How do Catholics answer to John 3: 16?

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=Kortyr;5249092]I am wondering what the Catholic response is when Protestants site John 3:16(“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”) in support of their “saved by faith alone” belief.
How about these for starters? Same Book, author and chapter:D

John 3: 5: "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

And this

John 3:36" He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. "

Mt.19:17 "And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

Mt. 16: 18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 ** I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven**, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

2Tim. 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God and * profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

There are many, many more which is why this last one is so signifiant!

Love and prayers,

Pat
 
First of all hi everyone and God bless you. It seems as though we’re all believers here so , I would like to respond. Though the actual words, “faith alone”, are not found in the Bible I would like to mention that the following “actual words” are also not found:
“blessed virgin”
“eucharist”
Yet they still have people who believe in them. The fact that an actual set of words are not found, in Scripture, does not change anything. The same foundational meaning is there. For your consideration, I submit the following in defense of “faith only” salvation:
1 Peter 1:9
Ephesians 2:8-10
I would also like to know how everyday Catholics respond to the authority of the Bible? Any questions please feel free to contact me either here or just shoot me an email.
Welcomed to the forum!

…as it has been stated the phrase “faith alone” is in Scripture; yet, it does not translate to salvation by faith alone; rather, it negates salvation by faith alone.

If you truly need to know… just listen to Jesus’ words:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Clearly, Jesus must simply have some hang ups on this Baptism thing since faith alone saves!

Mark 10:17-27
17As Jesus started on his way… 20"Teacher," he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” 21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad… “Who then can be saved?” 27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Jesus demands that he take part in his own salvation by sharing with others his wealth; couldn’t the faith alone save this man? …could the treasure in Heaven not be works along side with his faith?

Here’s how St. Paul feels about Salvation:

Philippians 2:12-13
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

If all that had been required was to have faith, why do you suppose that he taught that we should work out our salvation?

As far as the Authority of the Bible is concerned… I think that you mean the Authority of the Church…

Here’s what Jesus stated:

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (St. Matthew 18:15-17)

You see, Jesus does not Command His disciples to search the Scriptures (which at that particular time would have meant the Old Testament) to resolve an internal matter of the Church; rather, Jesus Commanded them to seek other Believers and if the matter was not resolved to bring it to the Church and the Church’s Authority would determine what should be done.

Conversely we find in 1 Timothy 3:15, that it is the Church that is the pillar and foundation of Truth–equally important is every single passage where Authority is mentioned by the Apostles… not once is there a passage that speaks of the Authority of Scriptures but rather the Authority of the Apostles.

Interestingly enough, it is St. Peter who demonstrates the Authority of the Church when he states that their writings are to be held as Sacred Writings:

14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Interestingly the above passage also offers a response to the “once saved:” be on guard so that you do not fall!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I agree, John 3:36 is a great passage to give someone who quotes John 3:16. As a matter of fact, everyone should spread the word that if you go to a major sporting event you should take a sign with John 3:36 written on it!
Excellent! John explicitly connects obedience to belief. If I say to Jesus, “I believe in you” and don’t **do **what he tells me to do, I am not really believing in him! Jesus himself explained this connection between belief and obedience -

“Why do you call me `Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built.** But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great**.” (Luke 6:46-49)
 
Excellent! John explicitly connects obedience to belief. If I say to Jesus, “I believe in you” and don’t **do **what he tells me to do, I am not really believing in him! Jesus himself explained this connection between belief and obedience -

“Why do you call me `Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built.** But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great**.” (Luke 6:46-49)
👍 This is a great addition to this conversation. It helps bring home the fact that the things we believe from the Bible cannot be “proof-texted” – i.e. building a whole doctrine (or system of doctrine) from one or two verses that we find that seem to confirm a pre-conceived notions. That’s what happens when certain Protestants take a verse like John 3:16 and run with it. That’s why we must take the whole Scripture into consideration. No proof-texting, no verse-slinging, but everything in Scripture as it relates to other Scripture. And as Catholics, the content of Scripture is part of an “analogy of Faith” that Pope Benedict likes to talk about – it is of a piece with Sacred Tradition and confirmed by the Magisterium (teaching authority) of the Church. Together this makes the Word of God. That is why Catholics are the only real “Full Gospel Church”! 😃
 
Itsmyfault,
There are two ways you can answer them:
  1. Contradict them with theological, scriptural arguments to prove them that they are wrong.
  2. Agree with them since they are quoting from the bible, letting them know that we are not enemies but all members of the body of Christ, and that our differrences in doctrines should not hinder us in sharing the love of God to others and to each other
It is not possible to agree with them, although I am thinking that you need not argue with them, which might be the better way to address this situation. I’m not sure that the subscribers to a “faith-alone” theology actually live their life with that truncated concept. Very few Protestant Christians follow the original reformers theology because of the lack of a religious authority in their world.

