How do abortion supporters reconcile their support for abortion . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter Magster
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I heard this explanation from a woman who had an abortion and did not regret it (yet). She said that she loved her boyfriend, but they were not ready to get married nor did she want to raise a child alone or go through the pregnancy just to give the baby up for adoption. She had just landed a great job in another city and did not want to start the new job pregnant or with a baby in tow. I said, “So, you aborted the baby because it got in the way of your career?” She said yes. I asked " Did you think it was a person?" She said yes.

She didn’t see the baby’s personhood as a valid moral deterent. She had also broken up with the boyfriend because he wouldn’t move with her to the new city. She said she got rid of the boyfriend because he stood in the way of her new job. Her attitude was that if she could rid herself of the boyfriend without breaking any laws or “offending any churches” and he was a “real person”, why couldn’t she get rid of the baby, who may also be a real person, but has even less right than the father to tell her what to do with her life.

I was too stunned to speak after that, so the conversation ended. Selfish people just wear me out!
 
Swan said:
And the fact is that the woman has to carry the child so her experience and her health have to be taken into consideration. She is not just a baby incubator. Women are more than their biological capacities.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Now why can’t you extend the same consideration to the unborn? Why reduce them to just “incubatees” who are not worth more than your arbitrary (and rationalizing) assessment of “their biological capacities”?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Cara_Serrano said:
I heard this explanation from a woman who had an abortion and did not regret it (yet). She said that she loved her boyfriend, but they were not ready to get married nor did she want to raise a child alone or go through the pregnancy just to give the baby up for adoption. She had just landed a great job in another city and did not want to start the new job pregnant or with a baby in tow. I said, “So, you aborted the baby because it got in the way of your career?” She said yes. I asked " Did you think it was a person?" She said yes.

She didn’t see the baby’s personhood as a valid moral deterent. She had also broken up with the boyfriend because he wouldn’t move with her to the new city. She said she got rid of the boyfriend because he stood in the way of her new job. Her attitude was that if she could rid herself of the boyfriend without breaking any laws or “offending any churches” and he was a “real person”, why couldn’t she get rid of the baby, who may also be a real person, but has even less right than the father to tell her what to do with her life.

I was too stunned to speak after that, so the conversation ended. Selfish people just wear me out!
Click to expand...
Yes i understand you point. But trust me when we sin, rather today or tommorow, it seems our past will come back to haunt us. It may take this woman many of years to understand what she has done. Some of these women years later never are able to have kids. But also remember some of us are granted the grace from God from above. Some never accept the grace we are given. ALot of times when people see how greed takes over its too late. But trust me the house of cards will fall down some day on this women and just pray for her that when it does, God will get her through it. You and i cant understand this because we were Blessed with the Gift and accepted it. But trust me nothing we do in this world goes unseen by God. ITs his judgement that we have to worry about. He is a forgiving God, and he also understands more of this person than you and I. But feel sorry for her. She doesnt know what she lost.
 
Green_Tea said:
Hello. I am only mildly informed regarding the abortion debate, but after reading over this thread, I am surprised at what seems to be a genuine lack of imagination – the lack of the ability to conceive of the “mindset of a pro-choice person” or something like that. That is, it seems there are some of you who honestly do not understand what sort of thinking could prompt a reasonable person to be reluctant to forcibly abrogate a “woman’s right to choose.”

