How do Catholics define "poor"

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The people who are doing the worst financially in society and have the least possessions. At least in terms of material poor and “preferential option for the poor”. What is poor varies depending upon if you mean here (USA) or worldwide.
 
Ringol. I know that many people have a specific calling to assist the poor. Your calling is a blessing to the world. I have volunteered full time, 5 years of my life as a foster parent. Caring for them day & night, shuttling them to 7-8 appointments a week. My children thrived & showed huge gains in mental, emotional, and physical growth. I am not the uncaring person that you would characterize me to be. We added a room onto our house & purchased a mini van to accomodate our foster children.

Most agencies, churches, myself, and organization provide more than the basic necessities. However the questions was what is required.

I also do have concernes with us turning people into takers. I have heard biological moms say. I don’t have to visit with my kids. I can ignore them for 3 years before they will terminate my rights. She proceeded to disappear for 3 years!!! $90,000. per child (three of them ) times 3 years = $810,000. It cost social services. It cost me my heart. Just when they were ready to allow us to adopt these children whom we loved and raised, She showed up & demanded her parental rights. The biological Grandmother also filed for custody, after refusing to even visit since birth. ** I heard them both yelling at each other in the court house because THEY BOTH WANTED THE WELFARE CHECK they would get with the kids. It broke my heart that neither ever spoke of loving the children! **
😦
 
I was taught to look at the poor this way, if I can afford something and the other person cannot and I think that they should then they are poorer than I am. For example my father taught me the following and now I do the same with my son: when a young man goes out with his friends for ice cream, pizza or whatever his father gives him some extra money to cover the cost for a friend just in case the friend cannot afford it, the young man must realize that not everybody has the same privileges in life. I think that poverty is like pornography, you can recognize it when you see it even if you cannot describe it at this moment. I think that the true definition of poverty is only possible when we develop true compassion, whether it is intellectual or emotional.
👍 I really like this idea. I am adopting it. I love finding ways to be secretly charitable without getting puffed up about it. This is awesome and it teaches children the value of charity and how charitable acts can be practiced. Thanks Cristiano! 🙂
 
You could say I was raised poor. We had the basics food, shelter, education, and love. We received a gift from my parents on our birthday, and at Christmas. We were a family of ten. I was once given a hand me down pair of jeans that were too big, too long, and tied with a small cord/rope. When i complained my mother said. This is what i have for the next 6 weeks. I give it to you with love. If you want something nicer you may buy it your self. I asked around the neighborhood & was employed babysitting. I bought candy, pants & two tops! Was quite proud of myself. My parents always provided for us, but if you want luxury, or name brand, then it was buy it yourself. It teaches industriousness.
 
I don’t dispute that this is indeed a duty of all Catholics, but it begs the question: how do we define “poor”? Do we (Catholics) define poor in absolute terms (meaning that the same standard is used worldwide determine who or what constitutes “poor”) or a relative terms (meaning that the definition of poor is specific to a particular nation or region,

God bless,
Dean
Dean,

I suppose I define poor in BOTH absolute AND relative terms. Since most poor in this country (assuming you accept or can at least immagine poor in relative terms) have not been exposed to what absolute poverty is (nor have I ever seen or experienced it, only on TV) they don’t realize how good they have it being ‘poor’ in the USA.

And without ways to compare things to one another as a frame of reference I think it’s hard to understand certain concepts the same way you can when you have concrete frames of reference you experience first hand.

So, while I do believe there are poor people in the USA, their poverty could be considered fairly well off to poor starving people with no roof over their heads in 3rd world countries. This reminds me of when I worked in a shelter almost 20 years ago. There were a small group of guys who came from somewhere in either Central America or an island like Haiti, I forget exactly where they came from. Anyway, they were living in a homeless shelter in Boston and got 3 meals per day, clothing, bedding and a bed to sleep in, bathrooms with toilets that flushed, sinks to wash their clothes in, shower rooms to take showers, the availability to receive medical care if needed, etc. Now this group of guys used to spend their days in a public park drinking beer and then return to the shelter at night. In speaking to one of them one time I learned from him that he considered his life to be very decent, that he could survive (eat, place to sleep, stay out of the cold, etc) without even having to work. In his country there were people who worked and didn’t live as well as he did, or lived basically about the same as he did and they had to work full time to achieve that level of existance.

