How do Catholics answer to John 3: 16?

[davidv]

Well, how about Romans 10:9?

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (NIV)

Does Romans 10:9 teach “faith alone”?

No.

 

[thechristian]

I think what the protestant chuch is trying to say when they talk about faith only for salvation, what they mean is not eartly or fleshly faith that this world produce “you’ll
loose everytime if you have that kind of faith” NO…there faith is spirtural faith which
produces good works and spirtural fruit and other things of God.

God loves you…God bless

 

[aball1035]

Well, how about Romans 10:9?

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (NIV)

Does Romans 10:9 teach “faith alone”?

If it said “all you have to do” or something then yes. However, there are many other verses in the Bible that say if you so something, you will be saved.

 

[thechristian]

The bible over and over saids salvation is a free gift from God…its free…just accept it…but we must accept it thru faith in christ jesus…then everything else kicks in as sign of that faith…and that includes obedience to all the things he commands us to do. If you say you are a christian and refused to get water baptised…I would question your faith.

God loves you…God bless

 

[Garland]

Hi, another 3:16 comes to mind and boy is it a dozzie. Please read 2nd Peter 3 :16 and I think it will clear up a lot of protestant misinformation. I think of Elvis song I Did It My Way, when I think of our seperated bros. God in his infinite mercy and love gave us a SON to save us. That SON gave us a church to do this work until he comes. That CHURCH, gave us the NEW TEATAMENT and a magisteriam to interpet that scripture for us . When we do it OUR WAY it leads to 2nd peter 3:16. I speak as a former protestant who wandered the wasteland of protestantism for 27 years. Blown like a leaf in the wind, I finally landed in a Catholic Mass while in college and for the first time I saw people, on thier knees worshiping GOD, not just reading the Bible and singing. That was 40 years ago and the best thing that ever happened to me. I know that even Mr. Luther lameneted, that he had made a mess of the church by having everyone doing there own interpeting. Anyway, stay in Holy Mother Church, for in her embrace you will find the strength and resolve to be faithful until the end, thus gaining that wonderful prize, SALVATION… His will be done. Garland. Actually read all of second Petet for a great lesson.]

 

[una_fides]

I am wondering what the Catholic response is when Protestants site John 3:16(“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”) in support of their “saved by faith alone” belief.

An argument from the original languages:
Here is the Douay Rheims version, which is a literal translation of the Latin Vulgate:
“For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.”
In the Latin, the subjunctive is used, which is translated into English as “may” or “might” not perish (pereat) and “may” or “might” have everlasting life (habeat). The future “will not…” but “will have…” is most certainly not used. I do not know Greek, but I do have a copy of the Greek interlinear New Testament, which also has the same word construction as the subjunctive in Latin:
Joh 3:16 ουτωςG3779 γαρG1063 FOR SO ηγαπησενG25 [G5656] οG3588 LOVED θεοςG2316 GOD τονG3588 THE κοσμονG2889 WORLD ωστεG5620 τονG3588 THAT υιονG5207 αυτουG846 HIS SON τονG3588 THE μονογενηG3439 ONLY BEGOTTEN εδωκενG1325 [G5656] HE GAVE, ιναG2443 THAT παςG3956 EVERYONE οG3588 WHO πιστευωνG4100 [G5723] BELIEVES ειςG1519 ON αυτονG846 μηG3361 HIM αποληταιG622 [G5643] MAY NOT PERISH, αλλG235 BUT εχηG2192 [G5725] MAY HAVE ζωηνG2222 LIFE αιωνιονG166 ETERNAL.

There is not a promise being given that anyone who believes automatically just because he has faith alone will be saved. The text is saying that if someone believes they might not perish and might have everlasting life, meaning that through their faith they can be saved if they also persevere and work in that faith through charity. They must persevere to the end to be saved, as Christ instructs us elsewhere in Scripture. Their faith must be with works as James 2 clearly states. And the faith must be working with charity as St. Paul writes. They must also keep the commandments, as Christ and St. Paul also clearly state. (All verses available upon request.)

Sola fide is not biblical, but of course neither is sola Scriptura.

Hope this helps.

 

[erikd]

Pope John Paul II 7 December 1990 Validity of Church’s Missionary Mandate.

“15. The kingdom aims at transforming human relationships; it grows gradually as people slowly learn to love, forgive and serve one another. Jesus sums up the whole Law, focusing it on the commandment of love (cf. Mt 22:34-40; Lk 10:25-28). Before leaving his disciples, he gives them a ‘new commandment’: ‘Love one another; even as I have loved you’ (Jn 13:34; cf. 15:12). Jesus’ love for the world finds its highest expression in the gift of his life for humankind (cf. Jn 15:13), which manifests the love which the Father has for the world (cf. Jn 3:16). The kingdom’s nature, therefore, is one of communion among all human beings–with one another and with God.”