I am not a Catholic (though I am very interested in Catholicism – that is another story), so I am not as educated as all of you in the pro-life thinking and rhetoric. I have been in opposed to the prohibition of abortion at certain points in my life and I have have known many people who were (are) in favor of the legality of abortion. Thus, if any of you are truly curious, I would be happy to answer specific questions to the best of my ability. In return, I would be pleased to hear your reactions, since I want to learn more about the developed, mature objections to abortion that the Catholic Church possesses.
Click to expand...
I was once pro-choice, too, I’m sorry to say, and I can explain a little about it as well. We really need to listen to be heard. That will always be how every argument works.
For instance, many women who have had abortions and men who have encouraged abortions can’t face what they did, so they enter denial. They realize too late what they did was to kill a child, and it’s more than they can face they say, well, maye a baby doesn’t become a separate individual until viability. But that means they must oppose the invention of ways to save preemies earlier and earlier, or eventually viability will catch up to the age of the baby they got rid of.
Some people see pregnancy as slavery to a stranger, a child they have never met yet, and are terrified of it. They see it as unfair that the stranger can just appear and demand a lifetime of work and worry. Some see motherhood as enslavement to a man. They feel that men don’t care if they have children all over the world they never meet, and it seems unfair that a woman must carry the children. They consider abortion necessary to equal rights. They confuse parenting with punishment.
Some have seen dangerous pregnancies and terrible parents and figure what this world needs is for only the truly healthy, prepared and mature parents to have kids. Some believe that would stop crime, end social problems and give more resources to each person. Such a dream cn motivate many people to convince themselves that a child has no consciousness or soul until s/he breathes.
It’s sad, but we are up against people who mean well, and people who can’t deal with the fact that a child is a human being at every age.
 
Most pro-choice people I’ve talked to say that if the conditions are not right for the birth of a child, for example, if the child will “just be abused anyway,” they feel that abortion is a better alternative.

This is why ADOPTION needs the push that it needs.

Of course, when you suggest to these same people that adoption would be a great option for a child in such a predicament, then they have the nerve to say that the potentially abusive mother should not have to suffer such a catastrophic loss as carrying a baby for nine months only to give it to somebody else. Well, I’m sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. If the concern was truly for the child, then finding a loving family for the child should be priority #1 if the mother doesn’t think she can do the job. Besides, lets really put it into perspective: nine months vs. 18+ years? Nine months is not a long time relatively speaking for a woman who’s not ready to be a mom to carry a baby and place the child for adoption. Abortion has no place in a society where adoption is available.

Tracy
 
Tracy, thanks for reminding people of the adoption option. It’s ironic that many American women who adopt, must do so because their reproductive systems were ruined by years of chemical contraceptives or abortions. They now have to thank all the women who refused to abort their babies for those adopted children.
 
Deo_Volente said:
The issue, for me, revolves around when specifically human life begins. Not animal life or merely the processes of biology, but human life. I cannot, in all honesty, believe that human life begins with conception.
Click to expand...
It is a biological and scientific FACT that human life begins at conception. A completely separate and unique entity from the mother.
But I think there is enough grey area to allow that abortion is permissable within relatively strict limits–to save the life of the mother; in instances of rape, etc. But not as a form of birth control.
Click to expand...
Why would it be okay within strict limits and not always okay? If it is murder, why should it ever be okay?
That having been said, back-alley or illegal abortions are likely not to be particularly conducive to human life.
Click to expand...
In fact no abortion is particularly conducive to human life.
And too often what I feel the “pro-life” camp misses is that their platform seems to amount to little more than “pro-birth”. The quality of life in utero of the potential human seems to be of greater import than the quality of life of the actual human child in the world. This is not to say that fetuses who will be born in conditions of abjection, into the comfortless bureacracy of the orphange, or into abusive households should be aborted (far from it), but it says very little in favor of the reasonableness of the “pro-life” argument.
Click to expand...
In what way is it unreasonable to defend the lives of the unborn and how does that equate to not having compassion for the living who are already born? Caring from the unborn is in no way exclusive of caring for the born. The only logical conclusion to make from such an ascertation is that to prevent someone from being born into an abusive household or being subject to the 'comfortless bureaucracy" is to prevent them from being born at all.
 
Tracyms1974 said:
Most pro-choice people I’ve talked to say that if the conditions are not right for the birth of a child, for example, if the child will “just be abused anyway,” they feel that abortion is a better alternative.
Click to expand...
These types need to be addressed from the angle opposite that of the common pro-choice convincing influence that if you don’t abort your child, it is automatically doomed to a life of gloom. This concern needs to be overcome with assurance of reality. Most children adopted by other couples are not at all subject to these doom sayers dire fortune predicitions.
 
dkoinzan said:
I believe our culture has neutralized life. Even our language has become empty when it comes to life. ie: I lost a child, miscarriage, stillbirth,

We need to look for ways in our daily lives that life has been trivialized. We need to begin to celebrate life in every way.