I remember this guy had a plan to go to Canada to try and get assylum. He had no money. I was perplexed as to how he planned to accomplish this. He looked at me with an expression as if it were of no problem whatsoever and ansered “walk”. I asked him how he would eat. “out of dumpsters, I’ll eat grass, whatever” and he was serious and he was not crazy. This gave me a new perspective on what being poor was.

But I also think of it in relative terms. If almost every single person in this country has a place to sleep with a roof over their heads and warmth in the cold weather, access to 3 meals per day, I would consider a person sleeping on the actual streets (or under bridges) to be poor. I would consider them poor even if they had access to shelters and knew this and were choosing to live under bridges. Some homeless in this country prefer to live outdoors rather than in shelters as you can’t bring alcohol into shelters. Some prefer to sleep under bridges or whatever so they can have their booze with them and drink it around the clock. They don’t have to put it away for the night before entering the shelter. These same people also have such an extreme problem dealing with authority figures and following any type of rules they consider living in shelters uncomfortably restrictive. And the rules in shelters are basically just that you can’t hit people and you can’t create big distrubances (someone yelling and screaming who wouldn’t stop would be sent out). Some people can’t stand standing in line with a tooth brush waiting their turn to get a little tooth paste put on their toothbrush so they can brush their teeth. Some can’t stand the order of standing in a line after waking in the morning (and having to get up and get out early in the morning) for morning breakfast. I consider these people to be poor even though they are ‘crazy poor’.

But I agree with you that REAL poverty is the type that exists in 3rd world countries where homeless children live in garbage dumps, scrounging and stealing to get food and prostituting themselves (like kids, like 9 year olds doing this, living in small packs) and sniffing glue all day as a way to cope with their horrible existance. Countries where people without families to take care of them, and who can’t take care of themselves, lie on sidewalks begging for money for food while everyone steps over them to walk by. And this probably includes people with serious health problems that are not receiving any real medical care for their illnesses.

But I have only heard about that poverty or seen it displayed on TV. Nevertheless, I also have compassion for the most poor of everyone who lives in the USA, the bottom .00001% or so. I consider them poor for sure as well, even if they have it better than most of the poor in 3rd world countries.

God Bless,
Bill
 
Hello! There have been many discussions as of late on CAF on our duty to help the poor. I don’t dispute that this is indeed a duty of all Catholics, but it begs the question: how do we define “poor”?

I define “poor” as meaning people who don’t have the basic requirements for survival, not as someone who doesn’t have as much non-essential “stuff” as the people around them.

This might seem like a remedial question, but I think it is important one, as it directly affects who we have an obligation to help, how we vote, how we donate money, etc. For example, I have seen many Catholics recently say that they are voting for a particular candidate because he/she is more willing to help the poor,

So, how do you define “poor”? Clearly, Jesus intended us to help the “absolute poor”, but is there any reason the believe that He intended us to help the “relative poor”? Also, is there some Church teaching on the subject that you know of which I wasn’t able to find?

God bless,
Dean
My understanding of “poor” from a Catholic perspective refers to a person who does not have the necessities of life AND/OR resources fitting for his station in life. We have a moral obligation to remedy that as best we can, and by the most proximate means that’s competent.

Now, that’s a principle, and what it means in practical terms is very difficult to precisely quantify, because situations, particularly one’s “station in life” can vary a lot.

For example, there is incredible poverty in Haiti. What are “necessities” in Haiti, given how poor the entire society is? Food in sufficient quantity and quality, obviously. Clothing sufficient for the tropics and enough changes in order to keep clean and modest, but that’s all. Medical care reasonable for Haiti, which is probably pretty basic by our standards. Housing that is perhaps not the best or even the middle, but adequate to keep out the rain, the sun and invaders. I have seen ads where, for $5,000 or so, one can finance the building of what would be a “dream house” for most people there. Three rooms large enough to sleep in, but not much more, concrete block walls, tin roof, concrete floor, and strong doors and windows. If transportation is needed for work, perhaps a bicycle. No shame in that in Haiti, particularly in rural areas where many cars can’t even go.

