How do catholic women or men justify their consciences with using contraception?

[KellyPalmer]

I question was not how do people justify using contraception to KellyPalmer. I was also not how they justify it to the church. Since the OP has not responded we don’t know exactly what he was asking for; for me I read it has how do the people using contraception justify it to themselves. Of course, we can all read it the way they want; however, you are now just being difficult because she isn’t explaining it the way you want. I don’t think anything shelby said would be good enough for you.

You seem to be the one that wants to keep this up and I am hope shelby doesn’t respond to you anymore. She said she is done let it go already!

I’m not following you. Shelby didn’t explain how she justifies it to herself as a Catholic woman. That last part is a key part of the question. Have you considered that you may be the one being difficult here? I see a lot of finger wagging.

 

[einna]

AGREED! From all sides, may we ALL find grace as we are all sinners, yes I am a sinners before anything else.

 

[Southern]

False analogy - the commandment is “Do not murder” - it is not murder to kill an attacker when it is the only way to stop the attack. It is not a “lesser evil” to do so; it is an act of justice.

You missed my point completly!!! This post to me is over!

 

[Southern]

This thread has to be the nastiest and most disgraceful that I ever come across with people flinging mud at each other. I think it should be closed.

I second that Motion!!!

 

[russet1]

I don’t think this thread is nasty. I think Catholic teaching has been explained and I think some choose to not accept it and to think it is ok for others to not accept it. There is a false tollerance that permeates our society our very way of thought that we cannot clearly preach the Gospel. This is a Catholic site with Cathoic answers. No one is forced to post. No one has to participate in the thread at all if it causes them grief. But there are those of us who speak our faith and live our faith. I am amazed at the people who have pride in being a sinner. As if that is something to strive for and somehow gives one some kind of moral justification for not standing up for Holiness and God. We come from a faith where people died and still die to proclaim the good news. Not 2 months ago we heard the call of John the Baptist to REPENT and turn from our sins and to live the Gospel. But there are those who wish to silence anyone who calls others to Godliness. Close the thread? Because someone took the kid gloves off in a battle that we are losing with words? It would be a shame. Is this what we have become? That someone speaks Truth and Holiness in a manner we deem too harsh and we wish to shut it down?
Being Catholic is the new racist. You cannot say anything without tripping over your tounge to appease someone’s feelings.
Homosexual marriage and acts are immoral. (make sure you spend five minutes petting those who might be offended with qualifying statements and good feeling words)
Birth Control is immoral and wrong and a Catholic who uses it to prevent conception should NEVER consider themselves in communion with the Church.
The tired mantra of “We are all sinners” and this competition of humbleness we have to prove we are the worst of the sinners is a misapplication of true Catholic faith. I was born a sinner. I was baptised, completely free of sin. And last Saturday when I left the confessional I was also completely free of sin. A practicing Catholic’s goal is to be sin free. And we somehow believe that God asks the impossible from us. That the simple request to follow Him and His Church is too much for a mere human to do.
This “sin competition” we have smacks of protestantism. Of Luther and Calvin. It also ignores one of the most Catholic things of all. The saints. Guides for our lives. Given to us by God as an example. But somehow even still we view holiness as something unattainable. So much so that we refuse to try. We sit in our sin, our excrement and shout down anyone who tells us or themselves to get out of it.
How do we live in this day and age of instant information about anything and yet we refuse to see the Truth plain as the Eucharist on your tounge.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well said.



I guess the mods agree with you because so far, no one has even been sanctioned that I can see, and the thread continues. Of course, this forum has a wee bit more leeway than, say, the “World News” forum…

 

[jmcrae]

You missed my point completly!!! This post to me is over!

God will never ever ever create or allow any situation where someone “has to” commit a sin. He will always provide you with an option for virtue. So your scenarios will never work.