For example this year my family has buried two children. Theresa died 31 weeks after conception. Joseph died 14 weeks after conception. I tell people I have five children. Three of them I am blessed to be raising and two of them I am blessed to have as Saints in heaven.

Now I could just tell people that I had one stillbirth and one miscarriage. I could then tell people that I one have three children. Kind of looses it’s meaning doesn’t it.

How in even little ways can we bring meaning to life. With out life there is no death, there is mearly a procedure.
Click to expand...
My husband does this, says he has 4 children (2 miscarriages.) I need to remember to do that more, as well. You and your family are in my prayers.

As far as abortion goes, I think what it ultimately comes down to is people are selfish, and they play the “well, it’s not a PERSON card.” But when you compare that to slavery and how Black Americans were treated, then you’re just a bigot. 🤷

It just makes me really sad, and I pray that our culture of death is turned around very soon.
 
Green_Tea said:
a categorical prohibition is analogous to performing brain surgery with a sledgehammer, and such a blunt, crass, and gross procedure is unlikely to be productive for anyone involved in such a delicate and tremendously important issue.
Click to expand...
Yes it would be very productive and beneficial to the unborn if they were guaranteed the protection of the law.
 
To win people over, it is often necessary to know what they think.
Imagine a conversation between a pro-life persona dna pro-choice person:
PL: Abortion is murder.
PC: You just want women to have no rights.
PL: Why do you want to kill babies?
PC: Why do you want to turn women into slaves?
This conversation isn’t going to persuade anyone.
Here’s another take:
PL: Why do you believe in abortion?
PC: To free women and reduce population. Why do you want to control women?
PL: I don’t want to control women. Did you know most women who have had abortions regret it and have serious emotional pain for years as a result?
PC: Well, that’s because society makes them feel guilty. There are over 6 billion people in a world running out of resources.
PL: Why do you think it’s acceptable to take the life of a young person to save resources?
PC: I don’t. A fetus isn’t conscious yet. Did you know the topsoil is already badly eroded?
PL: Is it OK to kill an unconscious person to save topsoil?
PC: Maybe, if that person wouldn’t have a good life anyway and wouldn’t be loved.
PL: What if agriculture is improved? What if the adoption system id improved? What if prenatal care is available to all women to make pregnancy less scary?
PC: That might help. But why should women carry the burden of sex?
PL: Would you feel any joy at knowing you gave life to a beautiful child and that the child would look like you?
PC: Sort of.
PL: And why should women carry the burden of death? Do you know what it feels like to have death inside you?
PC: I try not to remember that part.
PL: Why?
PC:(Silence)
PL: Do you really feel sure a child isn’t conscious before birth?
PC: I hope it’s not.
– Maybe some will think about it then?
 
I think sometimes people become so wordy and educated that they loose truth. Knowledge is not always directly related to knowledge of truth. Truth is simple. Everyone can understand truth. Our country has held education up as something to strive for, but education that doesn’t bring truth is worthless. The argument has to be kept full of truth and unwordy. When the definition of life gets rolled around in words, the meaning of life gets degraded.
 
Hey everybody.
Code: 
  I have a question.  I'm completely pro-life, don't get me wrong, but I was wondering about something.  Let's say you have a woman who's pregnant who actually agrees to place her baby for adoption because she's not ready to be a mom.  Here's the catch:  She's hopelessly addicted to drugs, alcohol, or painkillers, or she's a prostitute or something about her present lifestyle would potentially cause harm to the baby.  How would we as a pro-life community help such a woman and her baby?  If she needed rehab and didn't have the money to pay for it, who would?  There are very few adoptive parents who want to adopt a drug-addicted baby, and I do imagine it would be hard on them to do so.  Plus, as is the problem with drug addiction, you can throw all the money you want at the problem, but if the birthmother does not want to quit, then you've got a real problem on your hands.  I was just curious as to what y'all thought of this (common?) dilemma.
Tracy
 