In the U.S., it would be different, but it would also be different from place to place in the U.S. I, for example, live in the Ozarks. Food is very inexpensive and can be obtained for little or nothing, depending on what you can do for yourself or who you know. Even without food stamps, people wouldn’t starve. Housing is easy to come by. It might not be the best, but I know of a small but entirely decent old country home in good repair that just rented for $300/month. Lots of places you can rent for $400. A luxury duplex is $750. You can often rent a “fixer-upper” for nothing at first, if you have skills and are willing to fix it up. All kinds of people, including doctors, bankers and lawyers wear jeans much of the time and many drive pickup trucks regardless of what they can afford. Factory workers wear jeans all the time. It is sometimes said here, not entirely as a joke, that the way you can tell a line worker from a millionaire is that the line worker’s pickup is newer. Everybody goes to the same schools. There is no “station in life” that demands very much. Extravagance is considered in poor taste, for the most part, particularly in the small towns. Employment is available to nearly anyone who can work and wants to. So, while many would fall into the category of “relatively poor”, their lives are not necessarily greatly different from people whose wealth is far greater than theirs. I am sure there are a lot of places in the U.S. that are the same. And in those places, truly “poor” would be a very straitened situation indeed, and remediation would not be terribly costly.

It would, I’m sure, be very different in, say, San Francisco or in any place that’s really expensive and where some neighborhoods are extremely dangerous to live in. In some places, jobs are hard to get. In city slum neighborhoods, I know food costs more than it does in the affluent suburbs; sometimes a lot more.

I don’t think there is a single “income” level that is appropriate for every person who, but for it, would be “poor”. Unfortunately, that’s something that is more difficult the farther removed from the individual the provider is. On the federal level, for instance, “welfare” to the truly poor that’s adequate might be one thing in one place and quite another in another place. Government doesn’t do a very good job of that and, because it’s big and cumbersome, tends to adopt “one size fits all” standards. To add to the problem, government tends to dispense its largesse politically. The current administration, for instance, has done essentially nothing for the truly poor and has done quite a bit to harm them. All of its programs are for the middle class, and it doesn’t do a very good job of doing that, as we are about to find out when Obamacare fully kicks in.

Very unfortunately, some people have made poor choices in their lives, like drug use, and it almost doesn’t matter what one does, one cannot remedy their situation. One can, however, largely remedy things for their children, which starts with taking them away from their parents.

So, while the principle I first mentioned is a “yardstick” of a sort, I don’t think it can be defined in monetary terms even in the U.S., let alone in a third world place like Haiti.

I doubt what I have said is of much help. Nevertheless, I am reasonably certain that the principle I first stated is the “Catholic position” about it.
 
Dean,

I suppose I define poor in BOTH absolute AND relative terms. Since most poor in this country (assuming you accept or can at least immagine poor in relative terms) have not been exposed to what absolute poverty is (nor have I ever seen or experienced it, only on TV) they don’t realize how good they have it being ‘poor’ in the USA.

And without ways to compare things to one another as a frame of reference I think it’s hard to understand certain concepts the same way you can when you have concrete frames of reference you experience first hand.

So, while I do believe there are poor people in the USA, their poverty could be considered fairly well off to poor starving people with no roof over their heads in 3rd world countries. This reminds me of when I worked in a shelter almost 20 years ago. There were a small group of guys who came from somewhere in either Central America or an island like Haiti, I forget exactly where they came from. Anyway, they were living in a homeless shelter in Boston and got 3 meals per day, clothing, bedding and a bed to sleep in, bathrooms with toilets that flushed, sinks to wash their clothes in, shower rooms to take showers, the availability to receive medical care if needed, etc. Now this group of guys used to spend their days in a public park drinking beer and then return to the shelter at night. In speaking to one of them one time I learned from him that he considered his life to be very decent, that he could survive (eat, place to sleep, stay out of the cold, etc) without even having to work. In his country there were people who worked and didn’t live as well as he did, or lived basically about the same as he did and they had to work full time to achieve that level of existance.