As Catholics we have a duty to present the Catholic Church as the normal way to salvation and that it contains the fullness of truth, it is the true way to love non-Catholics.
 
First of all hi everyone and God bless you. It seems as though we’re all believers here so , I would like to respond. Though the actual words, “faith alone”, are not found in the Bible I would like to mention that the following “actual words” are also not found:
“blessed virgin”
“eucharist”
Yet they still have people who believe in them. The fact that an actual set of words are not found, in Scripture, does not change anything. The same foundational meaning is there. For your consideration, I submit the following in defense of “faith only” salvation:
1 Peter 1:9
Ephesians 2:8-10
**I would also like to know how everyday Catholics respond to the authority of the Bible? **Any questions please feel free to contact me either here or just shoot me an email.
Dear freind, Welcome to the Forum!👍

Eph. verses 8 and 9 say one thing, while verse 10 Contrdicts it specifically. as does James Chapter for example.

Catholics first of all accept the entire word of God. Please see 2 Tim. 3:16, and Rev 22: 18-19 as to why we do.

Secondly we actaully follow what the bible says, the Sacraments ecpecially Eucharist which really is Christ [Jn.6; especially 40-69, Mt. 26:026-28, Mk. 14: 22-24, Lk. 22: 19-21, and 1 Cor. 11: 23-26., and the sacrament od Confession Mt.18:18, Mt: 16:18-19, 1 Jn. Chapter 5, Jn. 20: 23-24] as examples of my point.

What part(s) of God’s Entire word is it that you’re understanding of our Catholic beliefs, are in conflict with our Catholic beleive that the entire word of God, IS GOD’s WORD, God’s Teaching? We can discuss it.

Love and prayer’s

Pat
 
Hi everyone and God Bless you. First let me say what a pleasure it to “meet” Catholics who can actually quote scripture in defense of their faith. It is not something I am used to. Most Catholics I speak to attribute everything they know to tradition.

However, in response to the quote from Mark 10:17-27 I was taught that the reason Jesus had that man sell his possessions, and give it away, was because this young man “loved his money.” That is evidenced by his response and the fact that he went away, and did not follow Christ. Mark 10:24 states “…how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!” This young man placed his money before his desire to follow Christ.

To my knowledge there are no contradictions, of any sort, in the Bible. The whole, of the Bible, is a perfect harmony. We are called to good works to show the “new nature” created by salvation. They are ordained not to accomplish salvation, but to demonstrate it. Also please see 1 Peter 2:12 as another reason for good works.😃

Please help! I don’t, as a non-Catholic, understand the belief that the Catholic church is the sole authority in Scriptural interpretation and application.:confused:
 
Hi everyone and God Bless you. First let me say what a pleasure it to “meet” Catholics who can actually quote scripture in defense of their faith. It is not something I am used to. Most Catholics I speak to attribute everything they know to tradition.

Please help! I don’t, as a non-Catholic, understand the belief that the Catholic church is the sole authority in Scriptural interpretation and application.:confused:
What’s up Alex? First off the words “faith alone” are found in the Bible and the passage is James 2:24. Secondly, the Church is basically our teacher and therefore our interpreter of the Word. 2 Peter 1:20 is proof that certain men are given the authority by God to interpret scripture. This doesn’t mean you can’t read the Bible alone by yourself it does mean when you interpret scripture you should do so in accordance with the teaching magesterium of the Church.
You should look into Tim Staples journey to the Church, he was a Pentecostal youth minister and I’m sure you find him alot of help. By the way , my uncle is a Pentecostal preacher and my grandmother was Pentecostal, God rest her soul, so you’re in good company. The thing is though we didn’t fellowship with them, and it’s because they interpreted the Bible differently, that is why all Christians should be united under the same interpretation. God Bless Alex!
 
Coming from a Baptist background, I don’t think that passages like John 3:36 are the ideal way to back them up. I agree with the belief that both faith and works are necessary for salvation, but I don’t feel like Protestants will be reached by this method of persuasion. The problem with this particular passage is that the King James and NIV versions of the Bible used by most Protestants read: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” and "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.’’ respectively. Neither of these mention the obedience aspect. This would, to my mind, preclude Protestants who read Scripture from following the argument that has been spelled out here.

The first, and most simply stated, passage which comes to my mind is James 2:17: “So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” Likewise, James 2:24 which states, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2 is replete with references to faith & works as necessary for salvation. In all versions that I know of, the text reads the same. Using the Protestant interpretations of scripture seems to me to be the only way to reach out and show them the unbiblical nature of the “faith alone” doctrine.

I am not a Catholic, but am exploring the Faith. Please feel free to send me an email or private message with any advice or comments you might have to offer. Thanks.
 
Could someone explain to me and maybe give me a few verses on how works are necessary for salvation?
 