Pope John Paul II here demonstrates the true meaning of this passage: To show us an example of how much God loves us, in order that we may do the same for others. Giving up one’s life for one’s neighbor is hardly faith alone.

God Bless

 

[soflochristmas]

I am wondering what the Catholic response is when Protestants site John 3:16(“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”) in support of their “saved by faith alone” belief.

I don’t get it. What’s there to answer. John 3:16 says whoever believes in Him SHOULD not perish. Notice it doesn’t say what many Protestants assume it says…SHALL not or WILL not perish.

 

[PEPCIS]

Yes, Catholics believe that “whoever believes in Him should not perish.” However, faithin Christ is necessary, but not sufficient. Nowhere in the Bible are the words “faith alone”.

So Protestants make the mistake of looking at John 3:16 and claiming that faith is the only thing needed to get to Heaven, when in fact it doesn’t say that at all. It simply says that it’s necessary.

Notice how Baptism too is necessary for salvation (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, and others)

I think that there is error on both sides of the debate (protestants and catholics). But mostly, I see error on the catholic side.

To begin with, it is not enough to state that “Nowhere in the Bible are the words “faith alone.”” That well may be true, but it doesn’t make the belief that faith alone is unnecessary a true belief.

After all, it was Luther who came to this realization in the reading of Paul’s epistle to the Romans that resulted in his Protestant epiphany that “the just shall live by faith” means that nothing else is required for heaven except faith. The “live” in this context is spiritual life, not to be confused with earthly rewards or benefits, though there are oftentimes worldly benefits achieved through godly living.

Secondly, Catholics have grave difficulties in understanding salvation, when their own papal declarations have pronounced that Musliims worship the same God as Christians do.

There are many things necessary for salvation, but none of them are derived from the works/efforts/minds of humans - though they do find their expression in human acts. That’s because faith alone can supply us with the benefits of salvation, and this is accomplished SOLELY by God’s grace.

 

[PEPCIS]

Actually, “faith alone” is in the Bible…

[SIGN]James 2:24 - You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.[/SIGN]

Which means that a person is justified by faith alone. The problem with many people is that they choose to take faith and works as separate ways of assuring that you are saved, as if these are not connected. That’s because we all (Like James) understand that there are religious people who do many great and wonderful works, but are not really saved, because they do it for ostentatious show and recognition.

But James was treating the two words as grammatically separate events, and correcting people for this error by stating that TRUE faith is ALWAYS accompanied by works. That’s why John the Baptist told the Pharisees to “bring therefore fruit meet for repentance” (Matt.3:8), which is just another way of saying “If you’re truly saved, then why is it that you don’t have evidence of that salvation in good works?”

James made it abundantly clear that anyone who tried to separate TRUE faith from works was making the mistake of attributing a DEAD faith as capable of saving. But TRUE faith is incomplete without accompanying works.

So, then, works DOES NOT SAVE, but is merely an indication that TRUE faith is within the one who works.

It’s like saying that you have love for your wife, but you don’t ever prove that love to her. The proof of love is in the actions (works) of the lover, just as the proof of faith is in the actions (works) of the faith-holder. Works is not a means of getting to heaven, it is just EVIDENCE that you are on your way there.

 

[una_fides]

I think that there is error on both sides of the debate (protestants and catholics). But mostly, I see error on the catholic side.

To begin with, it is not enough to state that “Nowhere in the Bible are the words “faith alone.”” That well may be true, but it doesn’t make the belief that faith alone is unnecessary a true belief.

Actually, the words faith alone are in the Bible. Just once. Here’s what God wants us to know about how faith alone relates to salvation: “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only” (James 2:25).

After all, it was Luther who came to this realization in the reading of Paul’s epistle to the Romans that resulted in his Protestant epiphany that “the just shall live by faith” means that nothing else is required for heaven except faith. The “live” in this context is spiritual life, not to be confused with earthly rewards or benefits, though there are oftentimes worldly benefits achieved through godly living.

I believe Luther came to this “revelation” when sitting on the “throne” (if you know what I mean). What doesn’t make sense is how the Church could have been wrong on this issue for 1500 years, an issue so fundamental and at the basis of salvation as how one is saved. Then after all that time a guy is sitting on a toilet and has a “revelation” that the Church was wrong and that he has discovered the hidden meanings in the Bible, which is a book that was itself compiled and canonized by the same Church fathers that taught that salvation is not a guarantee for those who have true faith.

Secondly, Catholics have grave difficulties in understanding salvation, when their own papal declarations have pronounced that Musliims worship the same God as Christians do.