God Bless,
Bill
Bill,

Your post caused some introspection on my part, and it helped me understand why my view of poor is apparently different than what many here believe. My work has caused me to travel to various locales around the world, including some that would be considered third world countries. People there are TRULY poor, struggling to acquire the basic necessities of life – food, clean water, sanitation, clothing, and shelter. I wasn’t consciously aware of it during my original post, but I recall having strong feelings at the time that the “poor” back in the U.S. live like royalty compared to these folks. In addition, my travels have caused me to judge the “human condition” on more of a global level – regardless of nationality, religion, culture, etc – hence the reason I tend to view poverty in “absolute” terms.

Of course, this puts my view of the poor apparently at odds with many of the folks here. It’s not that I’m cold-hearted or uncaring (far from it!), but seeing “real poverty” makes it difficult for me to view many of what we consider poor in the United States as actually being poor. It seems to me that many of our “needs” are actually “wants”, and that we waste limited resources helping fulfill “wants” which should be going towards helping those in America (and possibly elsewhere) who are in more desperate need.

If my world view is wrong, I pray God will soften my heart and help me realize the error of my ways. In the mean time, I’m interested in hearing more of what you guys think! 😉

God bless,
Dean
 
In the U.S., it would be different, but it would also be different from place to place in the U.S. I, for example, live in the Ozarks. Food is very inexpensive and can be obtained for little or nothing, depending on what you can do for yourself or who you know. Even without food stamps, people wouldn’t starve. Housing is easy to come by. It might not be the best, but I know of a small but entirely decent old country home in good repair that just rented for $300/month. Lots of places you can rent for $400. A luxury duplex is $750. .
I have a few questions:

Is it immoral to make a living playing poker?
Where are the Ozarks?
Are there either a resonable number of home games where people are putting at least a few hundred bucks each on the table there or are their casino’s there or poker rooms (without casino’s as there are in some places in CA)?

Because this would solve many of my problems in a very short period of time potentially.

Rent where I live is $1,000 minimum downtown in the worst area’s of town, maybe $900, for a dump in the worst of worst area’s. Outside of the city prices do not drop below $1,100 for a 1BR apartment anywhere unless your getting close to the border of NH or in the boonies.
 
Perhaps this is a romantic notion, but I think of the song “Coat of Many Colors” by Dolly Parton, based on her own childhood experience of growing up in a family where money and material goods are scarce. “…one is only poor if they choose to be / although we had no money, I was rich as I could be…” in this case because what makes her feel rich is the love of her mother, symbolized in the coat, not in what other fancy things she has or doesn’t have.
 
The homeless and the hungry are poor by any standard.

A certain percentage of the homeless are so because they lack the mental discipline to live in community for any length of time. Others are homeless due to tragic turns in their lives. Between the government, churches, and charities we should provide enough living space for all who would accept the aid. That living space may be spartan but it should be dry, warm, with adequate bathrooms.

The hungry should always be fed. Period. Especially the children. Again, in most communities in America, there are adequate sources of meals for those who will accept them.

While we know that we will always have the poor with us, I think it important to determine if we are just willing to maintain the poor in their state or are we committed to providing ways for them the work their way up out of poverty.

Virtually of us who are somewhat successful realize that it took consistent personal effort over an extended period of time (years) to make it. Most of us needed encouragement. Most of us needed financial support one way or the other. But first, we had to personally believe we could do better for ourselves if we but made consistent effort and asked for and accepted the help that is available.

We do have a moral duty to help the poor and help them rise out of poverty. If we cannot help directly, face to face, then at least we can support those who are on the front lines. To the degree possible, each of us should contribute MONTHLY to at least one local and one international charity. On the international level, I personally recommend FOOD FOR THE POOR and the CATHOLIC RELIEF SERVICES. On the local level, the St Vincent De Paul Society is always a good choice.
 
I have a few questions:

Is it immoral to make a living playing poker?
Where are the Ozarks?
Are there either a resonable number of home games where people are putting at least a few hundred bucks each on the table there or are their casino’s there or poker rooms (without casino’s as there are in some places in CA)?

