non-catholics would disagree with you, they believe their church is true.

Isn’t the Melkite Catholic Church true? (Edit: I’m assuming of course that you realize that you’re in full communion with it, although it’s now occurring to me that that hasn’t been stated.)

 

[benhur]

Just my observation here, but it seems to me that it is central to Catholicism to believe that your particular ecclesial community cannot teach error, while Episcopalians recognize that our leaders are fallible sinners who have made mistakes and will probably make more in the future. I like the humility of the latter position.

Is that why in the end we must hear His voice ?
Blessings

 

[benhur]

The thing is, if one is teaching by the Holy Spirit, you’d think God would like for what it is propagating to be fact, not fiction.

The conditional if, that should apply to all teachers, churches etc…

And it only applies to the Pope, on matters of faith (i.e. doctrinal issues).

I thought it was more as in the magisterium?

IIRC, they are generally offered with a disclaimer

The conditional if.

The other thing to remember is the Church teaches all of these people in our Church are fallen, and do sin. They admit to that, as does the Pope.

Correct, our two warring natures, the new man and the old, the flesh vs spirit. That is why truth bearing is conditional, that the new man is speaking quite freely from the old man, by God’s grace and pleasure. Now if we can just admit that the church,even a council, is comprised of the same conditions.

 

[Sy_Noe]

A church can do the best it can with the knowledge and experience that it has without possessing the full truth and without claiming infallibility. Similar to situation in physics where Newton and others did the best they could to explain gravity and other phenomena, but later on it was discovered that they did not possess the full truth, nor were they infallible. They were humans searching and working in good faith toward the truth.

I’m not even sure the premise of the OP’s question stands. I know for faithful Catholics infallibility and believing they hold the fullness of truth is central to their faith. But when you get right down to it I think what you said reflects what it means to have faith and to walk by it without sight. And God even said to be like a little child, to be humble, and that the greatest is the least. So really all any human seeker can truly do on this earth within our finite understanding and own experiences, is in good faith to strive towards what will eventually turn out to be ultimate truth. And surely in God’s infinite wisdom, God can understand us along the way.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Isn’t the Melkite Catholic Church true? (Edit: I’m assuming of course that you realize that you’re in full communion with it, although it’s now occurring to me that that hasn’t been stated.)

I know that you are in FCWR. If you read my post the key words are non-catholic. Non-Catholics would disagree with us yeah?

 

[Peter_J]

OIC. When I read your previous post, I thought you were saying: if the Melkite Church doesn’t teach infallibly, then it isn’t true.

 

[bigblu]

The Catholic Church “works” not because
it is infallible, but because it is true. Many
centuries have tried to discredit her teachings,
but they did NOT succeed in proving her wrong,
In fact, BECAUSE these attacks have been
so intense, they fulfilled Jesus’ words when
He predicted that ALL HELL would be against
her!(Matt.16:18)

Many catholic teachings have veen proved wrong time and time again. You just chose as do most catholics to be blind to the proof.

 

[Peter_J]

Many catholic teachings have veen proved wrong time and time again. You just chose as do most catholics to be blind to the proof.

Nope. You and most Protestants choose to be blind.

I guess it’s all been said now, eh?

 

[chimo]

How do you know your church teachings are infallible, possesses the fullness of Truth and is historically/theologically supported?

I do not believe any one Church has it all. To achieve this fullness of faith you have to include the Catholic Church with the Eastern Churches. The incredible teachings from both Churchs can help us to understand what this fullness means. Here is an example about what I mean. The Catholic Church as I have discovered is well ordered with a detail catechism and teachings on Purgatory which reflect the gifts which God has entrusted her with. The fact is the Catholic Church understands more what is the Discipline and Justice of God portrays. She is above any other Church to understand the nature of God’s attribute of Justice. It is because of this the Catholic Church has a better understanding of this Justise when defining the doctrine of Purgatory. While the Catholic Church has more understanding to the attribute of God’s Justice the Eastern Churches are more understanding towards God’s other attribute which is His Mercy. While the Catholic Church emphazies the teaching of her catechism by telling you what it is the Eastern Churches tend to go about it a different way which is by listening. The method of listening is tied to the gift of being a nurturer and mentor. This is basically how the Eastern Churches operate. The Catholic Church by being more the disciplinarian will go about teaching catechism by giving it to you. There is nothing wrong in either approach except that when you are young you will need a balance of both discipline and mentoring if you are to succeed in becoming a spiritual minded person. The fact is one Church (Rome) leans more to disciplining while the other Church (Eastern) leans more to mentoring. This balance of disciplining and mentoring and of having a greater degree of God’s attribute of Justice within the Catholic Church and of having a greater degree of God’s Mercy in the Eastern Churches points us that neither Church is self-efficient as they both need each other in order to arrive to this balance. So I do not see one Church greater than the other. I see them both needing each other in order for this balance maturity to be present.