You misunderstand the teaching authority of the Church and what John Paul II meant when he said that. First, the pope was not teaching infallibly on this issue by any means. Unless he were to say explicitly that all the faithful are bound to believe this teaching then we are not bound by faith in this teaching. The ordinary Magisterium is fallible. Furthermore, Catholics are not bound to believe anything a pope may teach as a private theologian, as such does not fall under the teaching authority of the Church but is simply his personal opinion.
Second, you must understand what is meant by “worshiping the same God.” Muslims profess to worship the same God in a sense in that they worship God according to the revelation given in the OT. Do the Jews worship the same God? Before Christ there was no clear revelation pertaining to the Trinity and the Jews in the OT certainly worshiped the true God, the God of Abraham. This God of Abraham is who Muslims profess to worship, though they do so in ways that are not pleasing to God and their concept of God is greatly distorted. Muslims do not worship the same God *truly *though they profess to worship the same God in the sense of the God of Abraham and in that they share certain professions pertaining to the nature of God as Catholics such as that he is one God, he is a merciful God, and that he will judge mankind. They do not worship God in truth, but they worship him in certain aspects of their profession. Unfortunately, some statements are vague and must be read and understood in the context of the Church’s continual teachings. Here’s a link to an interesting blog on the subject of Catholics and Muslims worshiping the same God: fullnessoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/01/do-muslims-worship-same-god-as.html

 

[una_fides]

The bible over and over saids salvation is a free gift from God…its free…just accept it…but we must accept it thru faith in christ jesus…then everything else kicks in as sign of that faith…and that includes obedience to all the things he commands us to do. If you say you are a christian and refused to get water baptised…I would question your faith.

God loves you…God bless

“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:18-21).

If you are not yet baptized, then you have not yet been justified by your faith. Baptism is the sacrament that places you into the Body of Christ, washes away all your sins, and makes you born again: of water and the Spirit as Christ explains as recorded in the gospel of John.
Please read this: catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp

The Church has always taught the same thing concerning baptism. The problem is trying to interpret Scripture according to a tradition that emerged over 1500 years after the Church was established. If you read Scripture in light of the Tradition of the apostles, which the early Church fathers also held, as they were the ones who compiled Scripture, then you will find the true and most complete understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[una_fides]

Well, how about Romans 10:9?

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (NIV)

Does Romans 10:9 teach “faith alone”?

Rom 10:9 Thou shalt be saved. To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord, (ver. 13.) is not barely the professing of a belief in the person of Christ: but moreover implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which the calling of him Lord will save no man. (St. Matthew vii. 21.) (Challoner) — This passage must be understood like many others of this apostle, of a faith accompanied by a good-will ready to perform what faith says must be practised; as it is required in this very place, that what we believe in the heart, we should confess with our mouth. (Estius) (from Haydock’s Commentary)

 

[erikd]

5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ
Ephesians 6: 5

Obedience is more than just believing.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
Philippians 2:12

St. Paul said this to “believers” who already had “faith.”

19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd.
20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 8: 19-21

Notice Jesus didn’t say "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and “have faith in it.” Jesus says something even stronger in Matthew’s Gospel:

23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Matthew 7: 23-26

Notice, Jesus does not say “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine and has faith in them…” But if you’re still not convinced, Jesus goes on further in the Gospel of Luke:

46 "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do the things which I say?
47 "Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:
48 "He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
49 “But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6: 46-49

Notice in verse 46 Jesus didn’t say “But why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not fave faith…” Jesus goes on to gives us specific examples of how we should live our lives. He also specified, that by living our lives in way that Christ taught us, we become His neighbors.

29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 "Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 "Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side.
33 "But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion.
34 "So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 "On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’
36 “So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
37 And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10: 29-37

14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
John 15: 14

And if that was not enough, it is stressed again just a few verses later:

17 "These things I command you, that you love one another.
John 15: 17

However, if one feels that this is all a misinterpretation of the teaching of Christ, and the teaching of St. Paul, perhaps we need clarification from St. Paul:

17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
18 "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Galatians 2:17-18

Christ died for our sins, and through Baptism we died with Him (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12). If He is to live in us and we in Him (John 14:20, 15:4, 17:21), it is an invitation to a life of holiness:

48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:48

I will also submit to you that sound doctrine, like salvation through faith and works, as presented above, must be defended as a teaching of Christ. In fact, St. Paul warned Timothy, his Bishop, of this very issue:

1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
2 Timothy 4:1-5

God Bless

 

[mikeledes]

Well, how about Romans 10:9?

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (NIV)

Does Romans 10:9 teach “faith alone”?

In fact, the verse contradicts faith alone. Why? Because it does not say you must only believe in your heart and you will be saved. It says you must believe in your heart and *confess with your mouth *and you will be saved. Confessing is an act rooted in faith - just as all good works pleasing to God are rooted in faith - but it is not the same thing as faith. That’s why Paul makes the distinction between faith (heart) and confession (mouth).