Because this would solve many of my problems in a very short period of time potentially.

Rent where I live is $1,000 minimum downtown in the worst area’s of town, maybe $900, for a dump in the worst of worst area’s. Outside of the city prices do not drop below $1,100 for a 1BR apartment anywhere unless your getting close to the border of NH or in the boonies.
The Ozarks are located in Southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas and Eastern Oklahoma. Different segments of it have additional names, such as “The Boston Mountains” in part of Arkansas, and “The Ouachita Mountains” in Eastern Oklahoma. It’s a huge area, taken all together. Some of it is very lightly populated. Some of it (like where I live) is suprisingly well populated. The concentrated population area could be said to begin with Springfield, Mo on the East, extending to Fayetteville, Arkansas on the Southwest. That would include the resort area around Branson, Mo. and the main headquarters for some major companies like Tyson Foods, Walmart, Bass Pro, O’Reilley Automotive, Brown Derby.

I think it would be difficult to make a living playing poker morally. It’s one thing to win money in a “friendly” game. It’s another to win in a casino. The problem with most gambling is that the losers are sometimes people who can’t afford to lose.

there are, indeed, huge differences in the cost of living depending on where one lives in the U.S. There are also differences in the ways people can deal with it, depending on where one lives.
 
IMHO most of the posts here are from people who have never been in true want.

I pray that you continue to be so blessed and never have to walk in a mile in the shoes of the poor.
 
The homeless and the hungry are poor by any standard.

A certain percentage of the homeless are so because they lack the mental discipline to live in community for any length of time. Others are homeless due to tragic turns in their lives. Between the government, churches, and charities we should provide enough living space for all who would accept the aid. That living space may be spartan but it should be dry, warm, with adequate bathrooms.

The hungry should always be fed. Period. Especially the children. Again, in most communities in America, there are adequate sources of meals for those who will accept them.

While we know that we will always have the poor with us, I think it important to determine if we are just willing to maintain the poor in their state or are we committed to providing ways for them the work their way up out of poverty.

Virtually of us who are somewhat successful realize that it took consistent personal effort over an extended period of time (years) to make it. Most of us needed encouragement. Most of us needed financial support one way or the other. But first, we had to personally believe we could do better for ourselves if we but made consistent effort and asked for and accepted the help that is available.

We do have a moral duty to help the poor and help them rise out of poverty. If we cannot help directly, face to face, then at least we can support those who are on the front lines. To the degree possible, each of us should contribute MONTHLY to at least one local and one international charity. On the international level, I personally recommend FOOD FOR THE POOR and the CATHOLIC RELIEF SERVICES. On the local level, the St Vincent De Paul Society is always a good choice.
Thanks for the post! It sounds like we’re agreed on most aspects – we definitely have a duty to help provide basic needs to the poor, especially children and those that cannot physically/mentally provide for themselves (sorry if I neglected to mention this in my original post).

God bless,
Dean
 
If we are talking about the Catholic definition of ‘poverty’, that is far more substantive that a lack of material goods.

As Mother Thresea noted, the West has a greater and deeper poverty than the poor in India or Africa.

We suffer from a a spiritual poverty, that Mother Theresa noted “Your Poverty Is Greater Than Ours”

The lack of compassion, of selfless giving , of gratitude and more specifically, the lack of the Faith, is really a greater poverty than lack of material goods.

This is a great article that sums up the Catholic outlook on ‘poverty’

graphics.tudelft.nl/~rafa/pl/mtheresa.html

I have seen this myself. Just about every summer, I take my vacation time to go to rural Tanzania. Being in the IT industry, I help set up computer labs at some of the Catholic schools there. It’s how I can best help out with the talents God has given me.

The schools themselvs are mud brick with no electricity ( I have to bring generators for the computers). The houses are mud brick huts with grass roofs. Corrigated steel roof on the hut is pretty much the definition of ‘middle class’ there.

The average annual income is about $500 per year, and the health care in the villages is often the local priest or teacher and his\her first aid kit.

But they are FAR more rich than we are. They have a Faith, a sense of love and really a deeper happiness than I see in the States.