 

[Demetra2]

I don’t think this thread is nasty. I think Catholic teaching has been explained and I think some choose to not accept it and to think it is ok for others to not accept it. There is a false tollerance that permeates our society our very way of thought that we cannot clearly preach the Gospel. This is a Catholic site with Cathoic answers. No one is forced to post. No one has to participate in the thread at all if it causes them grief. But there are those of us who speak our faith and live our faith. I am amazed at the people who have pride in being a sinner. As if that is something to strive for and somehow gives one some kind of moral justification for not standing up for Holiness and God. We come from a faith where people died and still die to proclaim the good news. Not 2 months ago we heard the call of John the Baptist to REPENT and turn from our sins and to live the Gospel. But there are those who wish to silence anyone who calls others to Godliness. Close the thread? Because someone took the kid gloves off in a battle that we are losing with words? It would be a shame. Is this what we have become? That someone speaks Truth and Holiness in a manner we deem too harsh and we wish to shut it down?
Being Catholic is the new racist. You cannot say anything without tripping over your tounge to appease someone’s feelings.
Homosexual marriage and acts are immoral. (make sure you spend five minutes petting those who might be offended with qualifying statements and good feeling words)
Birth Control is immoral and wrong and a Catholic who uses it to prevent conception should NEVER consider themselves in communion with the Church.
The tired mantra of “We are all sinners” and this competition of humbleness we have to prove we are the worst of the sinners is a misapplication of true Catholic faith. I was born a sinner. I was baptised, completely free of sin. And last Saturday when I left the confessional I was also completely free of sin. A practicing Catholic’s goal is to be sin free. And we somehow believe that God asks the impossible from us. That the simple request to follow Him and His Church is too much for a mere human to do.
This “sin competition” we have smacks of protestantism. Of Luther and Calvin. It also ignores one of the most Catholic things of all. The saints. Guides for our lives. Given to us by God as an example. But somehow even still we view holiness as something unattainable. So much so that we refuse to try. We sit in our sin, our excrement and shout down anyone who tells us or themselves to get out of it.
How do we live in this day and age of instant information about anything and yet we refuse to see the Truth plain as the Eucharist on your tounge.

I have to agree. I am just tired of this thread. I have no problem of fighting the good fight in defense of the church.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

First, shame on me for my lack of charity. Pray for me, everyone. I’ll do better.

Shame on all us Catholics for fighting among ourselves.

Shame on all the hate in this thread.

We can’t even stand together on something; we certainly won’t stand against the persecution that’s coming.

 

[Marie5890]

Maybe they dont buy into some idea that there is some sort of contraception police or that God pays that close attention to their sex lives.

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe they dont buy into some idea that there is some sort of contraception police or that God pays that close attention to their sex lives.

How do they think God created them?

 

[einna]

I have to agree. I am just tired of this thread. I have no problem of fighting the good fight in defense of the church.

Wow, I am sorry that you and Russet1 took it that some of us are in a “sin competition”. I stated I was a sinner, because it is a fact and I thought this was an appropriate place to say it, I take NO pride in it. It was something we were told growing up. I am the worst sinner I know because I try not to compare myself to others in anyway, and focus on bettering myself. I have obviously shown I do not have the grace or gift of word to point any thing out to others, so I will leave that up to those you are good at it.

Some of that are older were not taught to go out and preach God’s word or that it is our “duty” to point out others sinner. We were taught to live our faith as a good example to others. Living most of my adult life in the south, preaching was somethings protestants did, not catholic. Please remember we are not all the same age, from the same area, or learned the same things.

We are to strive to be holy, but grace and holiness is a gift from God. One as of today I have not reached, but certainly nothing I take pride in.

 

[russet1]

I am the worst sinner I know because I try not to compare myself to others in anyway, and focus on bettering myself.

How many people do you know? You are saying you are the farthest from God and worst sinner you have ever known? I suppose it could be possible. If it is you better run to confession. But rather, I think you have a confusion over what makes a sinner and what can be done to rectify the situatiuon. Not only that but some seem to think that if they themselves have ever sinned that they lose moral authority over others. Au Countrare my friend. Sometimes the best people to speak against sin are those who have sinned. A killer on death row’s admonition to not murder carries more weight than an average joe on the street.
Sometimes alcholholics make the best calles to soberness we will ever hear.
You should reflect on who you are and why and how God made you. You are His Child, not the "Worst sinner you know’ that is one of the most protestant things we can say!