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

The bible over and over saids salvation is a free gift from God…its free…just accept it…but we must accept it thru faith in christ jesus…then everything else kicks in as sign of that faith…and that includes obedience to all the things he commands us to do. If you say you are a christian and refused to get water baptised…I would question your faith.

God loves you…God bless

According to the Bible, one can have saving faith that does not bear fruit

2 Peter 1:5-9

**5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. **

Peter does not say that he who lacks these things (virtue, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, love), never had true faith. He says he who lacks these things “has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.” This means that the person had true faith.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[drbart]

while belief and the following of God and Jesus is critical, it is not enough just as Jesus said

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. (Mt. 5:17)

 

[mgull]

I think what the protestant chuch is trying to say when they talk about faith only for salvation, what they mean is not eartly or fleshly faith that this world produce “you’ll
loose everytime if you have that kind of faith” NO…there faith is spirtural faith which
produces good works and spirtural fruit and other things of God.

God loves you…God bless

Faith doesn’t produce good works! God will give you Grace through faith.
Then, and this is where Catholics and SOME non-catholics disagree, it’s what you do with that Grace which God has freely given you. God bless!

 

[PEPCIS]

"PEPCIS:

. . . it is not enough to state that “Nowhere in the Bible are the words “faith alone.”” That well may be true, but it doesn’t make the belief that faith alone is unnecessary a true belief.

Actually, the words faith alone are in the Bible. Just once.

I know. I didn’t say that they weren’t in the Bible. I simply said that just because they are in the Bible doesn’t mean that it means that “faith alone” means that you can work your way to heaven.
una fides:

Here’s what God wants us to know about how faith alone relates to salvation: “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only” (James 2:25).

You didn’t get that from James 2:25, and you obviously didn’t read my post.

After all, it was Luther who came to this realization in the reading of Paul’s epistle to the Romans that resulted in his Protestant epiphany that “the just shall live by faith” means that nothing else is required for heaven except faith. The “live” in this context is spiritual life, not to be confused with earthly rewards or benefits, though there are oftentimes worldly benefits achieved through godly living.

una fides:

What doesn’t make sense [to una fides] is how the Church could have been wrong on this issue for 1500 years, an issue so fundamental and at the basis of salvation as how one is saved.

The Universal Church of Jesus wasn’t confused on the issue. The Catholic church was confused, and that was because they stuck their head in a toilet and preached indulgences and other garbage in order to fill their coffers.

It probably doesn’t make sense to most catholics because catholics refuse to acknowledge that the flow of information in the first 1500 years was controlled by the Catholics, and they didn’t want a regular guy to own a Bible. What do you expect? (facetiousnous)

Secondly, Catholics have grave difficulties in understanding salvation, when their own papal declarations have pronounced that Musliims worship the same God as Christians do.

una fides:

You misunderstand the teaching authority of the Church and what John Paul II meant when he said that.

The only one deficient in understanding is you. I will quote from the Lumen Gentium [Latin for “Light of Nations”], which is the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church and one of the principal documents of the Second Vatican Council. This Dogmatic Constitution was made public and promoted as official Church doctrine by Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964, following approval by the assembled bishops by a vote of 2,151 to 5.

[SIGN]“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”[/SIGN]
una fides:

First, the pope was not teaching infallibly on this issue by any means.

You need to study Catholic teachings more thoroughly, as he clearly was.
una fides:

Second, you must understand what is meant by “worshiping the same God.” Muslims profess to worship the same God in a sense in that they worship God according to the revelation given in the OT. Do the Jews worship the same God?

Here, let me help you out there, C H R I S Tian. CHRISTians serve the God, JESUS CHRIST. Do Muslims serve Jesus Christ? Do Jews serve Jesus Christ? No. They do not serve the same God that we serve. Please don’t tell me that you serve the same god that they serve.

 

[PEPCIS]

In fact, the verse [Romans 10:9, 10] contradicts faith alone. Why? Because it does not say you must only believe in your heart and you will be saved. It says you must believe in your heart and *confess with your mouth *and you will be saved. Confessing is an act rooted in faith - just as all good works pleasing to God are rooted in faith - but it is not the same thing as faith. That’s why Paul makes the distinction between faith (heart) and confession (mouth).

You make the same mistake as most Christians, equating works as a means of salvation, instead of properly understanding works to be a product of faith. This is CLEARLY taught in such places as Matt. 7:21, because it is obvious that there are “works of righteousness” - works which are produced by honest, true faith - and “works of evil” which are works produced from the heart of man.

In order to know which works are worthy, you must know what produces them. Since our hearts are desperately wicked, and no one knows them better than Jesus, then it stands to reason that Jesus will judge our hearts, NOT OUR WORKS, because He declares “I never knew you, depart from me you workers of iniquity”!!

The works that these people had performed were good works and deeds (at least they are outwardly appearing to be good works and deeds). But when Jesus sees them on the last day, He will judge with righteous judgment and see past the works and into the heart of man.