Having a mansion, servants and a yacht doesn’t mean you are rich, and living in a bare hut with not much more than a bowl of rice to eat doesn’t mean one is poor either.

From a Catholic perspective, ‘Rich’ and "Poor’ are best decribed in terms of the richness of Heaven, not necessarily the richness of Earth.
 
IMHO most of the posts here are from people who have never been in true want.

I pray that you continue to be so blessed and never have to walk in a mile in the shoes of the poor.
Thanks for the response. I understand your frustration, but know that my reason for asking these questions isn’t to “slam to poor”. Rather, one of the issues I was hoping to address was to figure out what level we should help the poor to ensure we are utilizing limited resources to the best of our abilities.

Perhaps a more pragmatic example would be beneficial… Let’s say that you have $50000 available and want to allocate it to help those in need in your community. For sake of discussion, let’s assume:
  • It costs $10000 to feed, house, and clothe a family for one year.
  • It costs $30000 to send one child to college.
  • It costs $10000 to provide some basic luxury items (e.g., computer, cell phone, television, cable TV service, etc) for one family.
In the above example, would it be better to feed/house/clothe five families for one year (but not providing college tuition and/or luxury items), or only assist one family to the fullest extent possible during the same period (i.e. feed/house/clothe the family, send one of their children to college, and provide them some luxury items)?

FWIW, I truly WISH their was a way to provide everything for everyone, but it simply isn’t possible when you’re dealing with limited resources. Perhaps someday this will change, but it’s what we’re stuck with at the moment.

God bless,
Dean
 
Yes there are limited resources and in a case where the options are to help on person go to college vs helping another have adequate food and shelter, obviously we pick food.

But in the US, do we really have limited means to help? Each of us individually do obviously, but there are enough well-off folks who are choosing to spend money on their own “desires” (above even “wants”) rather than spending on others’ needs.

The problem as I see it is not how to define “poor” but how to define “generosity”. I don’t think we (myself included) goes anywhere near the full definition of that word in our actions.
 
Thanks for the response. I understand your frustration, but know that my reason for asking these questions isn’t to “slam to poor”. Rather, one of the issues I was hoping to address was to figure out what level we should help the poor to ensure we are utilizing limited resources to the best of our abilities.

Perhaps a more pragmatic example would be beneficial… Let’s say that you have $50000 available and want to allocate it to help those in need in your community. For sake of discussion, let’s assume:
  • It costs $10000 to feed, house, and clothe a family for one year.
  • It costs $30000 to send one child to college.
  • It costs $10000 to provide some basic luxury items (e.g., computer, cell phone, television, cable TV service, etc) for one family.
In the above example, would it be better to feed/house/clothe five families for one year (but not providing college tuition and/or luxury items), or only assist one family to the fullest extent possible during the same period (i.e. feed/house/clothe the family, send one of their children to college, and provide them some luxury items)?

FWIW, I truly WISH their was a way to provide everything for everyone, but it simply isn’t possible when you’re dealing with limited resources. Perhaps someday this will change, but it’s what we’re stuck with at the moment.

God bless,
Dean
The problem is when folks want to donate/allocate to a charity,they then want to tell said charity how to manage donation. I don’t think this can be done in black and white and on a nice accounting ledger. Every person in need is different. every situation calls for something unique. When we try to fit them into a box we miss the big picture. When we try to allocate how our donation is used it is no longer a gift.

For instance, basic needs for ther poor…clothes, a warm coat, a nice turkey dinner dontated by some of our finest parishoners…A 6 year old child represents the poor is this scenario, buy him/her clothes, a warm coat, make her a plate of turkey, but also give her a little hope, joy, moment to remember.

I have worked for the Salvation Army in the past. The problem is people in those positions become callous over time and instead of recognizing this and stepping back or aside and allowing someone fresh to intervene, they insist on remaining, doing more harm than good. Then we start weighing what is best for the poor in our eyes, We pull out our accounting ledger, we begin to play GOD, because we know what is best for these wretched souls.

I will not put another dime into a red bucket. I will continue to support Giving trees and the like but I will not allow someone to dictate to me how my donation should be spent nor will I donate to a charity and insist they use my donation specifically.