 

[KellyPalmer]

The only way someone can say that they are the worst sinner they know is if they are comparing themselves to others. Otherwise one wouldn’t now how they compared to others. Some of this “don’t judge” gets out of control. I don’t see anyone here walking around giving unsolicited advice to point out people’s sins. We are talking about a Catholic message board where people are coming to present their situations for discussion with the Catholic perspective.

 

[einna]

The only way someone can say that they are the worst sinner they know is if they are comparing themselves to others. Otherwise one wouldn’t now how they compared to others. Some of this “don’t judge” gets out of control. I don’t see anyone here walking around giving unsolicited advice to point out people’s sins. We are talking about a Catholic message board where people are coming to present their situations for discussion with the Catholic perspective.

I am sorry, dear, should I have said the only sinner I know or not said it at all? Also in my last post I only said I don’t point out others sins ( or how ever you want to put it) because I was not taught to do that. You can do anything you feel you need to do for your faith. I am sorry we cannot all get our wording right for every single person on this thread, and certainly we all have our own way of interpreting and critiquing others thoughts:shrug:

 

[russet1]

I am sorry, dear, should I have said the only sinner I know or not said it at all? Also in my last post I only said I don’t point out others sins ( or how ever you want to put it) because I was not taught to do that. You can do anything you feel you need to do for your faith. I am sorry we cannot all get our wording right for every single person on this thread, and certainly we all have our own way of interpreting and critiquing others thoughts:shrug:

To what lengths will you not point out others sins?
Would you condemn genocide? Infanticide? Murder? Satanism? How about an unjust war? or stealing money from the elderly. I can point out sins because I have a clear understanding of good an evil. Do you just not believe that we should help our fellow man conquer sin?
Anyway this is kind of a derailment of the thread. You have stated you cannot define people using birth control as sinning. It would seem that you have stated your stance. There does not seem to be much more to add about this subject then.

 

[einna]

How many people do you know? You are saying you are the farthest from God and worst sinner you have ever known? I suppose it could be possible. If it is you better run to confession. But rather, I think you have a confusion over what makes a sinner and what can be done to rectify the situatiuon. Not only that but some seem to think that if they themselves have ever sinned that they lose moral authority over others. Au Countrare my friend. Sometimes the best people to speak against sin are those who have sinned. A killer on death row’s admonition to not murder carries more weight than an average joe on the street.
Sometimes alcholholics make the best calles to soberness we will ever hear.
You should reflect on who you are and why and how God made you. You are His Child, not the "Worst sinner you know’ that is one of the most protestant things we can say!

No, my friend, I am saying that I guess I have my own sins to try to deal with. I do not talk about my sins with others and they do not discuss their, I discuss them with my priest, so I don’t know what others sins are and I am not required to discuss mine. Like I said, I thought this was an appropriate place, it is obviously not.

Just from the few post I have made on this thread it should be obvious I would not be a good person to speak against sin, seeing as most of what I have said has not come through, at least to some, as I intended. I don’t believe we were all intended to share or live our faith in exactly the same way. We all have our own gifts to share in different ways, don’t you think? I am sorry I don’t keep up with what protestants say.

 

[einna]

To what lengths will you not point out others sins?
Would you condemn genocide? Infanticide? Murder? Satanism? How about an unjust war? or stealing money from the elderly. I can point out sins because I have a clear understanding of good an evil. Do you just not believe that we should help our fellow man conquer sin?
Anyway this is kind of a derailment of the thread. You have stated you cannot define people using birth control as sinning. It would seem that you have stated your stance. There does not seem to be much more to add about this subject then.

Excuse me??? Where did I say I cannot define people using BC as sinning? Where? Please quote? I believe I said I did not agree with shelby’s view of the Catholic church teaching on that topic. Please do be careful with what you say other have said.