=Alex_C;5269621]Hi everyone and God Bless you. First let me say what a pleasure it to “meet” Catholics who can actually quote scripture in defense of their faith. It is not something I am used to. Most Catholics I speak to attribute everything they know to tradition.
However, in response to the quote from Mark 10:17-27 I was taught that the reason Jesus had that man sell his possessions, and give it away, was because this young man “loved his money.” That is evidenced by his response and the fact that he went away, and did not follow Christ. Mark 10:24 states “…how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!” This young man placed his money before his desire to follow Christ.
To my knowledge there are no contradictions, of any sort, in the Bible. The whole, of the Bible, is a perfect harmony. We are called to good works to show the “new nature” created by salvation. They are ordained not to accomplish salvation, but to demonstrate it. Also please see 1 Peter 2:12 as another reason for good works.😃
Please help! I don’t, as a non-Catholic, understand the belief that the Catholic church is the sole authority in Scriptural interpretation and application.:confused:
You’re understanding of Mk. 10, is the same as mine. (Yep, i’m Catholic.) The issue was not simply money (look at Jod and Kings david and Solomon) but "money controlling the man, not simply the man controlling his money.👍

I too like the 2 Peter 2 verse, but my favorye because of its detaile apecificity is James Chapter 2.

Love and prayer’s
 
Coming from a Baptist background, I don’t think that passages like John 3:36 are the ideal way to back them up. I agree with the belief that both faith and works are necessary for salvation, but I don’t feel like Protestants will be reached by this method of persuasion. The problem with this particular passage is that the King James and NIV versions of the Bible used by most Protestants read: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” and "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.’’ respectively. Neither of these mention the obedience aspect. This would, to my mind, preclude Protestants who read Scripture from following the argument that has been spelled out here.

Using the Protestant interpretations of scripture seems to me to be the only way to reach out and show them the unbiblical nature of the “faith alone” doctrine.

I am not a Catholic, but am exploring the Faith. QUOTE]

I didn’t even think to look at the protestant bibles about John 3:36. I totally agree though about the importance of the wording in protestant bibles and that there will be many protestants who will need to be met this way. It seems that cynicism too often comes into play when there are Christians of different backgrounds, which makes it understandable that certain people will want to use their translation only.

My brother and sister-in-law are both Baptists and they always write John 3:16 on their cards to my other catholic family members, but they don’t write it on cards they send to me…i think it might have to do with the fact that i gave them David Currie’s book Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic. Anyways, may God be with you on your journey home brother!..or sister, sorry.
 
Could someone explain to me and maybe give me a few verses on how works are necessary for salvation?
It is important to distinguish between “works of the law” which are done without faith (in a system that makes God our debtor) and “good works” done in God’s grace (with faith in Christ). Works of the law require payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us. Here is an example of the difference.

**(yet) who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. (Gal 2:16)

Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:23-24)**

Another good example is:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. (Eph 2:8-10)

Verse 8-9 describe works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Verse 10 refers to good works done in God’s grace with faith.

Hope that helps. 🙂
 
=mgull;5272249]
Coming from a Baptist background, I don’t think that passages like John 3:36 are the ideal way to back them up. I agree with the belief that both faith and works are necessary for salvation, but I don’t feel like Protestants will be reached by this method of persuasion. The problem with this particular passage is that the King James and NIV versions of the Bible used by most Protestants read: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” and "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.’’ respectively. Neither of these mention the obedience aspect. This would, to my mind, preclude Protestants who read Scripture from following the argument that has been spelled out here.
Using the Protestant interpretations of scripture seems to me to be the only way to reach out and show them the unbiblical nature of the “faith alone” doctrine.
 
To the Scripture passage itself, we say Amen.

(But not to the OSAS conclusion that is wrenched out of it. It’s just not there.)

John 3:16 is the basis of one of my favorite choral hymns I grew up singing at St Teresa of the Child Jesus Catholic Church in Windsor Heights, Des Moines, Iowa.

The video here isn’t great but it’s a good track. This is fun to sing and sets your heart a-soaring. Still brings tears to my eyes.

youtube.com/watch?v=5r3NToblpj8
 
The John 3:16 quote is a little more complicated than what many take from it. It says Jesus came into the world to save the believers. That means only believers will be saved. It does not say, or mean, that *all *believers will be saved. That said, the definition of a believer IMO can mean anyone sincerely seeking truth and goodness, which will inevitably lead to an acceptance of Jesus if they are formally exposed to him.
 
If you “believe” in Jesus, you’d better believe a whole lot of things that Jesus taught, and not only believe in John 3:16.
I agree.
To understand this passage, one needs to define the word “believe”
For me, to believe in Jesus is to love Him, to obey his commandments, and to believe all His teachings which is authentically transmitted to us by the Church that he founded.
You cannot say “I believe in Jesus but I don’t believe in the Church that He founded”. What kind of belief is that?
 
Well, how about Romans 10:9?

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (NIV)

Does Romans 10:9 teach “faith alone”?
 
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