Sorry after working with Christian charity organizations and seeing how those good Christian folks treated the “poor” I see things in a different light. People in those positions tend to forget that if we didn’t have the poor, whether they be poor by circumstance or from their own making, they wouldn’t have a job to come to everyday.

Sometimes people need a leg up not a lecture.
 
Hello! There have been many discussions as of late on CAF on our duty to help the poor. I don’t dispute that this is indeed a duty of all Catholics, but it begs the question: how do we define “poor”? Do we (Catholics) define poor in absolute terms (meaning that the same standard is used worldwide determine who or what constitutes “poor”) or a relative terms (meaning that the definition of poor is specific to a particular nation or region, based upon a person’s material possessions or income in relation to the other people in that area)?

I, for one, tend to take a more absolute approach to defining poor; I believe that “poor” should mean the same thing for someone in America as it does in sub-Saharan Africa. As such, I define helping the poor means ensuring that each person has access to things needed for survival, including: food, clean water, shelter, clothing, healthcare, and a basic level of education (reading, writing, math, etc). However, I don’t believe that helping the poor means providing access to things not necessary for survival. This includes: household appliances, automobiles, consumer electronics (e.g., computers, cell phones, etc), guarantee of higher education, guarantee of a “good job”, and luxury items (new clothing, jewelry, etc). In short, I define “poor” as meaning people who don’t have the basic requirements for survival, not as someone who doesn’t have as much non-essential “stuff” as the people around them.

This might seem like a remedial question, but I think it is important one, as it directly affects who we have an obligation to help, how we vote, how we donate money, etc. For example, I have seen many Catholics recently say that they are voting for a particular candidate because he/she is more willing to help the poor, but I have a hard time accepting this due to the fact that (under my definition of poor) very few poor people actually exist in the United States. With that said, I have an open mind on this subject and am willing to change my opinion.

So, how do you define “poor”? Clearly, Jesus intended us to help the “absolute poor”, but is there any reason the believe that He intended us to help the “relative poor”? Also, is there some Church teaching on the subject that you know of which I wasn’t able to find?

God bless,
Dean
Most those poor in the United States endure through relative poverty. But I think we should bear in mind that the United States today is mainly an urban population. Also bearing in mind “negative externalties.” I think it would be negligence on the part of city, state, and the federal governments to allow it’s impoverished citizens to fall into a hand-to-mouth existence.

Plus, the Church says the poor should earn enough income that they can also put a small portion aside for savings.

What many fiscal conservatives fall into the trap of is failing to recognize many consumer products today - like electronics - can be purchased at very inexpensive prices in the United States. Even used automobiles can be purchased as pretty cheap prices.

Fernand Braudel in his several volumes on capitalism (in the 1600’s I think?) points out that the poor will always eventually acquire what the rich had. And that being the case Braudel points out… luxury is what only the rich of a given era can afford.

Therefore, in the United States automobiles in an of themselves are not luxury items. However, certain brands of automobiles are luxury items. A 2012 European made Rolls Royce Phantom is an example. This brand of car is out of the reach of the American poor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Phantom_%282003%29

When table forks and table knives were first invented - some say they were invented in Italy - only the rich could afford them. They were thought so decadent by some Catholics and Protestants that both had preachers claim the rich who used them to eat would go to eternal damnation in hell. Today even the poor India and Brazil eat with forks and table knives. They are largely inexpensive (unless made out of precious metals).
 
The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread.
  • Blessed Mother Teresa
I myself am struggling as my parent-in-laws have used all their retirement money, live in a six bedroom/ five bathroom house with lots of acres, property in the mountains, free access to our house, and it still is not enough for them. My husband and I give half our earned salary, & they blow through it. Yet, they are always crying, my 15 year old car broke ( they have three cars ) and can’t live on social security. I mean they live twice as nice as me & my husband but are still starving for more. They’re also getting money from their other sons family. I’m tired of giving without receiving thanks or any visible sacrifice on their part … But then I must remember what Mother Teresa said and give my bitterness to God.

I myself find it easier to cure their hunger for bread than their hunger for love … But pray for the sake of our family, have mercy on our finances & the future of our children!!!
 
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