Tracyms1974 said:
Hey everybody.
Code: 
  I have a question.  I'm completely pro-life, don't get me wrong, but I was wondering about something.  Let's say you have a woman who's pregnant who actually agrees to place her baby for adoption because she's not ready to be a mom.  Here's the catch:  She's hopelessly addicted to drugs, alcohol, or painkillers, or she's a prostitute or something about her present lifestyle would potentially cause harm to the baby.  How would we as a pro-life community help such a woman and her baby?  If she needed rehab and didn't have the money to pay for it, who would?  There are very few adoptive parents who want to adopt a drug-addicted baby, and I do imagine it would be hard on them to do so.  Plus, as is the problem with drug addiction, you can throw all the money you want at the problem, but if the birthmother does not want to quit, then you've got a real problem on your hands.  I was just curious as to what y'all thought of this (common?) dilemma.
Tracy
Click to expand...
There are many pro-life organization that could either help the addicted mother or direct her to were she can go for help. I know of quite a bit of adoptive parents that would adopt a child like this in fact I have two cousins who were born addicted to drugs. I am not sure where you are going with the mother who doesn’t want help, no we cannot force her to stop doing drugs but we can do everything in our power to help her and save the life of the child.

Also being addicted to drugs should not warrant a death sentence for either the mother or the child.🙂
 
Tracyms1974 said:
Hey everybody.

I have a question. I’m completely pro-life, don’t get me wrong, but I was wondering about something. Let’s say you have a woman who’s pregnant who actually agrees to place her baby for adoption because she’s not ready to be a mom. Here’s the catch: She’s hopelessly addicted to drugs, alcohol, or painkillers, or she’s a prostitute or something about her present lifestyle would potentially cause harm to the baby. How would we as a pro-life community help such a woman and her baby? If she needed rehab and didn’t have the money to pay for it, who would? There are very few adoptive parents who want to adopt a drug-addicted baby, and I do imagine it would be hard on them to do so. Plus, as is the problem with drug addiction, you can throw all the money you want at the problem, but if the birthmother does not want to quit, then you’ve got a real problem on your hands. I was just curious as to what y’all thought of this (common?) dilemma.

Tracy
Click to expand...
Although I can’t speak for every state and town, I know my state has several thriving, non-profit organizations that do nothing but help women in these situations, for free. They are composed of professionals in the medical, business and legal world, along with many volunteers who simply want to help.

Here is the one I support. I haven’t been able to volunteer this semester due to school/work, but I can’t wait to get back:

ourladysinn.org/

Besides organized groups, many individuals help, offering their own resources and homes. For example, a woman that protests weekly at the local abortion clinic has often taken homeless women into her home, offered them a place to stay, money, transportation, motivation to get a job and go to school, training in childcare, etc.
 
dkoinzan said:
I think sometimes people become so wordy and educated that they loose truth. Knowledge is not always directly related to knowledge of truth. Truth is simple. Everyone can understand truth. Our country has held education up as something to strive for, but education that doesn’t bring truth is worthless. The argument has to be kept full of truth and unwordy. When the definition of life gets rolled around in words, the meaning of life gets degraded.
Click to expand...
As some of us will find when we are too old and feeble to take care of ourselves and society decides we aren’t worth keeping alive.
 
What is sad is that this world is all about Money and Power and whatever it takes to get it. If it means its more profitable to kill the old, then so be it, Kill the unborn, so be it. And todays society has proved it. No one has time to help others anymore. We all talk the talk but how many of us walk the walk. We are all guilty of it. Why lie we are all about not killing older People and babies, but how many of us truely have time or want to be bothered. How many of us help the elderly, go to homes and hold their hands,help them out. How many dont even do for their own parents. How many of us even give respect to the elderly. We see it every day, hear of it on the news. How can we change others when we cant even change ourselves. Oh we can, but will we. Please dont get me wrong killing is wrong for any reason, But maybe its time we all pitched in and became better people and look within before we condem. Maybe help more to change this world a little better. But why lie, we all have greed of some sort. Maybe its a eye opener for all of us. To be better people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top