Where did I say you should not point out sin to others, AGAIN, I was not taught to do that, others can do it to help there fellow man conquer sin. I try to help my fellow man in other ways, NOT better ways just other ways. Is that not OK?

 

[russet1]

No, my friend, I am saying that I guess I have my own sins to try to deal with. I do not talk about my sins with others and they do not discuss their, I discuss them with my priest, so I don’t know what others sins are and I am not required to discuss mine. Like I said, I thought this was an appropriate place, it is obviously not.

Just from the few post I have made on this thread it should be obvious I would not be a good person to speak against sin, seeing as most of what I have said has not come through, at least to some, as I intended. I don’t believe we were all intended to share or live our faith in exactly the same way. We all have our own gifts to share in different ways, don’t you think? I am sorry I don’t keep up with what protestants say.

einna,
hypocisy is a funny animal. We all do it. We all are illogical sometimes in our application of faith. But you have made a strong case for not being in a position to judge others sin. Ok, that is probably something you need to work through with your own concisous. But I will tell you that your defensiveness and reluctance to defend God’s teaching in relationship to contraception in an attempt to apply humblenss (though it is being applied wrongly) is contradicted by earlier posts from you.

I am sorry, even though I believe in the Church teaching on this subject, you do not come across as a concerned member at all. You come across as completely and totally judgmental and not at all Christ like. You can tell yourself whatever gets you through the day, but you do not in anyway, shape or form come across as a christian defend their church. I hope you are not so unmerciful on all your post as I see you post quiet often.

Is this quote what someone wrote about an ABC using Catholic?

If that is what you have to tell yourself to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say you are a good practicing Catholic, I feel sorry for you

Nope, it was from you to another poster questioning their ability to be a Catholic and judging them.

You sound like a very unkind, highly critical person. We are all sinners, even you. You seem to need reminding of that my dear!

And yet you seem to be quite comfortable reminding others on certain issues but not others???
And my favorite!

I am not of the age where people believe it is our “duty” to judge others so readily. I am of the age we look to ourselves first as sinners and try to better our own behavior before we look at others sins. There is a grace to being able to guide and teach people on Catholic teachings, I am sorry my dear but I did see that you have that yet. You simply come across in a mean spirit out to get someone.

This quote from you illustrates exactly what I am trying to say. You state that you should not “judge” others as if the entire idea behind moral realativsm is from an “age” or somehow that older people were taught differently than currnt theological thought on sin and judging. That is false. That is just you not being taught a deep theology, not an entire “age” that is past. Sadly that age is now.
But then you go on to judge, and try to fraternally correct a fellow Catholic that you deem wrong. Right after you declare you are of the ilk that does not do that! Don’t you see?

I find it a defect in our world that we are comfortable correcting those who we deem “judgemental” and yet are not comfortable with correcting actual evil. Like life issues and Birth Control. Some of the harshest condemning words on this thread have come from you. But not about the real issue and real sin and evil. But rather just that you do not like another poster.
Perhaps you should move on.

 

[einna]

einna,
hypocisy is a funny animal. We all do it. We all are illogical sometimes in our application of faith. But you have made a strong case for not being in a position to judge
I find it a defect in our world that we are comfortable correcting those who we deem “judgemental” and yet are not comfortable with correcting actual evil. Like life issues and Birth Control. Some of the harshest condemning words on this thread have come from you. But not about the real issue and real sin and evil. But rather just that you do not like another poster.
Perhaps you should move on.

I didn’t know we were required to judge peoples sins on this thread and I already acknowledged that I judged and should not have. You seem to have an issue with my not doing things as YOU see fit as far as pointing out the evil of others. I am so glad you find yourself to be such a good Catholic speaking out against evils, some of us do not have a talent for it any more than we have a talent for singing in the church choir, and you certainly wouldn’t want me doing that either. Some of us go out and help those who have had evil done to them instead of using words to correct the evil done. I do believe it takes all kinds. Is that not OK with you.